Discussion Why don’t you go to church?

[lismore]

I have a couple of relatives who have mild mental health issues- Christians who have attended church but do no longer now. Mild being the highest level of mental illness at which you can function in society. They and other persons have told me 'the church does not understand mental illness'. Bad experiences=worse mental health. God Bless

 

[bekkilyn]

Why do people believe that "honor your father and your mother" means honoring anyone who you perceive to have authority over you? I don't view it as the same thing at all. Your father and mother are the people who gave you life and are of your bloodline, and for those reasons are to be respected. "Father and mother" does not include priests, pastors, teachers, employers, governmental figures, etc. Is there some Hebrew (or Greek in the NT) word that was incorrectly translated as "father and mother" or "parents" to give this impression that this commandment is about (perceived) authority in general?

This is the exact sort of thing that would turn me away from going to a church.

With that said, there were long periods of time when I did not attend a church. In my 20's, I had finally had enough of my previous denomination and the "religious right" attitudes in politics that I believed that all churches were alike and washed my hands of the whole lot of them for a while.

Later, I went back and changed denominations and was (for the most part) happy with the church, despite some disagreement with a couple particular social principles. No church is going to be perfect.

But there were still long stretches where I wasn't attending regularly due to school and work and some health issues related to work. Once I got all of those things sorted out and had more energy, I was able to start attending regularly again and now that I actually work in vocational ministry, it's also part of my job to be in church every week.

But I can very well understand why many people refuse to go to church because if I'd had even half of the negative experiences some of them have had with attending a church, I probably wouldn't have gone back either.

 

[bekkilyn]

I have a couple of relatives who have mild mental health issues- Christians who have attended church but do no longer now. Mild being the highest level of mental illness at which you can function in society. They and other persons have told me 'the church does not understand mental illness'. Bad experiences=worse mental health. God Bless

This is so true. It's not limited to the church though, and much mental illness goes undiagnosed and untreated.

 

[seeking.IAM]

While denominationalism has its detractors, its upside is there is a lot to chose among. I think looking elsewhere is a preferred option to quitting entirely. That thing one finds so repugnant one place may not be a factor in play elsewhere.

 

[bekkilyn]

While denominationalism has its detractors, its upside is there is a lot to chose among. I think looking elsewhere is a preferred option to quitting entirely. That thing one finds so repugnant one place may not be a factor in play elsewhere.

I worked with three churches in the same denomination last year. All three had very different personalities, and unfortunately in one of the three, the lay leadership had a number of ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing. I would have never went back to that particular church as a visitor, but the other two were friendly and welcoming though different from each other. It definitely doesn't hurt to shop around, so to speak.

 

[RaymondG]

Sometimes an offense is a God-given instinct of wrong. How you behave about it is another matter. It's not necessary to be offensive back, although there are some cases where words of reproof back are warranted.

In my case, my ex-pastor sent me about 10 pages worth of very offensive and personal comments assuming something about me that was incorrect with the threat of church discipline pursuant to the 4th commandment because I didn't want to do something he wanted me to do. He said the 4th commandment (Honor your father and your mother) was about obeying my authority, and as a pastor, he was my authority, so I would either need to yield to his unBiblical and vain doctrine or stand in front of the church for discipline and/or excommunication for breaking the 4th commandment.

Yes, I took offense because his vain doctrine was repugnant to me at a personal level. However, I did not reply because every time I started to draft an email it would have returned an offense back to him. When he prompted me three months later as to whether or not I received his email, I replied with a resignation.

His offense was liberating, though, because it caused me to finish the last leg of my journey of studying and understanding the vast liberty from bondage, grace and love Christ has for his church in Him, equally for both the male and the female members. Christ does not have a dim or second class regard for females; we are just as precious to Him as the men are. Hallelujah!!

Offense has to be accepted before it is felt. If one tried to give you offense, and you receive it, then you took it.

So taking offense is still accurate.

Jesus told to forgive those who did not one what they were doing.... He too could have taken the offense as well. Good thing for all of us, that He did not.

 

[Francis Drake]

there are numbers (some prolific posters here), that choose not to go to church.

Simple question.

Why?

Starting in the early 80s I began to see how the institutional system of church structure and leadership is completely contrary to scripture, and based on man's organisational methods rather than on the spirit.
This is true whether its a large denominational church, or a small free church.

As I prayed for revelation and wisdom, my understanding grew over many years until the Lord directly called us out. Apart from the odd visit to spy out the land, we haven't been back for around 12 years.

Getting us out of the church was fairly straight forward, but getting church out of us was a much longer process including lots of deliverance from church based demons.
Coming out of the system was truly liberating, enabling us to encounter the Lord far more freely.
Visiting church now seems to dull compared to the freedom we have in hearing his voice outside.
We fellowship randomly with a few similar minded believers, and it is always refreshing to do that without the baggage of the institution.

 

[Endeavourer]

The ten commandments, and the law in general are not word for word specific, they each have a broader meaning. You Pastor was correct in the sense the 4th commandment includes him, and others in authority over us, it's not just mom, and dad, or grandparents.

Of course not, but he as your pastor deserves your respect, and should be honored, which does not mean paying homage, or, doing unbiblical things at his behest.

How does this instruction apply to my situation? Where does the Bible say that some other person in my life deserves the type of honor described in the 4th commandment other than my parents?

Will my life be long in the land that the Lord gives me if I honor my pastor or some other person as to the same level as if he were my parent? Is he entitled to the level of sacrificial care and honor that I render to my parents when they need help, and will this entitlement of his cost me my long life if I don't give it to him?

Are all the hundreds of people in the congregation to give him benevolence due a parent? Financial, health care and other such caretaking? Do we owe him a benevolent relationship for life at the cost of giving up years of our life if we do not? Where would I find that in the Bible?

Did God accidentally forget to add (and your pastor) to all of the verses throughout the Bible describing our benevolent obligations to our parents?

The Bible teaches men to leave their parents and cleave to their bride. The famous "leave and cleave" directive. If you find the 4th commandment directive to apply to our pastor as proof we need to obey him, why is it that we are not to obey our parents in our adulthood but we have to obey our pastor?

Adding things to the Bible causes dysfunction in Christ's body.

 

[seeking.IAM]

If the 4th commandment of honoring parents extends to Pastors, does not Colossians 3:21 apply, then, to Pastors as well?

20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
​

It's not a one-way street.

 

[lismore]

I worked with three churches in the same denomination last year. All three had very different personalities, and unfortunately in one of the three, the lay leadership had a number of ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing. I would have never went back to that particular church as a visitor, but the other two were friendly and welcoming though different from each other. It definitely doesn't hurt to shop around, so to speak.

Hello bekkilyn. Yes, shop around, pray and try again. Finding a good church can be a blessing to you and you can be a blessing to others. I have noticed that 'Birds of a feather flock together' or as the bible says 'Can two walk together unless they are in agreement'. So if there is a wolf in leadership in a church, there are potentially more wolves in the same church. Sheep don't run in the wolf pack. God Bless

 

[lismore]

Of course not, but he as your pastor deserves your respect, and should be honored, which does not mean paying homage, or, doing unbiblical things at his behest.

Hello Silverback. Yes. Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3 give qualifications that a leader should have, e.g 'they should be worthy of respect', 'be of good reputation', 'they should first be tested and then if found blameless let them serve'. Therefore we can respect our leaders because they are worthy of respect, trust our leaders because they have been tested and found blameless, follow our leaders because they are of good reputation in the congregation~ election.

If the biblical pattern is not followed then the system can break down from Godly leadership into tyranny. God Bless

 

[Silverback]

How does this instruction apply to my situation? Where does the Bible say that some other person in my life deserves the type of honor described in the 4th commandment other than my parents?

Will my life be long in the land that the Lord gives me if I honor my pastor or some other person as to the same level as if he were my parent? Is he entitled to the level of sacrificial care and honor that I render to my parents when they need help, and will this entitlement of his cost me my long life if I don't give it to him?

Are all the hundreds of people in the congregation to give him benevolence due a parent? Financial, health care and other such caretaking? Do we owe him a benevolent relationship for life at the cost of giving up years of our life if we do not? Where would I find that in the Bible?

Did God accidentally forget to add (and your pastor) to all of the verses throughout the Bible describing our benevolent obligations to our parents?

The Bible teaches men to leave their parents and cleave to their bride. The famous "leave and cleave" directive. If you find the 4th commandment directive to apply to our pastor as proof we need to obey him, why is it that we are not to obey our parents in our adulthood but we have to obey our pastor?

Adding things to the Bible causes dysfunction in Christ's body.

everyone of the ten commandments have broader meaning:

-You shall not commit adultery, includes any type of sexual immorality, not just cheating on your spouse.

-You shall have no God before me, does that include just pagan Idols...no, anything can become an Idol, money, your car, your home...anything

-You shall not bear false witness, it includes more than just not lying on the witness stand in court.

-You shall not covet, it gives a long list, how about things not on the list? That's OK right?

-You shall not steal, does that not include pattents, trademarks, and copyrights. I think it means more than physical property.

I could go on, but I hope you get my drift. Peace to you my friend.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I certainly disagree with all of that. The 10 Commandments mean what is written. Everything added to that is just somebody's wishful thinking.

 

[Endeavourer]

everyone of the ten commandments have broader meaning:

-You shall not commit adultery, includes any type of sexual immorality, not just cheating on your spouse.

-You shall have no God before me, does that include just pagan Idols...no, anything can become an Idol, money, your car, your home...anything

-You shall not bear false witness, it includes more than just not lying on the witness stand in court.

-You shall not covet, it gives a long list, how about things not on the list? That's OK right?

-You shall not steal, does that not include pattents, trademarks, and copyrights. I think it means more than physical property.

I could go on, but I hope you get my drift. Peace to you my friend.

Silverback, the problem is when people add to the Bible and invent what that broader meaning might be. Could you answer my questions specifically about the 4th commandment that I posted to you above?

 

[Silverback]

I certainly disagree with all of that. The 10 Commandments mean what is written. Everything added to that is just somebody's wishful thinking.

you certainly may believe what you wish, but there is always the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I have been waiting to answer this for some time. Such a mixed bag of emotions and reasons. Some very childish and others less so. I am only human and regrettably carnal at times.

A big reason I stopped going to church is the hurt experienced by the church. Hard to be relational with people who gossip about you, tell you they want to be friendly but never take the opportunity to do so (i.e. lets get some coffee but never do). Having a preacher pronounce God's curse on you for just wanting to discover why the church holds certain doctrines that I didnt fully understand or agree with, etc.

Now I know churches arent perfect. And I have read others reports here on the ills experienced in ministry. But how can we sing "oh how I love Jesus" when inside our hearts is envy, bitterness, lust, etc. Works in progress I know, but it just doesnt sit right. There are certain sins, that while no sin is ok, are less harmful. Perhaps I just have horrible church selection skills.

I also disagree with the way churches conduct themselves with pastor centric services. I know churches should have order and discipline in a sense, but I have a hard time believing the Spirit has much room to move when a pastor is constantly saying "Dont preach on this topic or that", we cant sing that song, dont lay hands on people. Just stifling to be honest. Childish I know for me to feel that way, it has nothing to do with envy I promise.

But the main reason is me. I don't know if I was or am a house on sinking sand or what, but in a span of 2 years I experienced a massive betrayal at the church I attended, nearly lost my home, did lose my job and second child. I thought I was strong enough to handle anything and well, I wasn't. I still haven't fully recovered from this spiritually. Financially I have a job and got one soon after. I went without a church family after this incident until just recently. I also have horrible social anxiety and am CONSTANTLY fighting this mantra that "I'm not good enough", "No one wants me around", "Im not interesting", etc. It really is draining and its a chore to just go to church at times and it causes me to snap at people that mean no harm when they say things.

Music is a big reason I am finding my place in God again. Playing in a worship band again has rejuvenated me in a way. I will post a song I wrote in the midst of all this mess here at some point. Not to promote myself, but to maybe give an idea of where I was and have been?

So in recap, I stopped going to church for a number of reasons. Mainly:
1) Hurt experienced by others within
2) Disagreements over how the church operates
3) I was/am too weak. This last one hurts still...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

there are numbers (some prolific posters here), that choose not to go to church.

Simple question.

Why?

< shrugs >

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 - What business is it of mine to judge ...
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 - New International Version
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 New International Version (NIV). 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside.

 

[topher694]

< shrugs >

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 - What business is it of mine to judge ...
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 - New International Version
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 New International Version (NIV). 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside.

I'm not sure I follow, what dose this mean? That you don't go to church because you'll be judged?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm not sure I follow, what dose this mean? That you don't go to church because you'll be judged?

I did not say I don't go to church.
Merely showed in God's Word it is written that those outside the church, He Judges;
while those inside the church are to be judged by His Authority by the church as He Says (not as men say)....

 

[topher694]

I did not say I don't go to church.
Merely showed in God's Word it is written that those outside the church, He Judges;
while those inside the church are to be judged by His Authority by the church as He Says (not as men say)....

Ok, I only thought that because of the post that you quoted along with it. I get it now.