Why does God leave no tracks?

[bhsmte]

Interesting, I claim and tell you where you can go to get information, and you respond by saying, it is your claim, you google. Well apparently we are at an impass. I have already googled and came to a conclusion. You will not google, so you will have to reamain in the dark. Good luck with that.

It boils down to this. How does the godless explain the universe? Their only expanation is that it happened naturally by a random chance happening. There are other explanations that are stupid, like there are trillions x trillions of universes and 1 of them is ours and that random chance happening, happened. Again, good luck with presenting scientific evidence for that theory.

The probability of our universe and solar system and earth, (with all the constants necessary for life), coming into existence by a random chance happening is so near zero, that the possibility of it happening that way is zero. That is all you have to prove there is no God. Random chance. Tell me if you have more.

I want you to go buy a 20 sided die, and roll it 34 times. When you roll the number 16, 34 times in a row, then come back to me and I will listen to you intently.

What I have is an intelligent, advanced, holy being. This Person has the knowledge to line up the constants in just the right way to boot up a universe, solar system and and earth teeming with life.

It takes a lot less faith to believe in ID than it does to believe in a 20 sided die and rolling 16, 34 times in a row. The real problem is that an ID requires things of us, things that seen to be controlling, and for some people that is untollerable. They would rather lose everything and not believe in ID rather than conform to the principles He requires. They cannot see that the principles he requires will lead them to the highest happiness that exists, but they must conform. It's kind of like conforming to the traffic laws. If you choose not too, you could be severly injured, or severly injure someone else, and you could be killed, or sent to prison. How happy are those alternatives. If you conform, your life is different and happier and at least has the possibility to be full of joy.

You make the choice.

If you cant do the work to support your own claim, we know all we need to know.

 

[Peter1000]

A system is a region of space.

A state is the arrangement of matter, energy, and otherwise existing things within a system.

Causality acts on a system to take it from one state to another over a duration of time.

"Prior" to the t=0 event, space and time "did" not exist. Phrased more precisely, in a state of reality wherein the t=0 event has not occurred, space and time do not exist. Therefore, causality does not exist. Therefore, the t=0 event cannot have been brought about via causality.

Prior to the t=0 event, science knows nothing, so your scholarly presentation is meaningless, as if it were fact.

Believers in ID say that prior to t=0, ID existed and was the cause of the universal expansion. And why did He do it? To perpetuate His species.

 

[HitchSlap]

God certainly isn't going to be causing new false gods to be created in people's imaginations.

How do you know this?

 

[HitchSlap]

Believers in ID say that prior to t=0, ID existed and was the cause of the universal expansion. And why did He do it? To perpetuate His species.

This is an opinion. Do you have any facts to suggest this is remotely true?

 

[Peter1000]

If you cant do the work to support your own claim, we know all we need to know.

It's not me that needs the information. It's you. I have given you all you need. I've claimed it and given you what to do to find it. It is really simple. My grandchild could find it in seconds. So do yourself a favor and google "universal constants", you will not be disappointed. If you are as intelligent as I think you are, you will know that it took intelligence to get it started and to maintain it.
If you are computer challenged, let me know and I will google and make the articles available on another post. Let me know.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Prior to the t=0 event, science knows nothing, so your scholarly presentation is meaningless, as if it were fact. Believers in ID say that prior to t=0, ID existed and was the cause of the universal expansion. And why did He do it? To perpetuate His species.

Your theology insists that God caused the t=0 event, a logical absurdity.

"I don't know" is a better answer than something that is logically absurd.

 

[Peter1000]

This is an opinion. Do you have any facts to suggest this is remotely true?

It takes intelligence to boot up a universe. Chance happenings like this do not happen on their own. ID is necessary to line up the universal constants that drive the sub-atomic elements that make up the entire material universe. A little less or a little more and no universe.

It is the universal constants that track ID. By scientific inquirey, science came to know what the constants are and their perfect ratios, but have no idea how they came into existence and how they maintain themselves for billions of years in perfect harmony. Science cannot duplicate these constants. Chance can't do it. Only ID can.

That is the evidence and the facts. Google "universal constants", and be impressed. Then search for ID, he really is there. The study of ID and His relationship to the human race is the most fascinating study you can undertake. I love it.

 

[HitchSlap]

It takes intelligence to boot up a universe. Chance happenings like this do not happen on their own. ID is necessary to line up the universal constants that drive the sub-atomic elements that make up the entire material universe. A little less or a little more and no universe.

It is the universal constants that track ID. By scientific inquirey, science came to know what the constants are and their perfect ratios, but have no idea how they came into existence and how they maintain themselves for billions of years in perfect harmony. Science cannot duplicate these constants. Chance can't do it. Only ID can.

That is the evidence and the facts. Google "universal constants", and be impressed. Then search for ID, he really is there. The study of ID and His relationship to the human race is the most fascinating study you can undertake. I love it.

This is an argument from ignorance. Just because we don't know something doesn't give any validity to "goddidit."

 

[ewq1938]

How do you know this?

Because he is against the idea of false gods. He would be a hypocrite if he created any false gods.

 

[Peter1000]

Your theology insists that God caused the t=0 event, a logical absurdity.

"I don't know" is a better answer than something that is logically absurd.

ID boots up the universe because of His extraordinary knowledge of the universal constants, and puts in motion the ability for stars to come into existence and solar systems to form, and earths to find their perfect spots in a solar system. In our case, causes just the right atmospheric pressure, water systems and all other life giving elements to align just right to bring life abundantly.

Explain to me, other than to say "a logical absurdity" why ID is such a "logical adsurdity"?

"I don't know" is your only answer, but it is the second best answer on the board. ID is the most logical.
The scientific reality of the universal constants points directly to ID.

 

[Davian]

Are those the tracks of Yahweh or Baal or Zeus or who?

Regarding the "atheist" label, I switched my label from "seeker" to "atheist" about two years ago, because I was pleased to have made some psychological progress in overcoming psychosis. Shortly thereafter, I began to realize that the psychosis was not quite gone, and I still had some confusion at times. I did not have the confidence in atheism that I had hoped to have, so the label was not a good fit. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way to change the labels after the forum upgraded their interface. I have noticed a lot more animosity and suspicion of my motives from Christian members after I labeled as "atheist". I also have noticed a preference for "agnostic" over "atheist" that reflects a fundamental ignorance of the beliefs of people who label themselves as atheists. You should join an atheist forum, and get to know some real atheists in their natural environment. They are all types of people. Again, I don't consider myself to be a model atheist, but I'm not ashamed to call myself one. What I object to is being stereotyped in a negative way because of this label.

Indeed, and I do not identify with that label for similar reasons.

You can change the label by starting a thread to request it in the Members Services Center forum.

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/member-services-center-msc.883/

 

[HitchSlap]

Because he is against the idea of false gods. He would be a hypocrite if he created any false gods.

How do you know this?

 

[HitchSlap]

ID boots up the universe because of His extraordinary knowledge of the universal constants, and puts in motion the ability for stars to come into existence and solar systems to form, and earths to find their perfect spots in a solar system. In our case, causes just the right atmospheric pressure, water systems and all other life giving elements to align just right to bring life abundantly.

Explain to me, other than to say "a logical absurdity" why ID is such a "logical adsurdity"?

"I don't know" is your only answer, but it is the second best answer on the board. ID is the most logical.
The scientific reality of the universal constants points directly to ID.

The logical answer is the one that doesn't violate the law of parsimony.

 

[ewq1938]

How do you know this?

The bible of course.

 

[HitchSlap]

The bible of course.

The Bible was written by men, most of them anonymous.

 

[cloudyday2]

Indeed, and I do not identify with that label for similar reasons.

You can change the label by starting a thread to request it in the Members Services Center forum.

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/member-services-center-msc.883/

Thanks, I was in member services for another issue, so I asked them to change my label while I was there. Now I am an "agnostic" instead of an "atheist".

 

[cloudyday2]

It's not me that needs the information. It's you. I have given you all you need. I've claimed it and given you what to do to find it. It is really simple. My grandchild could find it in seconds. So do yourself a favor and google "universal constants", you will not be disappointed. If you are as intelligent as I think you are, you will know that it took intelligence to get it started and to maintain it.
If you are computer challenged, let me know and I will google and make the articles available on another post. Let me know.

An analogy would be the orbit of Earth. Some people might argue that if the velocity of the Earth was just a little bit different, then the Earth would have crashed into the Sun billions of years ago. That doesn't prove that an intelligent creator carefully designed the initial conditions of the Earth to achieve this stable orbit.

What you need to do is create computer simulations of solar systems forming. Then you might compare the orbits of planets that we have observed in other solar systems to show that there are too many planets that are hospital to life. Therefore the assumptions of the computer simulations are wrong. Maybe God carefully configured each solar system to support life. ... You can't make arguments about probabilities and statistics if you only have one sample. If all we can see is our own solar system, then we can't argue that God designed the solar systems to have life. ... We only have one universe to observe, so arguing about the probability of this universe existing doesn't work.

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible was written by men, most of them anonymous.

Yeah but Christians believe those men were inspired by God so God is the actual author and in the bible God is against those who create false gods and worship them so why would God created false gods? That makes no sense logically let alone religiously. The bible states a house divided cannot stand.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

ID boots up the universe because of His extraordinary knowledge of the universal constants, and puts in motion the ability for stars to come into existence and solar systems to form, and earths to find their perfect spots in a solar system. In our case, causes just the right atmospheric pressure, water systems and all other life giving elements to align just right to bring life abundantly.

Explain to me, other than to say "a logical absurdity" why ID is such a "logical adsurdity"?

"I don't know" is your only answer, but it is the second best answer on the board. ID is the most logical.
The scientific reality of the universal constants points directly to ID.

Straw man. I never said intelligent design is logically absurd. I said causing the t=0 event is logically absurd.

If you want to propose God as the explanation of fine tuning, you must contend with the problem that God's properties are random:

1. Properties are either intelligently assigned or randomly assigned.
2. God has properties.
3. God was not assigned these properties by someone else.
4a. Assume God did not assign his own properties to himself.
5a. No one assigned God his properties, so they are not intelligently assigned.
6a. God's properties are random.
4b. Assume God did assign his own properties to himself.
5b. We can reasonably agree that God assigned himself his own properties according to his own preferences.
6bA. Assume God assigned himself his own preferences.
7bA. Before God assigned himself his own preferences, he did not have any preferences.
8bA. God assigned himself his own preferences randomly.
9bA. God assigned himself his own properties according to randompreferences.
10bA. God's properties are random.
6bB. Assume God did not assign himself his own preferences.
7bB. God's preferences are not intelligently assigned.
8bB. God's preferences are random.
9bB. Go to 9bA.

So until you show otherwise, you are contending that a God with random properties bestowed specific, delicate properties onto the universe.

 

[bhsmte]

It's not me that needs the information. It's you. I have given you all you need. I've claimed it and given you what to do to find it. It is really simple. My grandchild could find it in seconds. So do yourself a favor and google "universal constants", you will not be disappointed. If you are as intelligent as I think you are, you will know that it took intelligence to get it started and to maintain it.
If you are computer challenged, let me know and I will google and make the articles available on another post. Let me know.

Yes, you made a claim and I asked for the information.

Can you provide evidence for your claim?

Yes, or no?