LDS why is the BOM in King James English

Peter1000

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No, they have not. Outside of mormon apologetics and their attempts of "possibly", "could have", "likely" bogus links to evidence, no credible scientist would confirm the people of the BOM existed. From genetics to linguistics to archaeology, among others, you have nothing to support the BOM.

The problem with you, Peter, is you say you have evidence, but you won't present it. All you have is a make believe story that you wish were true.
JS said that the BOM people came by ship from the middle east. He was laughed to scorn for 150 years. Now, there is overwhelming evidence from science outside of the LDS religion that confirms that many ancients did come from different places in the world to the Americas, even by ship over the high seas.
Science, non-LDS science confirms what JS said 150 years ago. Did he guess it right, or was he just lucky? I believe he was told these things from God, having no foreknowledge of these things, being from upstate New York, with a 3rd grade education, and no access to how people came to Central and North America. And this is just one of 25 different non-LDS scientific confirmations that JS has recieved posthumously. It is quite remarkable.
 
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BigDaddy4

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JS said that the BOM people came by ship from the middle east. He was laughed to scorn for 150 years. Now, there is overwhelming evidence from science outside of the LDS religion that confirms that many ancients did come from different places in the world to the Americas, even by ship over the high seas.
Science, non-LDS science confirms what JS said 150 years ago. Did he guess it right, or was he just lucky? I believe he was told these things from God, having no foreknowledge of these things, being from upstate New York, with a 3rd grade education, and no access to how people came to Central and North America. And this is just one of 25 different non-LDS scientific confirmations that JS has recieved posthumously. It is quite remarkable.
LOL. You're so funny. Of course there is evidence people sailed to the Americas from different parts of the world. I'm sure JS had SOME historical knowledge of how America became America - things like "In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue", Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, etc. Now, for your religious history to be correct, you need to demonstrate that the people of the BOM actually did sail the high seas and landed in the Americas in the time frame that your hero JS says they did. Present some actual historical evidence to provide that link and then I may be impressed. Until then, just a poorly written fairy tale.
 
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mmksparbud

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He did teach that his God and Father had a Father, you will just not listen to your scriptures.

Ok, that may be so. but Mary was no longer a young woman, she was pregnant, but she was still a virgin. I believe what the doctors of the Jews were doing was putting a difference between a "young woman", and a "virgin", so as to negate the virgin birth, so as to negate Jesus. And for most of their people, they succeeded.

It's not arguable, it is just my opinion.

No!! God clearly said,

Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

It is JS that has put words into the mouth of God. For that, He will pay dearly. You are listening to the wrong scriptures.

The Greek says virgin. the prophecies in the OT in Hebrew was virgin. A yo0ung maiden would have been an unmarried female, young--which would have meant virgin. What doctors would have changed the Hebrew of the OT? Only Jewish scribes would be writing the OT under very strict rules, they could not change a word---the Dead Sea Scrolls have the entire book of Isaiah---99.9% right on, word for word. No Jewish scribe would have touched a NT book!
 
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Ironhold

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That's just the problem, you think they are just anti-Mormon propaganda. I've never heard of Phiastus Hurlbut. Not a name I would forget! I'm just going by what JS wrote and what the bible says, and what the courts had to say. I did read about the Spaulding manuscript. The bible is intact and always has been. During the middle ages it was hidden, that's for sure,. but not corrupted. There were always a remnant that God kept safe and who always kept His word safe. As far as I'm concerned, It was not an angel from God.

Hurlbut was the real author behind the book "Mormonism Unveiled", which is generally regarded as the first full-length anti-Mormon work.

Hurlbut had been a member of the church, but was thrown out for conduct unbecoming. He'd been accepted back, but was given the boot a second time when it was discovered that he hadn't actually changed his ways.

Hurlbut had a nasty habit of externalizing his problems, and so saw the church as the guilty party rather than he himself. In truth, his reputation in the Illinois and Missouri area was such that even people who didn't like the church also didn't exactly like him. After all, he'd actually been arrested after a drunken tirade in which he threatened to wash his hands in JS' blood.

Hurlbut's author, a man named Howe, accepted Hurlbut's work for publication and put his own name on it as the author in order to avoid Hurlbut's poor reputation. Had it been published under Hurlbut's real name, the work would have been immediately challenged by all but the most hard-core haters and could have potentially ended up strengthening the church's arguments by showing how Hurlbut had resorted to getting illiterate people to sign pre-written affidavits.
 
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Peter1000

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Yes, However, as I said---back then a young woman was a virgin. That has a totally different connotation today. So, did the word change meaning, or did the culture change? In this case, it's a different culture that brings about a different meaning. That is why things need to be taken in the meaning of that time and culture that the writer had in mind.
"
I would like to discuss the term "young woman" based on Hebrew of 1,000bc.

Just a couple of questions:
1) how old was a woman in 1,000bc before they stopped calling her a "young woman", and just called her a "woman"?
2) were all "young women" in 1,000bc "virgins"?
3) was it possible that some "young women" in the "young women" age group, not be "virgins"?
4) was it usual to call a woman that gave birth to a child a "young woman" (not being a virgin for 9 months)?

Just thinking?
 
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Peter1000

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No!! God clearly said,

Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

It is JS that has put words into the mouth of God. For that, He will pay dearly. You are listening to the wrong scriptures.

The Greek says virgin. the prophecies in the OT in Hebrew was virgin. A yo0ung maiden would have been an unmarried female, young--which would have meant virgin. What doctors would have changed the Hebrew of the OT? Only Jewish scribes would be writing the OT under very strict rules, they could not change a word---the Dead Sea Scrolls have the entire book of Isaiah---99.9% right on, word for word. No Jewish scribe would have touched a NT book!
Do the DSS say "virgin" or "young maiden" in the Isaiah verse?
 
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Peter1000

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LOL. You're so funny. Of course there is evidence people sailed to the Americas from different parts of the world. I'm sure JS had SOME historical knowledge of how America became America - things like "In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue", Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, etc. Now, for your religious history to be correct, you need to demonstrate that the people of the BOM actually did sail the high seas and landed in the Americas in the time frame that your hero JS says they did. Present some actual historical evidence to provide that link and then I may be impressed. Until then, just a poorly written fairy tale.
Well of course even non-scientific people know that people sailed to the Americas in 1492, this is not a challenge. But to say that people sailed to the Americas in 2200bc, and 590bc, and 580bc is to challenge the very fabrication of the scientific world that knew nothing more than people populated the Americas in one way and one way only, by the Bering Straite.
That is why they laughed so heartily at JS, only to find 150 years later, the text books all have to be changed because science has had to change its long standing theme of how the Americas were populated, and include ocean crossings from far off lands.

This is a scientific fact described by JS and confirmed by non-LDS scientists, but you still just laugh. You are right, we have to link that crossing with BOM people. But first we have to have science acknowledge that what JS said could be true. We have reached that first step, science now confirms ancient sea crossings.

In the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City there is a wonderful pictorial tapestry
on the wall depicting the first people that came to Mexico. They are said to be coming out of 7 caves in the water, and turtles are bringing them to shore on their backs.
JS said that the Olmecs came to the Americas in 8 barges, (like 8 caves moving through the waters) which landed near the shores of Mexico around 2200bc. We can make a case that those 8 caves in the water, were actually the barges that the BOM people came over the waters in. The description of these barges would be just like a cave moving through the waters. Read it.
Ether 2:16-17
16 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the instructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water. Now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight.
i

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

I am willing to associate this crossing, and the landing of these 8 barges (caves) to the caves in the water on the tapestry in the museum at Mexico City. So I believe this tapestry links BOM people to the history of Mexico.

If you think about it, it makes sense. The flood was around 2300bc, and a short time after the flood was the tower of Babel built. This all happened in the middle east. Was there people in Mexico yet, since the flood? NO! So read how the Lord brought people to the Americas after the flood.
Ether 1:33
Which Jared came forth with his brother and their families, with some others and their families, from the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people,
i
and swore in his wrath that they should be scattered upon all the face of the earth; and according to the word of the Lord the people were scattered.
Ether 1:38
And it came to pass that Jared spake again unto his brother, saying:

“Go and inquire of the Lord whether he will drive us out of the land, and if he will drive us out of the land, cry unto him whither we shall go. And who knoweth but the Lord will carry us forth into a land which is choice above all the earth? And if it so be, let us be faithful unto the Lord, that we may receive it for our inheritance.

So from the tower of Babel did these BOM people come around 2200bc and landed in Mexico and populate this land. The first people since the flood. Science calls them Olmec. The BOM call them Jaredites. Interesting story and the tapestry link is interesting. It is something to think about.
 
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mmksparbud

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"
I would like to discuss the term "young woman" based on Hebrew of 1,000bc.

Just a couple of questions:
1) how old was a woman in 1,000bc before they stopped calling her a "young woman", and just called her a "woman"?
2) were all "young women" in 1,000bc "virgins"?
3) was it possible that some "young women" in the "young women" age group, not be "virgins"?
4) was it usual to call a woman that gave birth to a child a "young woman" (not being a virgin for 9 months)?

Just thinking?

When she married
It was considered so unless proven otherwise
Of course
depends on whether she was married or not
From what I can gather, anyway.
Why the intense interest?
 
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Peter1000

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When she married
It was considered so unless proven otherwise
Of course
depends on whether she was married or not
From what I can gather, anyway.
Why the intense interest?
It is because Mary was a "young woman" that was not a "virgin". She was married and pregnant, yet the Jews insist on calling her a "young woman or maiden" and completely cover up the point that she as a "virgin" gave birth to the Son of God. That is why.

You just seem to be OK with her being called a "young woman or maiden", which gave birth to the Son of God. She was not, according to your definition.
 
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mmksparbud

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It is because Mary was a "young woman" that was not a "virgin". She was married and pregnant, yet the Jews insist on calling her a "young woman or maiden" and completely cover up the point that she as a "virgin" gave birth to the Son of God. That is why.

You just seem to be OK with her being called a "young woman or maiden", which gave birth to the Son of God. She was not, according to your definition.

I don't expect non-believing Jews to believe that anyone ever gave birth to anyone while being a virgin. That would make the child God---and we can't have that, now can we? The wording may have been changed after Jesus death. I can't find where they did so before Him. However, they did not expect the Messiah to be born of a virgin either, so maybe they never used that term when indicating verses to be interpreted to being the Messiah. It's for sure that they refused to acknowledge a virgin birth ever happened, they have to, or admit they are wrong!! Gasp!!
 
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Peter1000

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I don't expect non-believing Jews to believe that anyone ever gave birth to anyone while being a virgin. That would make the child God---and we can't have that, now can we? The wording may have been changed after Jesus death. I can't find where they did so before Him. However, they did not expect the Messiah to be born of a virgin either, so maybe they never used that term when indicating verses to be interpreted to being the Messiah. It's for sure that they refused to acknowledge a virgin birth ever happened, they have to, or admit they are wrong!! Gasp!!
You are correct. I still think it interesting that they would actually change their own scripture to cover up the virgin birth prophecy by Isaiah.
 
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