Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[timothyu]

Why try to justify this world?

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[Larniavc]

The early church viewed it an honor to be chosen by God to share in suffering as our Lord had.

Why? What's so honourable about being made to suffer?

 

[Moral Orel]

And the necessary property of the best possible world is that it contains some suffering.

Why?

 

[Campos]

Here is what I think...

God is breaking us apart and rebuilding us to be a better person. For example: When a person creates a clay pot that is not in vision, or rubbish, does s/he get new clay and start over? No, s/he uses the same clay pot and breaks it down and forms it into a more beautiful pot.

Yes, suffering is hard, but sooner or later: Romans 8:28 (ESV): 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

He uses suffering to test, break, and rebuild those. Remember, the LORD turns mourning to dancing. The worst suffering is found in Hell, however, peace and comfort will be find in Heaven.

God bless!

 

[timothyu]

He uses suffering to test, break, and rebuild those.

Until we get it into our little heads that His will be done... not ours.

 

[MehGuy]

When I was a Christian, I held the deep belief that suffering was divine. The only reason God created the vast and mostly empty cold universe was to have a playground where beings could suffer. Suffering gave the soul depth, a depth and experience that could never be taken away. The reason God gave us fleshly bodies was to experience the stimuli of pain. Something angels (which I believed were pure spiritual beings) could never partake. The reason Lucifer was so threatened by the creation of man. With God (Jesus) himself finding the need to take on a physical body and partake in suffering.

Growing up I slowly realized these feelings were just a sadomasochistic fever dream and that it was all just nonsense, despite how "beautiful" and "meaningful" the emotions felt. I've since detoxed myself from such thoughts. Although I still find my old spiritual worldview interesting, and more coherent than spiritual worldviews I hear from others. Admittedly though, there was some potholes in my thinking. It was an attempt of my young mind to make sense of the world.

 

[trophy33]

Why?

I would need to know all things and compare all possible universes to each other to answer that.

This is the area of faith/trust in God that He cannot (by definition) choose wrong.

 

[Moral Orel]

I would need to know all things and compare all possible universes to each other to answer that.

So it's strictly a matter of blind faith that you believe suffering is a necessary property of the best possible universe.

 

[trophy33]

So it's strictly a matter of blind faith that you believe suffering is a necessary property of the best possible universe.

No. Its a result of trust in the perfections of God that are necessarily part of His nature.

Because He decided to bring to existence the order of things we are part of on this small planet, we can ab effectu know its the best possible order.

Blind faith is something different. Blind faith has no basis.

 

[timothyu]

Sounded reasonable though. When you consider tha

Because He decided to bring to existence the order of things we are part of on this small planet, we can ab effectu know its the best possible order.

How does that fit in with this?

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[trophy33]

And now, please, explain to me why suffering is a necessary property of the best possible world?

See post #47.

 

[trophy33]

How does that fit in with this?

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Moral Orel]

This is the area of faith/trust in God that He cannot (by definition) choose wrong.

So God doesn't have free will.

 

[timothyu]

You must clarify what you mean.

Does it not contradict your quote?

 

[trophy33]

So God doesn't have free will.

He has perfect free will - always choosing the best.

Depends on your definition of free will. Indeed, God does not have the erratic guessing of human free will or moral imperfections which some consider to be the freedom part.

 

[trophy33]

Does it not contradict your quote?

How?

 

[Moral Orel]

He has perfect free will - always choosing the best.

You said He "cannot choose" anything but the best. You even emphasized the "cannot" by saying it is part of what defines who God is.

So if A and B are His choices
And if A is better than B
And God cannot choose anything but the better option
Then God is incapable of choosing B

His will is limited; it is not free.

 

[trophy33]

You said He "cannot choose" anything but the best. You even emphasized the "cannot" by saying it is part of what defines who God is.

So if A and B are His choices
And if A is better than B
And God cannot choose anything but the better option
Then God is incapable of choosing B

His will is limited; it is not free.

Its just barrier of our language.

If you want to say that His will is limited, because He always inclines to what is best (and therefore cannot choose what is worse), I do not mind.
Because the limitation, in this context, just means you took away errors of will. Its like saying He is limited, because He cannot miss a bus. Its not really a limitation.

 

[Moral Orel]

Its just the limitation of our language.

If you want to say that His will is limited, because He always inclines to what is best (and therefore cannot choose what is worse), I do not mind.
Because the limitation, in this context, just means you took away errors of will.

What God is capable of choosing is limited, so His will is limited. His will is limited, so his will is not free.

Being capable of choosing from multiple options is what defines "free will", so God does not have free will.

 

[trophy33]

What God is capable of choosing is limited, so His will is limited. His will is limited, so his will is not free.

Being capable of choosing from multiple options is what defines "free will", so God does not have free will.

This is exactly how you can misuse various terms and bend various definitions to get yourself into absurd conclusions.