Discussion Why don’t you go to church?

[topher694]

You throw insults and make unrighteous judgements against me, then get all offended when they bounce back on you. Tsk

That makes zero sense.

A) I've never been kicked out of a church for overstepping my bounds, let alone more than one. So I fail to see how anything has "bounced back on me"

B) Zero insults have been made.

C) Stop flattering yourself, that's what caused your issues in the first place. There are no unrighteous judgments being made. There are at least 3 different things you handled incorrectly in your own description of just one of the situations. And all of this comes from information that you volunteered openly.

You seem to be an expert on bringing correction to others. Can you take it?

 

[Francis Drake]

That makes zero sense.

A) I've never been kicked out of a church for overstepping my bounds, let alone more than one. So I fail to see how anything has "bounced back on me"

B) Zero insults have been made.

C) Stop flattering yourself, that's what caused your issues in the first place. There are no unrighteous judgments being made. There are at least 3 different things you handled incorrectly in your own description of just one of the situations. And all of this comes from information that you volunteered openly.

You seem to be an expert on bringing correction to others. Can you take it?

There you go again...…………...
You obviously can't help it can you, jumping to judgement.
Feel free.

 

[topher694]

There you go again...…………...
You obviously can't help it can you, jumping to judgement.
Feel free.

Again this makes zero sense.

Yet there I go again, responding to YOUR words and YOUR judgments.

I'm going to go ahead and take that as a no, you are not able to take correction.

 

[Francis Drake]

Yet there I go again, responding to YOUR words and YOUR judgments.

Exactly what are these judgements?

I'm going to go ahead and take that as a no, you are not able to take correction.

And who told you to correct me?

 

[topher694]

Exactly what are these judgements?

Here's some:

It was not so much a sin, but a falling short common in most churches

(Along with pretty much everything you described with that church)

maybe you could get a good job writing horoscopes

You throw insults and make unrighteous judgements against me

(Ah, the irony)

And who told you to correct me?

A) I haven't corrected you, I asked if you were open to correction. I pointed out that there were things mishandled, but not what they were how they should have been handled

B) Even still, perhaps I should answer your question by asking you the same one. Who told you to correct all these churches?

 

[Francis Drake]

Here's some:
(Along with pretty much everything you described with that church)

In order to protect those who got hurt, I deliberately gave no information for you to infer anything either way regarding that church.

(Ah, the irony)

A) I haven't corrected you, I asked if you were open to correction. I pointed out that there were things mishandled, but not what they were how they should have been handled

B) Even still, perhaps I should answer your question by asking you the same one. Who told you to correct all these churches?

If you read correctly, you would see that there is no such thing as "all these churches". I described one event only.

If you note also, I did not judge that church, nor correct them!
As to who sent me, I was already there, and simply gave the leader a word that God had given me, a word I had agonised over for months.

The word was significant to them specifically because of what God was already doing, but they were in danger because Satan was on the warpath.
You will also recall that the leader agreed the word was correct!

I did what God called me to do, including the warning of death (which at the time made no sense to me).
And again you will recall I made it clear that it wasn't about his sinfulness,-
"Let me be clear, he was a humble man, and not involved in any sinful behaviour, but was more a victim of those who idolised him."

It was very grievous to watch the word come to pass.
I discovered much later that I was not the only one the Lord sent to warn him

Your repeated attacks on me are ill founded and unrighteous. You are treading in areas you clearly don't understand.

 

[topher694]

In order to protect those who got hurt, I deliberately gave no information for you to infer anything either way regarding that church.

If you read correctly, you would see that there is no such thing as "all these churches". I described one event only.

If you note also, I did not judge that church, nor correct them!
As to who sent me, I was already there, and simply gave the leader a word that God had given me, a word I had agonised over for months.

The word was significant to them specifically because of what God was already doing, but they were in danger because Satan was on the warpath.
You will also recall that the leader agreed the word was correct!

I did what God called me to do, including the warning of death (which at the time made no sense to me).
And again you will recall I made it clear that it wasn't about his sinfulness,-
"Let me be clear, he was a humble man, and not involved in any sinful behaviour, but was more a victim of those who idolised him."

It was very grievous to watch the word come to pass.
I discovered much later that I was not the only one the Lord sent to warn him

Your repeated attacks on me are ill founded and unrighteous. You are treading in areas you clearly don't understand.

I understand these areas FAAAAAR more than you do. If you understood them you would not have been kicked out of multiple churches. I have been on both sides, yet haven't been kicked out.

There have been no attacks. The closest thing to an attack is when you said I should get a job doing horoscopes. You volunteered the information publicly, I see clear mishandling and said as much. You can have a right word and handle it wrong. You did that. If you don't care to know or see why, that's your choice. But, the point is neither ill founded, nor unrighteous. Regardless of what you do, my hope is that others reading will not fall into the same trap.

 

[Francis Drake]

I understand these areas FAAAAAR more than you do. If you understood them you would not have been kicked out of multiple churches. I have been on both sides, yet haven't been kicked out.

There have been no attacks. The closest thing to an attack is when you said I should get a job doing horoscopes. You volunteered the information publicly, I see clear mishandling and said as much. You can have a right word and handle it wrong. You did that. If you don't care to know or see why, that's your choice. But, the point is neither ill founded, nor unrighteous. Regardless of what you do, my hope is that others reading will not fall into the same trap.

You really should change your signature line.

 

[topher694]

You really should change your signature line.

Good point. I should have stopped this discussion with you long ago. Consider it done.

 

[DennisTate]

there are numbers (some prolific posters here), that choose not to go to church.

Simple question.

Why?

Your signature is AWESOME!

I try to go to church most Sundays..... but I do sometimes miss ... usually it is because my wife has some other fairly urgent visit that she needs to make.

 

[Kaon]

there are numbers (some prolific posters here), that choose not to go to church.

Simple question.

Why?

What do you mean why: are you being serious?

What is church today except for a social and political club? I want no parts of institution tantamount to high school applied to spirit, nor do I want to be a part of an institution that tells me the Most High God that doesn't change somehow changed His Laws for us without explicitly telling us - and I certainly don't want to be called a demon for choosing to follow the Laws of the Most High God.

It is amazing the Church doesn't realize why they losing capital people. Dogma = Church today, and you cannot institutionalize or "academically" learn a relationship.

People are starting to realize humans lie, and the Most High God will instruct them if they have the faith to receive Him. No need for an edifice and institution/ritual.

 

[lismore]

It's a blessing when 'church' works well. The most powerful and wonderful organisation around. People getting saved, the word is being preached, people finding fellowship and care, when the prayer meeting is full. Putting the Kingdom of God first is a key, Jesus before self and egos, finances and position.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What i am seeing so far is:

- transportation

- job

- offense taken.

Offenses seem to be the most prevalent so far.

You missed the guy who was bored. Which I can understand since a Pastor's Teaching in not on a college level.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I can tell you from the other side, being the pastor, that these are for sure the top 3.

What are the other reasons given?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

As a rule I would never make a broad recommendation to stay or leave. It truly needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis (note, if it is a true cult this would not apply)

I've seen horrible, HORRIBLE behavior of all kinds by pastors/leaders. But I've also seen:

• Sheep getting offended at things they do not, and should not have all the information about.
• Sheep that mislead or flat out lie about the church/pastors. Often because their secret sin was talked about and rather than face it they attack.
• Sheep that think they know what is good for the church better than their pastor and who then rally support against their pastor splitting the congregation (see Absalom)
• And much, much more.

Given the terrible behavior possible on both sides, you truly HAVE to take it case by case and get to the root of the issue. There's almost always more to the story.

read to here

 

[topher694]

What are the other reasons given?

Usually no reason is given, people just disappear.

Most are variations of offense (boy have I seen/heard some doozies)

But other's I have seen:

• "can't find the right fit" / "no [fill in the blank] churches in my area"
• "I don't get anything out of it" (probably because you don't put anything into it, imo)
• Pride ("I don't need it" / "I know better" / "All I need is the Holy Spirit")
• Illness/Can't physically go (many who fall into this category now use live streaming if available)
• Get out of the habit. Usually due to sickness or vacation, they get out of the habit and just stop making it a priority
• Marriage (unfortunately)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Thank You

 

[hislegacy]

You missed the guy who was bored. Which I can understand since a Pastor's Teaching in not on a college level.

you must have a great problem with Christ’s teachings then, they are on a third grade level.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

you must have a great problem with Christ’s teachings then, they are on a third grade level.

If Jesus were on earth today, He would address all levels including University. Jesus used puns, word play and other factors that a reader today would miss. For example, only quoting a few lines from a text in the Hebrew Scriptures the listener would recite in their memory the full chapter in context that Jesus referred to. Hardly, what one would call third grade. You need to stop assuming that people back then were stupid.

 

[hislegacy]

If Jesus were on earth today, He would address all levels including University. Jesus used puns, word play and other factors that a reader today would miss. For example, only quoting a few lines from a text in the Hebrew Scriptures the listener would recite in their memory the full chapter in context that Jesus referred to. Hardly, what one would call third grade. You need to stop assuming that people back then were stupid.

not assuming anything, just stating that scripture is written on a third grade reading level.