Why is it OK to indoctrinate children?

[DingDing]

Nice swerve.

So does that mean you now understand, or that you continue to refuse to understand?

 

[RDKirk]

At 5 years old, a succinct "because it is wrong" should suffice.

Except that Nihilist Virus had already discounted "because it is wrong" as "indoctrination."

Failing that, the threat of going to jail should work.

Is that like being sent to my room? My son had a fertile imagination--sending him to his room would merely leave him to fight dinosaurs and other monsters. Besides, he was confident I'd protect him from everyone regardless what he did, and simply didn't believe me if I said I wouldn't (and it was good that he had that faith in me at that age).

Kids can and do grow up to be moral beings without religion. As I said above, when you remove the outer governor on behavior and develop SELF control (which is one of those "fruit of the spirit) things, you don't need an outside push not to behave a certain way.

As a certain kind of morality, yes. But the point is: Were the basics of that morality the result of the child's own intellect, or does every parent not indoctrinate morality initially with "because I said so?"

 

[DingDing]

I think you know what a swerve is.

And that means that you refuse to accept what God has stated?!

 

[DingDing]

I think you know what a swerve is.

So explain to me your understanding of Romans 1.

 

[DingDing]

I refuse to believe the interpretation of a complete stranger on a forum. But it's ok, you can carry on with telling me I'm a terrible person. I'm used to godly people behaving that way.

So, rather than playing the victim, why don't you explain your understanding of Romans 1?

 

[DingDing]

Nope.

Ah! So you have no understanding of this passage. That explains much, in my opinion.

 

[RDKirk]

Do that many 5 year olds actually ask why they can't murder people?

More likely:

"Why did you bite Johnny?
"Johnny said I was a gooby."
"You can't bite Johnny for saying you're a gooby.
"Why can't I bite him? It made him stop calling me a gooby."
"Because biting is wrong."

Now, whatever right to social repercussion I might use to explain follow the biting of Johnny, that will equate in a 5-year-old's mind--morally by his rationale--the same right he has to exact repercussion on Johnny for calling him a gooby. Why does anyone else have a right of repercussion that he does not have? What makes him wrong and society right?

 

[DingDing]

I am not answerable to you. Move on.

God was here long before you were. You might think you are smart, but at some point you will have to deal with what God has said.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Ah! So you have no understanding of this passage. That explains much, in my opinion.

No, what it actually explains is that she is refusing to play a holier than thou game with a complete stranger on the internet.

 

[DingDing]

*ignored*

And I know that you looked at this, and God says that you can't "ignore" Him for ever.

 

[Hetta]

More likely:

"Why did you bite Johnny?
"Johnny said I was a gooby."
"You can't bite Johnny for saying you're a gooby.
"Why can't I bite him? It made him stop calling me a gooby."
"Because biting is wrong."

Now, whatever right to social repercussion I might use to explain follow the biting of Johnny, that will equate in a 5-year-old's mind--morally by his rationale--the same right he has to exact repercussion on Johnny for calling him a gooby. Why does anyone else have a right of repercussion that he does not have? What makes him wrong and society right?

Okay, well that's a little more something I can get with. But then there are parents who encourage their children to retaliate, and I don't know where I stand on that. If my kid was being pushed around, I don't know that I'd tell him/her to turn the other cheek. And that is how our society works.

 

[Tallguy88]

Alright people. Please read this relevant part of the SOP for this forum and abide by it, or else the thread may be shut down or you may get booted from it. Bold part especially:

"This is a forum where non-Christian Seekers are encouraged to ask questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept, and where Christians can enter into discussion with them on these questions. The primary focus of this forum is Christian evangelism and discipleship, not to debate Christian Theology or challenge, attack, or argue against, Christianity. If any non-Christian member would like to challengeChristianity, they may do so in theChristian Apologetics forum. Please readand agree with this thread before posting in the Christian Apologetics forum."

 

[civilwarbuff]

Nah. Read Ephesians 2. Everyone is told/taught/ indoctrinated in that and other things - they don't get to make it up.

Except when they do make it up......regardless of what scripture says since atheists don't believe in scripture......

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Except when they do make it up......regardless of what scripture says since atheists don't believe in scripture......

YHWH NEVER said they believed anything.
Even we were all once dead because of sins and disobedience.
WE "THOUGHT" we had free will and were making our own choices, but WE weren't... until...
Ephesians 2Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
2 You used to be dead because of your sins and acts of disobedience. 2 You walked in the ways of the ‘olam hazeh and
obeyed the Ruler of the Powers of the Air, who is still at work among the disobedient. 3 Indeed, we all once lived this way — we followed the passions of our old nature and obeyed the wishes of our old nature and our own thoughts. In our natural condition we were headed for God’s wrath, just like everyone else.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It scares me that so many Christians seem to believe that if the Bible didn't tell them that murder was wrong, then it would be okay to murder.

I followed the links backwards from the last one to find this post.

Yes, it is even sadder that many 'christians' say the BIBLE says murder is wrong,
THEY BASICALLY ALL TEACH THEIR CHILDREN murder is wrong;

and they still think it is okay that they themselves often murder and/or approve of murder !
That is very confusing (or purposefully deceiving) by them to the world.

And the children are indoctrinated with this kind of contradictory behavior. --- one generation after another does this same thing.

 

[dzheremi]

It scares me that so many Christians seem to believe that if the Bible didn't tell them that murder was wrong, then it would be okay to murder. So tell me why are people in non-Christian countries not just murdering each other in the street as they don't have that "framework"? Shouldn't everyone in China be dead by now? And yet the murder rate in China is 5 times lower than that of the US. No Bible but less murder. Hmmmm.

I understand and agree with your point, but at the same time that view of China could use some updating. The Bible and Christianity are both quite popular in China, though of course Christianity remains a small minority religion there.

It's pretty interesting...looking at intentional homicide rates by country, you have to get pretty far down into the list before you get to any country that is not majority-Christian (the first such country is the aforementioned Myanmar, which is ranked 28th in the world with 15.2 homicides/1,000; by comparison, the very Christian Honduras is #1, with 84.6). The United States (~70% Christian) ranks 108th with 3.9, which is the same rate as Iran (a Shia-majority Islamic Republic), Thailand (a Buddhist-majority kingdom), and the Maldives (a Sunni-majority republic).

I don't think that there's anything that can be generalized about such a religiously and politically heterogeneous group of countries that could explain their identical homicide rates, so perhaps the safest thing to say is that the religious identity of the person who commits murder may vary, but so long as there are societal deterrents that promote life and discourage murder, then that should matter more than what religious influence or lack thereof that people point to as providing that deterrent. Another interesting thing shown by that list is that the world's most irreligious country (China; ~90% irreligious) and one of the few countries where it is illegal to be an atheist (Saudi Arabia) both have the same homicide rate (0.8/1,000).

 

[Nihilist Virus]

In the case of Christianity, if we do not teach our children, who will?

The Holy Spirit.

 

[chilehed]

Then either you don't bother to look or to listen. It's really very simple. I am a person, you are a person. As such, you deserve the same respect I do...and your race, belief (or lack), sexual orientation, gender identification, immigration status don't matter.

I listen quite well. The issue isn't that we come to the same conclusion, the issue is the basis on which our conclusions are reached.

 

[chilehed]

It scares me that so many Christians seem to believe that if the Bible didn't tell them that murder was wrong, then it would be okay to murder...

I've never encountered a Christian who seemed to believe anything like that. If you got that from something I said, then you weren't listening very closely.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The Holy Spirit.

While I agree with the general notion that the Holy Spirit is supposed to play some role in the propagation of the Christian tradition as a handful of the things the writers of the New Testament suggests, I would also say that they don't discount that a portion of the role of the Holy Spirit is to be dispensed through the various gifts and agencies of the Church.

Hence, Christian parents, like Jewish parents of old, are a part of God's collective people, and are therefore charged with delivering some portion of God's "info" to the children.