Here is the problem with this debate. Your general parameters are to ignore the points I actually make and instead fabricate counter-arguments based on claims I did not make. Consequently, my response to this:
So all Atheists hate Christianity? Is that your contention now?
Would be to ask if you understand what the term often means.
You've given no reason to support the claim that they are cultural giants.
Earlier I embedded a link to the FOX television show "Lucifer." The precept of that series is Lucifer, the devil himself, decides to take a vacation from his duties in hell and relocate to Los Angeles. I read the background and watched the first episode. It is your typical sophomoric low-brow network television crap, laced with juvenile humor written governed by the assumed stupidity of the potential viewer. The narrative champions hedonism and moral relativism combined with imagery embedded with
occult symbolism. In regard to the series being produced and aired, the question is why FOX decided to produce it?
The most obvious answers are:
FOX believed the show would draw enough viewers to render it profitable via advertising revenue.
FOX executives are on the band-wagon of taking every opportunity to stick their finger in the eye of Christians.
Someone is promoting an agenda.
Of course each of these raises more questions. At least for those rational enough to ask. But the underlying truth in regard to this series is clear. Without a cultural construct molded to be accommodating the ability to produce a television series featuring satan as the male lead would not be possible. Do you believe this series could have been green-lighted during the 1970's, or the 1980's? In addition the series Lucifer is hardly the only current television series promoting the occult or occult themes.
You appeal to the relative power of satanism and the occult in popular culture, but it's existence doesn't derive from there.
I never said it did. I have stated quite clearly television was not invented for satanist or the promotion of satanism or the occult. I said satanist have availed themselves of the media in order to promote their agenda. The exact same is true of rock music. Rock music, or if you wish music in general, wasn't invented as an art form in order to promote the occult. But occultist have certainly taken advantage of its power and influence to promote their agenda.
You draw upon the links that some Rock and Metal music has/had with Satanism but fail to note that to most people, it's just a fun theme.
If so then these people have a warped idea of what is fun. Alcoholism, drug addiction, over indulgence, sexual promiscuity, sexual depravity, rage rebellion, narcissism, nihilism, depression, suicide, these are all self-destructive practices. Based on your prior post this is where you start screaming "Puritan! Outcast Unclean!" But understand I am not talking about a behavior, I am talking about irresponsible behavior. The underlying maxim of many rock and pop music anthems is based on the Aleister Crowley dictate of "Do What Thou Wilt." A dictate more commonly embraced as moral relativism.
I doubted that Satanism was ever culturally pervasive or powerful, not that it actually existed. Scientology exists now and probably has more power and influence than Satanism ever had.
Very few care what Tom Cruise thinks. Rock music as a genre however has embraced the philosophy of Crowley. His image was included on the cover of the
Beatles album "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." The Rolling Stones were devotees of both Crowley and Anton LeVay for a time. This is the original cover scheduled for their
album "Goats Head Soup." Considered too controversial for the time it was eventually changed to an image of Jagger wrapped in silk, or something. The Stones also evidenced their allegiance on the cover for the
album "Their Satanic Majesty's Request." And by producing an album by that name. And the fact they just
admitted it. Crowley's philosophy also influenced other notable bands such as Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and Metallica. And a lot of
other guys. Quote:
"But the person he mentioned most was Crowley. He held up Crowley as a model of what a magical life should be like, and at one point he introduced me to someone who claimed to be an illegitimate son of Crowley’s. I can’t remember who this was, or what we talked about, and I never discovered if he really was Crowley’s son or not. The artist read from The Diary of a Drug Fiend, Crowley’s sensational novel about heroin and cocaine addiction, which was also an advertisement for his ill- fated Abbey of Thelema in Sicily, where initiates learned how to do their “true will.” Like practically everyone else at the time, I was interested in drugs, and the cover of the book, with a sheik of sorts luxuriating in an opium- induced Oriental repose, certainly caught my eye. I had seen the book in the window of the old St. Marks Bookshop on St. Marks Place, just up from the famous Gem Spa, and I wondered when I would have enough cash to buy a copy.
Chris had an apartment that he sublet to Tommy Ramone, the Ramones’ first drummer and, sadly, the only member of the original group still alive. One afternoon we headed to his place and while Chris and Tommy talked, I checked out the bookshelves. Two books I borrowed that day changed my life. One was The Occult by Colin Wilson; the other was Crowley’s other novel Moonchild."
From: "
Aleister Crowley, Magick, Rock and Roll, and The Most Wicked Man In The World."
Actual Satanic cults simply borrow from popular culture rather than craft it.
That isn't true. Satan worship is nothing new. Baal, Belial, Beelzebub, Ra, Osiris, The God of This World, the Horned God, Beltane, Walpurgis Night, it is all fruit of the same poisonous tree. The standard has always been the same,
influence man and
the culture to
turn the
faithful away from God.
If you enjoy many fantasy-based video games and movies as you said that you do, then you are a hypocrite as a fair chunk of them borrow elements of the occult.
Fantasy is a genre. The occult is a practice.
Occult and Satanic themes are usually present, in some form, in the bulk of all fiction.
Moving the goalpost. Prior it was all just fantasy.
Yes. Ghost. A very good Retro Metal/Hard Rock band.
Do you really take them seriously?
They take themselves seriously. And apparently so does the music industry. I think they are idiots, but what matters is what their fans think, and what their fans get from the music. Music appreciation is subjective, the term good relative.
Anyone could say "I sold my soul". I could say that. It means less than nothing. It's literally just being edgy, or chest thumping.
Have you looked at how many music artist are making this claim? Lada Gaga, Beyonce, Kesha, Kenya West, Katy Perry, just to cite a small sample, are all on video openly confessing to their conversion. The Lada Gaga video for "Bad Romance" graphically details her conversion, the act of selling her soul. Because of the imagery employed I can't even link it here.
According to you most of popular culture and society are intrinsically and diametrically opposed to God.
Another strawman. That isn't what I said.
What even are you referring to? Nature themes in music? Pagan themes in music? Again, is singing about your cultural heritage a satanic thing?
Wicca is not a cultural heritage. But again, I very clearly stated what I stated. The issue isn't nature themes in music. The issue is pagan and occult practices glorified in music.
For comparison I have yet to ever see a Pagan collect a list of Pro-Christian lyrics and post in a thread like you've done. I've never even seen a Pagan proselytize.
A statement which tells me you didn't bother to do any research.
So do you actually believe that Kanye West, Rihanna and Black Sabbath are Satanists?
Sidestep. My question was for you to explain what aspect of the fantasy genre you believed was being promoted via those particular album covers.
Do you actually think that those kind of covers make up over 50% of all album art?
Irrelevant. The point is a percentage of album covers promote satanic theme, imagery, and ideology.
