Why is it OK to indoctrinate children?

[RedPonyDriver]

This was your original statement that I disagreed with:

But I've never heard any atheist provide a good, internally consistent reason for holding that murder is wrong, or even a way for atheism to provide a framework in which the terms "right" and "wrong" have any meaning whatsoever.

I answered you with:
Then either you don't bother to look or to listen. It's really very simple. I am a person, you are a person. As such, you deserve the same respect I do...and your race, belief (or lack), sexual orientation, gender identification, immigration status don't matter.

Then you moved the goalposts:

I listen quite well. The issue isn't that we come to the same conclusion, the issue is the basis on which our conclusions are reached.

So now you are talking about the basis of the conclusions? You make no sense whatsoever here.

My internal idea of respecting the other is what makes me think that killing people is wrong (I'm also against war and the death penalty). It's also the reason that I don't think being a lawless hoodlum is a great idea either.

However, "Christians" think that people who are not "bible-believing Christians" have absolutely NO internal moral compass or that we "hate" God, or all that other baloney you get told from the pulpit.

Honestly, God is not my problem, his alleged followers are. I find them, in general, not the kind of folks I like to hang out with...again, I don't need some outside governor on my behavior. It's called self-control, something that a lot of people need to develop and stop trying to enforce "other-control". You work on you, I'll work on me. My religious beliefs, or lack thereof are not what makes me attempt to live an upstanding life.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

That's humanism indoctrination (by the definition earlier I think). It is contrary to Christianity and opposed to what the BIBLE says throughout.

Humanism opposes racism, sexism, genocide, mass murder, rape, and slavery if that's what you mean.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Humanism opposes racism, sexism, genocide, mass murder, rape, and slavery if that's what you mean.

But, but, but...same sex marriage and killing the baybeez...can't have that...but racism, sexism, war and slavery is just fine....and GUNZ!!! MUST HAVE THE GUNZ....

Yeah, I don't get it either....

 

[Nihilist Virus]

So why is it wrong for me to murder Johnny? I doubt you can provide an explanation that fits into a 5-year-old's understanding of the world.

If you make a morality thread in the apologetics forum and send me the link I'd be happy to participate.

 

[redleghunter]

It scares me that so many Christians seem to believe that if the Bible didn't tell them that murder was wrong, then it would be okay to murder. So tell me why are people in non-Christian countries not just murdering each other in the street as they don't have that "framework"? Shouldn't everyone in China be dead by now? And yet the murder rate in China is 5 times lower than that of the US. No Bible but less murder. Hmmmm.

Romans 2 should answer any detractors.

Backing up to Matthew 5 sets the bar way High.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Bible and Christianity are both quite popular in China, though of course Christianity remains a small minority religion there.

How can some group that is a small minority religion anywhere be called quite popular there ?

I am aware that unauthorized (underground persecuted 'secret')(they are killed if found) assemblies in china are doing very well, millions of house assemblies , the fastest growing numbers of autonomous assemblies in the world;
but they and the GOSPEL and the BIBLE are NOT POPULAR in the usual sense of the word.

 

[redleghunter]

Humanism opposes racism, sexism, genocide, mass murder, rape, and slavery if that's what you mean.

What is the position of humanism with regards to death by abortion?

 

[redleghunter]

If you make a morality thread in the apologetics forum and send me the link I'd be happy to participate.

If you make a thread in the exploring Christianity forum I will respond....wait a minute...Just checked....this is exploring Christianity and somehow the thread OP and discussion has turned into "deploring Christianity."

 

[redleghunter]

But, but, but...same sex marriage and killing the baybeez...can't have that...but racism, sexism, war and slavery is just fine....and GUNZ!!! MUST HAVE THE GUNZ....

Yeah, I don't get it either....

I don't either as no one advocates what you are implying.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you make a thread in the exploring Christianity forum I will respond....wait a minute...Just checked....this is exploring Christianity and somehow the thread OP and discussion has turned into "deploring Christianity."

'somehow' ?
When is the last time you looked at the posters/membership, and the 20 pages give or take of Thread Titles ?
and how many BOTS are logged in ? (usually more than people)

 

[redleghunter]

'somehow' ?
When is the last time you looked at the posters/membership, and the 20 pages give or take of Thread Titles ?
and how many BOTS are logged in ? (usually more than people)

I'm sure you caught my tongue in cheek.

 

[dzheremi]

How can some group that is a small minority religion anywhere be called quite popular there ?

Set against the expectations of outsiders who believe that the Bible must be smuggled into the country without realizing that the Bibles that they are bringing in were probably printed there, I think we can take the fact that Christianity is China's fastest growing religion (as per the link) to be an indicator of its popularity. It's certainly not as popular in terms of absolute numbers as irreligion is in that country, but popular in the sense of winning adherents and becoming more rather than less accepted, sure. I would have used the term 'ascendant' instead, were it not for the sense that this seems to be predicting something about the future that we can't know.

 

[chilehed]

Then you moved the goalposts:

So now you are talking about the basis of the conclusions? You make no sense whatsoever here.life.

You think that my claim that atheists have no coherent way to propose a framework within which the words right and wrong have meaning, refers to something other than the reasoning they use to arrive at their conclusions? That's really strange.

My internal idea of respecting the other is what makes me think that killing people is wrong...

Yes, your internal, subjective sense. You base your conclusion on something that's not at all objective, it's merely a matter of your personal taste and so you have no coherent way to claim that that idea is morally binding on anyone else. You prove my point.

But this is off topic. The topic has to do with the loony idea that it's somehow wrong to teach stuff to your kids, stuff like the difference between right and wrong. The topic is not why your way of distinguishing right from wrong may be more or less coherent than mine.

 

[nChrist]

Another bogus argument. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. I'm sure Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. are glad they are of that persuasion.

Oh, and your argument might hold more water if you referred to other groups by their proper names. Since you didn't...I have to guess you don't know enough about other faith traditions to make any sort of critical evaluation of their beliefs.

RedPonyDriver,

Good - I copied and pasted from a person on your side of the argument, so you might get with them.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Good - I copied and pasted from a person on your side of the argument, so you might get with them.

There's illiterate idiots on every side. Either way, learn to spell and construct proper sentences and I MIGHT be willing to take what you have to say seriously.

 

[nChrist]

Another bogus argument. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. I'm sure Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. are glad they are of that persuasion.

Oh, and your argument might hold more water if you referred to other groups by their proper names. Since you didn't...I have to guess you don't know enough about other faith traditions to make any sort of critical evaluation of their beliefs.

RedPonyDriver,

That was a copy and paste letter for letter from Just_a_Joe:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...trinate-children.7968033/page-7#post-70213012

You might want to educate him.

 

[nChrist]

There's illiterate idiots on every side. Either way, learn to spell and construct proper sentences and I MIGHT be willing to take what you have to say seriously.

RedPonyDriver,

I could care less if you like my posts or not. You just made my ignore list, so bye.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

That was a copy and paste letter for letter from Just_a_Joe:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...trinate-children.7968033/page-7#post-70213012

You might want to educate him.

And? YOU posted. So...how am I supposed to know you plagiarized someone else's words? That's a big no-no too. But, you're upset that I DARED to say something other than cowering crying "mea culpa".

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I could care less if you like my posts or not. You just made my ignore list, so bye.

Bye Felicia

 

[Nihilist Virus]

While I agree with the general notion that the Holy Spirit is supposed to play some role in the propagation of the Christian tradition as a handful of the things the writers of the New Testament suggests, I would also say that they don't discount that a portion of the role of the Holy Spirit is to be dispensed through the various gifts and agencies of the Church.

Hence, Christian parents, like Jewish parents of old, are a part of God's collective people, and are therefore charged with delivering some portion of God's "info" to the children.

And I'm fine with that. Like I said, introduce your kid to a child's version of the Bible, tell them the gist of it, and then let the Holy Spirit guide them as they read it. If they have questions or doubts, do your best to answer. Doing more than this is just a lack of faith in the Holy Spirit, in my opinion.