Why is Hell permanent?

[Timothew]

I'm sorry but the Jonah story never says Jonah was dead nor was he ressurrected.

I think that Jonah probably was dead in the belly of the large fish. Three days underwater is generally enough to kill a man. Plus Jesus said that the sign of Jonah is the sign of the Messiah, Just as Christ was dead for three days it is likely that Jonah was dead for three days. It was no problem for God to resurrect people in OT times either. This might also explain the readiness of the Ninevites to repent. If they saw that God can raise a man from death, they would be very motivated to repent and gain resurrection to eternal life themselves. In any case, if a person is underwater for three days, they drown and are dead.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I think that Jonah probably was dead in the belly of the large fish. Three days underwater is generally enough to kill a man. Plus Jesus said that the sign of Jonah is the sign of the Messiah, Just as Christ was dead for three days it is likely that Jonah was dead for three days. It was no problem for God to resurrect people in OT times either. This might also explain the readiness of the Ninevites to repent. If they saw that God can raise a man from death, they would be very motivated to repent and gain resurrection to eternal life themselves. In any case, if a person is underwater for three days, they drown and are dead.

Your whole story falls to pieces because you fail to realize that whales breathe AIR. You cannot drown in AIR.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Your whole story falls to pieces because you fail to realize that whales breathe AIR. You cannot drown in AIR.

uhhhhh....im not an expert in this area, but wouldnt the air be in the whales lungs? and not in its mouth or belly? just saying.

 

[Sophrosyne]

uhhhhh....im not an expert in this area, but wouldnt the air be in the whales lungs? and not in its mouth or belly? just saying.

A whale dives underwater by holding its breath... do you hold your breath only in your lungs or in your mouth also?

 

[Sadalmelik]

A whale dives underwater by holding its breath... do you hold your breath only in your lungs or in your mouth also?

uh, ive done it both ways, its entirely possible to hold your breath in your lungs, and open your mouth to allow water into it. ive done it....so i could imagine a whale doing it also....further, i know they do this, because as their holding their breath, they take large gulps of water into their mouths in order to strain out the krill, that is how they eat....you see. so i think your incorrect on this one. and btw, im not just talking a little water, they take in enough to fill a swimming pool, at one time,,,,,they have to do this in order to eat enough krill, they have to eat alot you know.and i couldnt imagine the belly having much wiggle room either.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You may even be surprised to hear that Jonah is not even the only human to ever survive such an ordeal. During a voyage of a whaling ship in February of 1891, a sperm whale was spotted and pursued in the vicinity of the Falkland Islands. In an attempt to harpoon the whale, one sailor drowned while a second one disappeared. Eventually the whale was killed and drawn to the side of the ship where it was dissected.

"The next day, the stomach was hoisted on deck and opened--with the missing sailor lying inside. The sailor was unconscious, but alive. He was eventually revived and, after a time, resumed his duties on board the whaling vessel(Wilson, Sign of the Prophet Jonah, 630 - 642). "

Is it scientifically possible to survive inside of a whale for three days and nights? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[Sophrosyne]

The average every-day whale or dolphin has three stomach CHAMBERS. Not "stomachs", "stomach CHAMBERS". The first chamber, called the forestomach, is the only stomach chamber you'll end up living in. It's a mechanical stomach, sort of an "extension" of the esophagus. The whales and dolphins are able to use this stomach to store food for later. Then, when the time comes, they use the stomach to crush the food in a form of "chewing their food". Sometimes they barf up the food to lure in more food, a.k.a. sea gulls.

Can you survive in a whale's stomach

This one seems the most plausible answer and looks quite possible for God to make use of.

 

[Sadalmelik]

You may even be surprised to hear that Jonah is not even the only human to ever survive such an ordeal. During a voyage of a whaling ship in February of 1891, a sperm whale was spotted and pursued in the vicinity of the Falkland Islands. In an attempt to harpoon the whale, one sailor drowned while a second one disappeared. Eventually the whale was killed and drawn to the side of the ship where it was dissected.

"The next day, the stomach was hoisted on deck and opened--with the missing sailor lying inside. The sailor was unconscious, but alive. He was eventually revived and, after a time, resumed his duties on board the whaling vessel(Wilson, Sign of the Prophet Jonah, 630 - 642). "

Is it scientifically possible to survive inside of a whale for three days and nights? - Yahoo! Answers

thats quite an amazing story, though i wasnt there to witness it, ya know i dont really believe everything i hear on the internet these days...
further, sailors dont always get the benefit of the doubt, 'did you hear about the one that got away?' and it may be possibe that they had a wild nite prior? with company named jim or jack?

 

[Sadalmelik]

i have no problem believing any such story when it comes to God intervening, He could accomplish anything He wants....so anything illogical to us, is completely logical to and with God.

 

[Sadalmelik]

and btw, id rather just take your word for it, im not going to set out to see if its possible to survive inside a whale....although im sure there are some out there who might take this idea as a serious challenge.

 

[Sophrosyne]

and btw, id rather just take your word for it, im not going to set out to see if its possible to survive inside a whale....although im sure there are some out there who might take this idea as a serious challenge.

I don't try to convince the convinced, I try to put doubt in those who have some doubts so they will reexamine what they believe more carefully instead of blindly believing something because they started believing it in the first place when they read something or someone talked to them. I used to believe in evolution almost completely but it took a long time to change my mind about it and it started with a book someone gave me that put doubt in my belief and from there I could have a chance to realize that I could be... wrong. When I see people saying things like.... Jonah must have drowned and God resurrected him to prove their doctrinal views when it should be viewed BY ITSELF apart from the rest of the scripture for logical validity. Why would God have a fish come swallow Jonah just to drown him so he would have to resurrect him? Why not just send a fish Jonah could survive in instead of having to resurrect him. My God is smart enough to do it right the first time instead of OOOOPS I forgot Jonah needed to breathe so he will have to suffer the pain of drowning. And another thing... if Jonah drowned how would he know how long he spent in the fish?

 

[Timothew]

Your whole story falls to pieces because you fail to realize that whales breathe AIR. You cannot drown in AIR.

Your justification falls to pieces because it wasn't a whale that swallowed Jonah. "But the Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights."
Secondly, even if it was a whale that swallowed Jonah. Jonah would be in the stomach, not the lungs where the air is.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Your justification falls to pieces because it wasn't a whale that swallowed Jonah. "But the Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights."
Secondly, even if it was a whale that swallowed Jonah. Jonah would be in the stomach, not the lungs where the air is.

Apparently you didn't read the one post about whales having several compartments which would allow one to survive easily for days.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7649173/#post60507672

 

[Timothew]

Apparently you didn't read the one post about whales having several compartments which would allow one to survive easily for days.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7649173/#post60507672

Still, according to the bible it wasn't a whale. It was a fish. Do fish have the furnished compartments?

 

[Timothew]

Apparently you didn't read the one post about whales having several compartments which would allow one to survive easily for days.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7649173/#post60507672

Okay, I read it now. Did you read the link you supplied? Did you miss the part of how the first stomach crushes whatever is in it? So Jonah was in the first stomach compartment, without air, being crushed and you think he could "survive easily" for three days?

It really doesn't matter anyway, I was merely speculating on the possibility that Jonah actually died in the fish and was resurrected. It's possible and it fits the story.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Still, according to the bible it wasn't a whale. It was a fish. Do fish have the furnished compartments?

I have gone farther than I need to prove my point...... reject it if you want to but I think you are asking for a photograph of the big fish and a signed confession from Jonah himself with your inability to see my point and nitpicking things like "big fish" vs a whale...

 

[Sophrosyne]

Okay, I read it now. Did you read the link you supplied? Did you miss the part of how the first stomach crushes whatever is in it? So Jonah was in the first stomach compartment, without air, being crushed and you think he could "survive easily" for three days?

You didn't read carefully... the article says it can crush something but can be used just to store food the whale throws up to attract other things to eat.

It really doesn't matter anyway, I was merely speculating on the possibility that Jonah actually died in the fish and was resurrected. It's possible and it fits the story.

It is possible I agree, but I think God would easily be able with the information I have given to provide a fish that would allow him to survive inside for 3 days and not be drowned (killed). I think God could even provide a miracle to help him not die inside the fish vs a miracle to resurrect him instead.

 

[Timothew]

You didn't read carefully... the article says it can crush something but can be used just to store food the whale throws up to attract other things to eat.

It is possible I agree, but I think God would easily be able with the information I have given to provide a fish that would allow him to survive inside for 3 days and not be drowned (killed). I think God could even provide a miracle to help him not die inside the fish vs a miracle to resurrect him instead.

Yes, it may be possible that Jonah didn't die in there.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes, it may be possible that Jonah didn't die in there.

Then that makes for a possibility Jesus was "just as" Jonah those three days in some fashion.

 

[Timothew]

Then that makes for a possibility Jesus was "just as" Jonah those three days in some fashion.

If you are saying that Jesus didn't really die on the cross and He wasn't really dead in the tomb until early in the morning on the first day of the week, then I'll have to disagree with you.

It kind of makes the resurrection meaningless if Jesus didn't really die. I got up this morning, it isn't unusual for a living person to get up. If a person can get up after being dead for three days, that's something special.