Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[Halbhh]

It is like God is teasing us because we experience some kind of suffering, people or God say that it is for his greater good and he has made up for it somehow, then that leads to suffering too, and the cycle goes on and on at least until death.

Suffering has several benefits past physical protection (i.e. learning by suffering not to eat harmful foods). Or learning not to offend and lose friends.

Suffering also helps us gain in compassion for others and depth of love.

We have much more compassion when others that suffer what we have experienced.

Suffering makes us forget meaningless things we were preoccupied with.

If we suffer intensely enough ( I have), it resets us, so we remember what matters most to us.

It helps us find ourselves

 

[partinobodycular]

Suffering also helps us gain in compassion for others and depth of love.

Let me go on record as saying that I'm not sold on this one. There are a lot of uncompassionate people out there, and I doubt that it's because they haven't suffered. Or perhaps you'd like God to crank the suffering up a bit. Maybe that would make folks more compassionate, but somehow I doubt it.

Suffering makes us forget meaningless things we were preoccupied with.

Sure, by giving us something worse to be preoccupied with.

If we suffer intensely enough ( I have), it resets us, so we remember what matters most to us.

Nothing like a good self-flagellation to get one's head on straight.

If suffering really did lead to compassion then you'd think that the world would be just overflowing with love and compassion, but oddly enough it isn't. So what were all those wars, plagues, and natural disasters good for?

 

[Halbhh]

There are a lot of uncompassionate people out there, and I doubt that it's because they haven't suffered.

That's right.

When a person can learn something, they might choose not to learn it...such as if they prefer their old way (their old ways that have obvious or subtle harms against other people).

Christ said:

"In everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

So, it's certainly correct that many will refuse to change even after having experiences that should help them to change.

Rather, suffering gives us a strong and easy opportunity to change for the better in our character.

It's like a door is opened. Suffering opens a door.

The person still has to choose whether to walk through.

 

[Halbhh]

the world would be just overflowing with love and compassion

You know, this made me wonder about recent trends.

But, turns out Americans continue to be charitable.

Or maybe the better wording is: "have become even more charitable"

Trends that Will Shape Philanthropy in 2022 | Giving USA

So...I think you should rethink that idea.

 

[Ken-1122]

Well, there are the simple examples: without pain receptors, a person is in very real and sharp danger, not being able to feel when they are damaging themselves, such as putting a hand on a hot stove top.

I never suggested we didn't have a need to feel pain, I said we don't need suffering.

 

[timothyu]

I said we don't need suffering.

Jesus' first followers were slaves, servants and women, poster folks of suffering. We ALL suffer at the hands of fellow man or has the last few years gone unnoticed especially the example of the oppressors who build back better for themselves.

 

[partinobodycular]

Or maybe the better wording is: "have become even more charitable"

Trends that Will Shape Philanthropy in 2022 | Giving USA

So...I think you should rethink that idea.

No, I think that it's you that should rethink. It seems rather obvious from your chart that charitable giving trends with the S&P 500. So as people feel wealthier they give more. Which is the exact opposite of your assertion that when they suffer more they give more.

I think that all that you have to do is look at the world around you to know that suffering doesn't lead to compassion. It leads to resentment, bitterness, and division.

The only thing that I know of that leads to compassion...is compassion. But if both suffering and compassion ultimately lead to compassion then the world should be overflowing with compassion. So obviously one of them doesn't...guess which one.

 

[timothyu]

Witnessing suffering can lead to either compassion, indifference, or a feeling of like mindedness as an oppressor.

 

[partinobodycular]

Witnessing suffering can lead to either compassion, indifference, or a feeling of like mindedness as an oppressor.

But does it cause it, or does it simply awaken that which was already there?

 

[timothyu]

But does it cause it, or does it simply awaken that which was already there?

I would say the latter

 

[partinobodycular]

I would say the latter

Me too. Which makes me wonder, show me dead bodies in Bucha and I won't feel anything, but show me a picture of an abused puppy and the feeling of compassion is palpable.

Am I odd, or is everyone like that?

 

[timothyu]

Am I odd, or is everyone like that?

I think we inherently know that as Garth and Wayne once said, we're not worthy compared to innocents..

 

[Ken-1122]

Jesus' first followers were slaves, servants and women, poster folks of suffering. We ALL suffer at the hands of fellow man or has the last few years gone unnoticed especially the example of the oppressors who build back better for themselves.

I build better for myself. I don't depend on the word of politicians; perhaps that's why I don't suffer.

 

[partinobodycular]

Suffering also helps us gain in compassion for others and depth of love.

I have a couple of problems with the idea that suffering helps us gain in compassion for others.

First, this is true of almost anything that helps us relate to someone else. Whether it's a shared upbringing, or a shared ideology, or just a shared hobby. Anything that helps us relate to someone else naturally increases our compassion for them. So suffering isn't any different than any other common life experiences, and thus attempting to justify it by suggesting that it somehow has this unique ability to heighten our compassion for others is a bit simplistic. Why justify suffering simply because it can do what any other common life experience can do, increase our understanding and empathy for others?

The only advantage that suffering has is that it's more universal. But that only means that suffering is only superior because there's so much of it. Is that what we've come to, caring for others only because we both suffer? What happens if you take that away, is that really the best reason that we have to care?

Second, everyone suffers, but unless I'm somehow unique, we feel real genuine compassion for but a few of them. Why? How much of the world's suffering are we blissfully indifferent to, even when it's graphically displayed for us on the nightly news? Oh, we can intellectually affirm our compassion for others, but we can just as quickly rescind that intellectual compassion if we somehow deem its recipient to be unworthy of it, for whatever transgression we happen to take offense to.

Does suffering really increase our compassion for others? The idealistic answer is that it should, but the realistic answer is that it really doesn't appear to.

As I've stated before, to me the greatest progenitor of compassion...is compassion.

 

[Gottservant]

Yes, pain saves.

Better yet someone suffering for you!

Jesus?