Predictions About Noth Amrican Protestantism,and the Intellect

[Stephen3141]

How measles tore through a remote West Texas city

Anti-vaccine activists seized on a deadly outbreak in Seminole, setting off a battle between fringe doctors and mainstream medicine.

www.nbcnews.com

Christians' view toward the intellect, can affect all sorts of areas of our lives.
Even though most Christians don't associate these sorts of everyday outcomes to
be associated with "philosophy" or one's "worldviews".

 

[Stephen3141]

Holocaust survivor who was burned in Boulder: 'We are better than this'

Two days after the attack on marchers calling for the return of Israeli hostages, Barbara Steinmetz, 88, says Americans should be kind and decent to one another.

www.nbcnews.com

Even though many of these acts of violence are done by people acting on their
own (and so should NOT be associated with orgazined groups that suport
lawless violence, ...

the spreading of common WORLDVIEWS

that allow and foster these types of really crazy conclusions (such as the
conspiracy theories about the non-existence of the holocaust, or racial
superiority conspiracy theories, ... damage thousands of lives in America
every year.

Christians should be talking about how the worldviews they embrace, may
or may not be compatible with Christian doctrine, and how they should be fostering
Christian worldviews that are compatible with Christian doctrine. This is not academic
"philosophy".

 

[Stephen3141]

Prediction #1...

America has tacitly trashed the Intellect so much now, in so my ways, that
it will take a conscious and public turn away from this "truthless truth"
view of reality (this worldview) to change direction.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I would assert that the intellect, at its core, is deductive logic.

Theologians, and apologists use deductive logic all ovr the place.

(I think that our failures to conect here, are because I take "philosophy, as the
very broad love of knowledge and wisdom. All that the Old Testament has to
say about pursuing knowledge and wisdom and insight and craftsmanship,
has to do with philosophy.

All the theology of the Paul, is hinged on the intellect, as it contemplates the
mysteries of God. It was the intellect, used by the Holy Spirit, that kept the
Church out of the Arian heresies, and all the 4th century pseudo-Christian
heresies of the early centuries....)

Intellect lead people to implement modalism spiritually while agreeing to the trinity on paper.

This hidden aspect of gnosticism is what causes the connection to vanish.

Nothing is wrong with having or using an intellect, but intellect alone is lacking.

 

[Stephen3141]

I agree, that there are are serious impediments, trying to use the intellect, alone,
to try to figure out what human life is all about.

 

[Stephen3141]

I would like a short definition of "intellect modalism".
I'm not sure if this is denominational language, or commonlingo used in some religious circles whan talking
about applying philosophy to eligion.

 

[Stephen3141]

Prediction #2...

America has tacitly trashed the Intellect so much now, ...

Even those channels (such as the news media) htat USED TO MAKE A
HABIT OF DEDICATING THEMSELVES TO GIVING OUT ONLY FACTS,
ARE OFTEN CAUGHT UP IN PROMOTING INTERPRETATIONS OF FACTS,
ALONG WITH VIDEOS OF "FACTS".

 

[Stephen3141]

PREDICTION #3

Although the news media (perhaps) would like to see itself as giving out
only pure facts, and doing objective analysis, this central place of the news media
has largely gone away, and has been replaced with "users" who seek out sources
of <whatever>, and treat those sources as if they were sources of truth.

This is a trend that is already well established.

That is where worldviews come into play.
That is why this thread is dealing with (many different) worldviews.
But, many Christians have not thought through their worldview (their
model of reality), and do not connect HOW the traditional news sources have changed,
and HOW Christians ought to view our shared reality (that is, what are the unique
insights that Christianity hs to offer, on how we view out shared reality).

The trend in secular American society (it IS difficult to nail down trends, or try to
make assertions about trends...) heavily involved different definitions of TRUTH,
which one Christians OUGHT TO BE USING, and how Christians OUGH to be
voewong the Bibl's presentation of "truth".

Note that even with a few variables, such as objective events, analysis from
different viewpoints, and claims to be speaking from one of a number of
worldviews of reality, involves many differet ACTUAL) positions.

For example the source of the analysis/presentation, has to be determined by
the person who is listening ot the analysis. Then the AUTHORITY of the analysis
(to do what it is claiming to do) has to be determined. Then the scope of information
that the source is using has to be determined. Then, if possible, the INTENTION of
the source of the "news"/information needs to be determined.
========== ==========

This is what the new Broadway live play on the news media, and their fear,
during the McCarthy "red fear" time in Amereica's history, is (trying to present.

This McCarthyism fear and oppression, should not be seen as independent
of the WORLDVIEW OF OUR SHARED REALITY, that hournalists of that time had,
self-seeking politicians of that time had, and the American "people" at that time
had.

Although the Amrican press likes to presnt itself as a pure source of news, with
pure motivation, the Christian worldview on what TRUTH is, and what out moral-ethical
OUGHT is, in relation to truth, goes much further and deeper than the secular definitions
and uses of "truth", and quite often CONDEMNS the secular use of the language of
presenting "truth".

This is one of the points that I make, in this thread.
========== ==========

Christians should never be afraid of doing critical fact checking.
The presentation of our shared reality that the Bible presents, will stand
up under fact checking. (I am not defending the method of Christian
fact checking here -- I am making an assertion that Christians should pursue
in other careful discussions...).

 

[Stephen3141]

(Sorry about the rampant spell checker that this browser imposes on me.
It has no idea what I am trying to say, because it does not understand
human language. I haope that you can rebuild what I am getting at in these
posts....)

 

[Stephen3141]

Prediction #4

Although this web site does not want me to use the cutting plane of
intellectual versus anti-intellectual, when evaluating the worldview that
different Christian groups and individuals use (and so I will not), the core
difference in many people's worldview hinges on WHAT they view the
intellect as, and HOW they conceive of a Christian properly using the intellect.

SO... (I assert) Christian groups will tend to migrate toward worldviews that
support or promote or tolerate only certain definitions of "truth", and only certain
definitions of worldviews that should legitimately be used by Christians.

This is a very central philosophical topic (Epistemology, and a couple other
philosophical disciplines), but indiidual Christians, and many Christian
groups have already committed themselves to specifiec (and often different) definitions
of "truth", and so, in American culture at large, are "migrating" to listen to
platforms giving out (or claiming to give out) definitions of truth, that make these Christians
feel good about their own opinions.
========== ==========

This "migration" of individual Christians, and Christian groups, has become
very accentuated, in the "news sources" that they listen to.

I would not say that the "new source preferences" have become the new definition
of different Christian denominations (appeals are still made to different theologies),
HOWEVER as in many groups, Christian catechism has almost collapsed, there seems
to be a new replacement of it by preferred news sources. (I know that that may sound
VERY STRANGE, but in the electonic screen generations, who read almost nothing,
are often (I assert) biblically illiterate, and whose "information intake flow" has collapsed
down almost entirely to "news" sources and entertainment, "theology" tends to be
becoming irrelevant (I KNOW haw RADICAL that sounds...).
========== ==========

The trend is to find a place to fit in, which will coddle a person's sense of "truth", no matter
how "fringy" their worldview is, and no matter how incompatible their worldview is with
what the Bible presents as our shared reality.

I predict that more and more, "denominations" will be replaced (functionally) with "news"
source preferences. And, under the surface, with very different definitions of truth
and reality,

 

[Stephen3141]

Prediction #5

When the Aposlte talks about "seek the higher gifts" of the Holy Spirit,
this will trend toward discarding these gifts. This is because this is a value
difference judgment, and tends to condemn ANYONE'S AND EVERYONE'S
DEFINITION OF THE GIFTS THAT COME FROM GOD. That is, the definition
of the higher gifts, does not come from an individual's opinion, but comes from
God. And because the definition of htese gifts come from God, and cannot
be "redefined" to please individuals, these fixed parts of Christianity will be
under attack sooner.

This also means that an elder's gift of being able to teach (if they have
that gift) will be discarded, as the ability to teach also includes the
knowledge of what are NOT the higher gifts (such as deeply appreciating
"diverse" food types...) etc. That is, much of what modern Americans
see as their "identity" and their "calling" and their "authority" relay not
on biblical standards, but on peronal or merely denominational or
merely congregtional preferences of what is meaningul in life.
========== ==========

This, again, is a trend/prediction that cuts across very different sorting
planes, than traditional and historic categories used to sort/label
theologies.

The trend is toward "Kermit the Frog" theologies ("Everyone is beautiful, in their
own way..."). But this mangling of theology with what we "identify with" has gone so far
in America, that if a person does not like historic, orthodox Christian teaching, they are
increasingly seen as not have moved around enough, to find their "theologcal news source"
that coddles their private preferences enough.

(The opposite argument is made by congregations/individuals that reject historical,
core Christian doctrines, that individuals who have a theological problem with the
congregation have not been "enlightened" enough by the grand Kermit theology
that the person doing the claiming, has been persuaded is the true theological news
source (that puts all of reality in the proper worldview). NOTE that ANY theology can
attempt to use this argument, to JUSTIFY itself.)

 

[Stephen3141]

Prediction #6

Although this thread is NOT about politics, I think that the Protestant
religious groups that are least familiair with the long history of the Church's
intellectual history, will be MOST attracted to the political figures that have
already abandoned other areas in intellectual achievements (in secular culture).

Those who are LEAST famililiar with the Church's long history of intellectual
achievements, will br MOST attracted toward emotional arguments, and conspiracy
theories and will be MOST averse toward rigorous fact checking.

 

[Stephen3141]

(I have posted much about a Christian's need to ber very clear as to
what the Bible presents as "our shared reality" -- to use a phrase I made up.)

It is crucial for Christians to be living out their faith in the shared reality, that
the Bible presents to us.

Some quotes that deal wth this subject...

The souce is a copyrighted book that deals with , among other things, with
what the Bible presents as our shared reality, or just, REALITY.

[CHRISTIAN LOGIC]. Christian Logic, Stephen Wuest, 2024, Christian Faith
Publishing, $34. 584 pages
********** **********

"Assertions that are TRUE make up (descriptions of) our shared reality."
[Christian Logic, 384]

"It is the process of deciding which propositions are TRUE that flavors much of Christian reasoning."
[Christian Logic, 384]

"We can say that what it TRUE is what is real. And what is real is in our shared reality."
[Christian Logic, 384]

"In reality, we appeal to dozens of sources of authorities when we make assertions.
We rank these (supposed) authorities in ways that happen to please us or in ways
that we have decided to live by or in ways that match our best inderstanding of reality."
[Christian Logic, 386]

"How we determine the authority of an assertion and the hierarchy of authorities
that we each recognize heavily affect whether or not we accept an assertion as TRUE."
[Christian Logic, 386]

"Many of the divisons among Christian groups are due to their embracing of concepts
of our shared reality that are not the same. And, the processes by which each group
allows an assertion to be considered as part of our shared reality(or not) happen to be different."
[Christian Logic, 386]

23 viewpoints from which a person may consider what our shared reality is. These include
both Christian and non-Christian viewpoints.
[Christian Logic, 386-389]

"Until specific Christian groups deal with the topic of the hierarchy of authority
that was accepted by early, orthodox Christianity, they will be continually
differing over what the definition of our shared reality it, and what axioms and
rules ought to be included in the assumptions part of logical proofs."
[Christian Logic, 389]

"Christian groups that do not accept that valid reasoning methods are part of our
shared reality have already undercut many sound principles in critical Bible study skills."
[Christian Logic, 390]

 

[Stephen3141]

Prediction #7

Christians (and Protestant Christians) who still talk about "rhetorical fallacies"
are using an older form of logic, which is fused with rhetoric. The older rhetorical
fallacies are not COMPLETE (they are NOT any sort of complete system of logic),
and are SUBSUMED into the newer symbolic logic.

On the other hand, Christians who talk about "rhetorilcal fallacies" do not understand
the newer (COMPLETE) system of formal logic, and will tend to misunderstand
that it is almost impossible to test whether or not many of these older rhetorical
fallacies are true, when someone claims that they are.

So, Christians who talk about rhetorical fallacies, tend fo correlate with people
who do not understand modern deductive logic.
[Christian Logic, 393-401]

 

[Stephen3141]

Some more thoughts to ponder, while you are thinking about the predictions
about Protestants and the Intellect...

A lot of the doctrinal questions about the canon of Scripture, revolve around
a question of who/what is an AUTHORITY in God's People. (After all, the
canon of Scripture was decided by leaders in God's People, and was NOT
fixed at the end of the first century. But, the AUTHORITY of those who made
this decision about which books would be in the canon, were subject to
considerations of what AUTHORITY they had to make such a huge decision.
This drags the Appeal to Authority argument back into the core doctrines of
the People of God. It would probably be more apt to talk about "the authority
of the Apostles" then to initially appeal to the authority of Scripture.
[Christian Logic, 396]

"Christians often appeal to the place of tradition in doctrine. This is the teaching that
has been handed down from the apostles. This is not a logical fallacy.

The authority of the apostles does not rest on a mere claim that they are 'authorities'
on matters of the faith. There is a history of their direct contact with Jesus, and
this history includes their receiving of the teachings of Jesus."
[Christian Logic, 399]

"Be careful what you call a 'logical fallacy'."
[Christian Logic, 397

"Note that a lot of modern conspiracy theories involve the Appeal to
Authority" fallacy.
[Christian Logic, 399]

Many of the controversial conspiracy theories involve, at heart, an appeal to authority,
that the Bible does not make or support.
[Christian Logic, 402]

 

[Stephen3141]

Another aside...

Although this is not a thread about politics, I assert that the current political
trends in America are heavily affected by the worldview (views of reality)
that the different political gorups are appealing to.

And, as far as the political groups and their candidates DO appeal to different
views and uses of the intellect, we will be seeing the "political" actions
we will be seeing different views of the Intellect lived out in the political fights
that are going on now, in America.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Another aside...

Although this is not a thread about politics, I assert that the current political
trends in America are heavily affected by the worldview (views of reality)
that the different political gorups are appealing to.

And, as far as the political groups and their candidates DO appeal to different
views and uses of the intellect, we will be seeing the "political" actions
we will be seeing different views of the Intellect lived out in the political fights
that are going on now, in America.

Uh, Stephen, what you describe as "the problem" has always been the problem in the U.S., ever since its prior Colonial Days. Why should we expect it to be any different today or that it will clear up like a case of acne?

 

[Stephen3141]

(Every once in a while I return to "worldviews", and its importance for
Christian, becue there are still many Christians in North America who do
not believe that philoosphical topics like "worldview" have anything to do
with Christianity....)

 

[Stephen3141]

(By the way, the "journalists" who are trying to defend their profession --
there is some nobility in this -- often have engaged in an interpretaiton of
"journalism" that sets a scene, but then goes on to speculate wildly about
what someone or some [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ry is about to do.

Speculation, is not journalism.

And for Christians, speculation promotes conspiracy theories, and gossip.
It is not what Christians should be doing.)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

(Every once in a while I return to "worldviews", and its importance for
Christian, becue there are still many Christians in North America who do
not believe that philoosphical topics like "worldview" have anything to do
with Christianity....)

For some of us, worldview studies are relevant, even if they are not the epitome of analytic categories.