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Why does Paganism scare Christians?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by EnemyOfReason, Mar 24, 2014.

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  1. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    The idea that Rome crumbled because of homosexuality or sexual licentiousness is actually perfectly spurious.
    You could even build a better (if almost equally incorrect) case for CHRISTIANITY as the reason for Rome's fall, since that religion was a relatively new factor at the time, whereas Rome had been a heaving fleshpot of carnality even before its heyday, and certainly did not serve as a model of prudishness when it reached the peak of its power.

    All in all, though, I'd say that neither sexuality nor religion had much to do with the collapse of the Western Empire, and that several other complex factors were involved here: growing too big, outsourcing too much of the military, etc.
     
  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Political context is understood - I was speaking in regards to the U.S as well. Muslims really aren't a minority within the U.S since they have substantial power and influence in many places when it comes to democratic influence - seeing that there're already Muslims involved in politics within American culture as well as grassroots organizations and they work with Non-Muslims often (more here, here, here, here , here, here ,here and here/ here), it's bananas to see the ways others react to Muslims/assuming they're all out to conquer you and take over. I truly do feel sorry for the many Muslims who feel very isolated within the U.S and living in fear, but I am glad for others working on their behalf (just as with other groups) to ensure that they're well connected.

    And on the ways that Muslims treat homosexuals in some countries or others not agreeing, it can be appalling. Of course, many times Muslims have been stereotyped as treating homosexuals in horrible ways even though they do the same as others - disagreeing strongly but not forcing others outside of their communities to not walk in it.

    On Sustainable Traditions and Christian Libertarianism, I am glad those kinds of organizations exist and are doing a lot - just as it is with other things similar. It's not a minority, of course, in what they do - it just so happens to be the case that you rarely hear about it in many circles because they don't have the platform that all others may have.
    I do think that the idea of homosexuality being the reason for Rome coming down is inconsistent - it may have been a factor but it wasn't the ONLY factor in why Rome went through a lot of problems......just as it Is the case with the U.S

    My mindset is that some things may be wrong - but that doesn't mean they are the sole reason as to why things may or may not break down ...nor does it mean that I don't find value in any of the things done by others who are for homosexuality (more on that shared here in http://www.christianforums.com/t7760985-6/#post63727530 and http://www.christianforums.com/t7760985-8/#post63777079 and http://www.christianforums.com/t7733775-6/#post62733514 and http://www.christianforums.com/t7707102-3/#post61929332). Some things can be allowable and people learn to live alongside with.

    Prostitution was legal and widespread within the Byzantine Empire except for a period of a couple of years when an ambitious Emperor/Empress would close the brothels and force the prostitutes into convents. Of course the Church spoke out heavily against fornication and prostitution, but it all remained legal.

    And What the Empress sought to do was very noteworthy to consider when it comes to the times we live in and wondering how to go about things.

    The Roman Empire was plagued from within by excessive lust for violence/perversion and sexual immorality (be it of the heterosexual kind or homosexual kind) - and yet later on, it slide into gross immorality and yet those faithful evolved into the Byzantine Empire - with other men leading the way in aggressive campaign against sexual immorality like Theodosius I and Justinian ..or Empress Flaccilla , Empress Theodora and many others. I say that in light of how often people compare the U.S.A to the Roman Empire and say it'll be destroyed and is unable to reform based on Rome's history - and yet the other side of history with the empire is left out.

    Granted, with the Byzantine Empire, it was just that...an empire, with an emperor. And a morality based on Christ....and that's something which should be considered when seeing how the U.S is based on a Democratic model - a model that is really a Plutocratic model with Democratic Republic ideas similar to what Rome had. And as long as people are not educated properly and aware of the ramifications of actions, the government will represent the state of life that the people lean toward.

    The Byzantine Empire at least had something close to an ethos of godliness that the Roman Empire never had. Granted, the East Romans were far from flawless - but they seemed far more successful than Rome ever was....and perhaps the U.S can experience the same if allowing for some serious consideration. Some serious struggles may also need to occur in order to get us to that point. But we can get there I think - and although we'll never be a place without flaws or any level of sexual immorality, it may be possible to at least bring the nation to a point of containment/quarantine where things do not progress. Understanding choice differently than how it's interpreted in today's context with democracy may be a starting point - for so many think that choice/free will means having just basis to do whatever one wishes....rather than seeing what one chooses to do as being either wise/productive or detrimental to others. And so long as the focus stays on respecting the right to choose rather than setting limits for how far choices can go, things will go as they go...

    Everyone disagrees with something to one extent or another - and of course, people learn to either get along to get along or other things go down. Be it with Muslims or Christians or Atheists and any other group....

    And even people who are involved in same-sex relationships do the same - as it concerns people who look down on others for not thinking you have to be involved in same-sex relationships or that you have to see them as things you were born with....and this has occurred with others who were formerly involved in same-sex relationships and yet walked away from it, noting how they weren't forced to do so and not seeing it as something they had to do/couldn't escape from (in the same way one cannot escape being born Black). They get a lot of flack from others simply for disagreeing...(as said elsewhere in http://www.christianforums.com/t7760985-2/#post63637680 ).

    And that's not even a matter of "Well, you became a Christian - now you disagree with homosexuality" - for even atheists or other non-theistic groups have noted how they don't agree with same-sex relationships as being natural/a part of biological development that was supposed to happen and they note where they used to be involved in those types of relationships but changed ....and they get flack.

    And when it seems to get to the point where you're punished for disagreeing on the matter, that's where you get into trouble. But again, this isn't new...


    Unfortunately, for Christians who have had to do a lot of addressing where others were always blasting people disagreeing with them, it has led to a lot of angst that isn't necessary. But as long as there's actual discussion going on, things can continue on......
     
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Nor are so many numerous others....
     
  4. gordRedeemed

    gordRedeemed Well-Known Member

    +612
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    pagans are rad. i dabbled here and there with pagan traditions. joined a few orders as a druid. cast some spells as a witch. honoured the gods as i drank with Odin while BBQing slabs of flesh. good times.
     
  5. elephunky

    elephunky Previously known as dgirl1986

    +184
    Humanist
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    Some christians seem more afraid of atheists than they are of pagans these days.
     
  6. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

    +0
    Wow, I don't know what you do know, but clearly you don't know my Scripture:

    "Paul stood in the middle of the court and said, “Men of Athens, I see that you are very religious. As I was going through your city and looking closely at the objects you worship, I noticed an altar with this written on it: ‘To an unknown god.’ I’m telling you about the unknown god you worship." (Acts 17:22)

    Since this was like, THE most influential Christian preacher ever, and here he says essentially the exact opposite of what you do, I'm going with you mis-spoke.
     
  7. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

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    You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Attributed to ... Bjorn Borg, I think?
     
  8. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    Paul's manoevre here can hardly count as an endorsement or support of Greco-Roman polytheism, now can it? It was a rather trite ploy to begin with.
     
  9. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    This would be rather funny, if Christianity hadn't played such an instrumental role in European colonialism and the systematic destruction of indigenous cultures around the globe. (And is still playing a crucial and terrible role in several unappetizing trends you'll find in Africa, such as Nigerian witch hunters or the Ugandan anti-homosexuality act.)
     
  10. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

    +0
    It's pretty hard for me to know how to process this upon reading it. I am drawn to consider how this applies within the US since the revolutionary war, and also to point out I might normally be inclined to classify any given pope as a misguided soul, but at the same time I can't help but to love the current pope, and to recognize he indeed needs and deserves support, via at least prayer. These are some widely divergent thoughts that I can't find a way to connect to the central thrust of the thread, but both those directions could spark conversations of their own which might prove to be very interesting.
     
  11. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

    +0
    If its any consolation to you, I have found that some aspects of church history I attempted to digest made me physically ill. I also consider you a Brother, due to your Judaism.

    Further, I don't find Christianity teaching "tolerance" at all. Instead, it teaches love; and the distinction between the 2 is profound.
     
  12. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

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    Ok, so you'd rather miss the point so you can maintain your view. I can accept that, but it seems entirely too much like Calvin for my tastes. Luther's stance on the Jews applies equally, or maybe even better.
     
  13. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

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    Here I can agree with you.
     
  14. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor

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    My editorial: Jesus taught Love. A child of Love IS tolerance. Christianity on the other hand teaches a type of One True Wayism to Salvation. And it's a type One True Wayism that is anything but tolerance. So I see Jesus and Christianity as two completely different things that only occasionally cross paths. One teaches Love, the other teaches One True Wayism.

    .
     
  15. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

    +2,882
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    When I told my parents I wanted to become a Baha'i as a teenager they whisked me off to our pastor who insisted I should know more about the history of my own religion first. I said, "Fine, give me some books to read." He led me to his library and told me to pick some out. Among others, I picked out Will Durant Caesar and Christ. I don't know what he was thinking of, because had a I read those books before finding out about Baha'u'llah I would assuredly become an atheist.
     
  16. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

    +0
    News flash: Jesus taught one true way. I suspect you have a point in there somewhere, and I suspect I would agree with it if it was stated.

    My point is love goes a lot further than tolerance.
     
  17. theophilus777

    theophilus777 Guest

    +0
    This makes me pretty sure this Pastor never read the books on his shelf. I do wonder how frequent this is. Classic pretense.

    Wouldn't a good leader direct you to read something tailored to your needs at the time?
     
  18. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Some people will always be afraid of everything....
     
  19. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor

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    Which would be Love.

    Agreed. Yet within Love is tolerance. I don't know how to separate the two.

    .
     
  20. katautumn

    katautumn Wandering, not lost.

    +155
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    No, but being formerly Neo-Pagan, myself, I know that many sects are fertility-based and many of the rites and rituals involve symbolism of penises and vaginas and the womb. I also know, from experience, that the Great Rite can involve sexual intercourse either actually or symbolically, and that some traditional covens still use the former in their ritual for initiation.

    Nah! That's just Hollywood stuff.

    Here again, I know from experience that the greatest deception of Satan is when you believe you aren't worshiping in his honor, just because you don't believe in him.

    Only the ones I made after coming out of it after a decade of being a practitioner, and dabbler, in everything from Asatru to Green Witchcraft and from Wicca to LaVeyan Satanism.

    The two cannot possibly be separated. You are trying to define the word "love" in your own image. Love is not always tolerance, and vice versa. You clearly have a perception of Jesus Christ. Unless you walked the earth with Him, the only way you could have come up with this perception is through reading the Scriptures. If that is so, I would invite you to read the following passages and see what you take away from them:

    It would seem to me that Jesus said that He is the ONLY WAY. Not there there are many ways, or that the way is love. Also, it would seem that the narrow path is not paved with tolerance for sin.
     
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