Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

[squint]

Rom 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Ask yourself this question when was the last time a speaker stood up in your local church and quoted this to affirm it - rather than to try and survive it?

Most honest preachers are against sin, and rightfully so.

Not too many stumble into the error that they are sinless.

they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

-------------------------

is God warning the fully forgiven saved saints that they cannot obey and thus must be removed

Read what happened to the JEWS in Romans 11. How were they 'cut off?'

Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear ; ) unto this day.

Does anything there indicate they will be eternally killed (or burned alive forever?)

Uh, no.

as were the unbelieving now-lost Jews?

Paul identifies that God has not abandoned them in Romans 11:1 just to set that record straight.

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid."

Obviously you are seeing an almost exactly opposite conclusion than Paul made.

is it the impossible that God is asking for - even for saved saints who have access to the indwelling Holy Spirit??[

is that the Gospel? or is that simply bad doctrine that does not fit the text?

Reading waaayyyy beyond the text is common. Were the blinded of Israel 'cut off?' Of course they were. Was that to their eternal detriment?

Never.

Why then were they blinded? Again from Romans 11:

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

There is only ONE measure believers are obligated to convey to the blinded Jews:

Again, Romans 11:

"Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."

If you believe they will receive MERCY then you should believe your intentions will be answered.

s

 

[bottomofsandal]

how to lose salvation??



"According to the text"

Is God asking in Matt 18 that the fully forgiven do what they "cannot do" - can never do?? Can only do if they are infinite God?

Is God telling the fully forgiven in Matt 18 that he will revoke their forgiveness because they fail to do what only God can do and not even the saints are enabled to obey so they must have their forgiveness revoked?

Is that what the text says -- or is that how bad doctrine would have it??

in Christ,

Bob

Your explanation of the text is spurious.



Our RC brethren use this passage for Purgatory.

If you want to exclude hyperbole, figurative, or a learning narrative, we can look at the face value of the passage in question. It is a stretch to portray this as anti-OSAS, you have not constructed any correlation whatsoever, just repeatedly cutting and pasting verses.



The passage is not definite about losing salvation anyway. Rather sin will have to be paid for (as if Jesus did not pay the price) by torment or torture. Once the sin is paid for, salvation is regained. The passage says the debt, the amount due, etc even the last penny...this speaks to finality. IOW, salvation is never lost, just postponed until our account is flush with God.





Matthew 18:34New King James Version (NKJV)

34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

 

[Erose]

Galatians 5:14 (NKJV)

14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself."



I know you believe this command. Jesus tells us in John 13:34 to love another. Paul emphasizes BYKOTA. The perfect standard held forth by God is perfect Sacrificial, merciful, forgiving love done with the humility of Christ.


There is constant failure. No one can love like God commands because no one can love their enemies as they love themself all the time. No one can or will love God with ALL 100 percent of their heart mind soul and strength. To love in this manner is to call oneself God, since God alone can love in this capacity.


When a man commends himself and says he loves like God commands, other sinful men who serve God and struggle with the perfect law of God wonder what this brother is thinking. To say we love like God is a form of pride , and pride is a sin. We love God, and we love our neighbor.......just not as well as we give ourselves credit for, and certainly not as God commands.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. Jesus tells us there is no greater love than one who is willing to give up his life for a friend. Love is gift, pure love is pure gift, or giving oneself completely to another. All of have the capacity to love this much. Why because God is love and His love fills the whole universe, because well He is love.

Anyway we have many great examples of men and women sacrificing themselves for either God and/or men. The martyrs throughout the history of the Church is a perfect example of this perfect love. Even today we have so many examples of men and women who prefer to die (and do) than to deny their love for God. We see men and women who give up their lives to follow Christ and to serve Him and their fellow man.

Is this love easy to do? No. Is it possible? Yes. How do we cultivate this love in our lives? Through prayer and practice. St. Teresa of Avila used the person who aggravated her the most in her life to help her grow stronger in love. Whenever this aggravating woman would insult her and pick on her, she would return insults with praise. She would put herself in situations were she had opportunities to serve her, etc. After a while she began to realize that it was no longer a task to serve this woman, but rather a pleasure, and the woman eventually learned to love Teresa as well.

Another example is St. Damien, who volunteered to become the pastor of a community of lepers in Hawaii, even though knowing that he would most probably get the disease. Anyway he goes to this island, and with the help from the lepers he built a small church, and brought hope to these men and women. Eventually he did get and died from lepersy. But he loved and cared for his flock until the disease claimed him.

Anyway there are thousands and thousands of examples of men and women from all walks of life growing this type of love, so I will have to disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment that we cannot love that much.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. Jesus tells us there is no greater love than one who is willing to give up his life for a friend. Love is gift, pure love is pure gift, or giving oneself completely to another. All of have the capacity to love this much. Why because God is love and His love fills the whole universe, because well He is love.

You and I are both still alive...



Surrendering some time some of the time is admirable.

Our love is not God's love, our vessels cannot contain His love.

You keep insisting we can be identical to God and love exactly like God.


You are forgetting we are made in His likeness/image.

To believe what you believe means no improvement after we die.

We have maxed out, there is no upgrade, this is as good as it gets...



You are already all that you can be ???

 

[Erose]

You and I are both still alive...



Surrendering some time some of the time is admirable.

Do you think that this love just pops up during those trials? Most people would worship at the feet of Ceasar, instead of loosing their lives. The Saints and martyrs surrendered to God well before their lives were taken.

Our love is not God's love, our vessels cannot contain His love.

I disagree. The Holy Spirit fills us. We contain God's love within us, if we live in His grace. The problem is most of us don't realize this, thus we hide Him like putting a lamp under a basket.

You keep insisting we can be identical to God and love exactly like God.

we are called to be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. We are called to love one another as Jesus loves us.

You are forgetting we are made in His likeness/image.

Quite honestly if anyone is forgetting that fact, it isn't me.

To believe what you believe means no improvement after we die.

We have maxed out, there is no upgrade, this is as good as it gets...



You are already all that you can be ???

I disagree. I do believe we can taste heaven here on earth, but the fullness we cannot experience until we see Him face to face. When we no longer need faith or hope; only charity.

 

[Water Cross]

Christians do not sin. That is what the scriptures tell us. One would have to know how that applies in order to understand the true import of that fact.

Meanwhile, you preach to people here from what you understand as a Catholic perspective. While attempting to judge me and others based on your understanding of the word of God.

If you believe OSAS is a myth your knowledge is flawed. And your judgment then is without credibility.

The moral laws of God are still in effect. Righteous living has never been put asunder, as Jesus told us in Matthew 5:18. Heaven and earth have not passed away and as such the moral law still applies.
Jesus accomplished those rites dictated by the ceremonial law when he became the propitiation for our sins. The lamb slain for the sins of the world.
While the civil law was cultural and since we are Christian and not Jew that does not apply either.

Further, while you state that Paul was eloquent in delivering his letters to the churches to whom he wrote, I'd suggest you read Romans 8.

And finally, there is no problem with the Jews. Jesus was a Jew. And prior to his return after the third day, they were his chosen people. They were why he arrived here. To save the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The problem is with that Catholic that imagines there is a problem with Jews.

Why do you think that the Commandments are a burden? The reality is that they are quite the opposite. Their intent was never to be a burden, but rather to liberate us. Our natural state is sinlessness. If Adam and Eve never fell, they would have been without sin, which is the natural state of humanity.

When I became serious about my faith and began to strive to be perfect as my Father in heaven is perfect, I have never felt so free and liberated and happy. The happiest people are those who keep the Commandments and the saddest of folks are those chained to sin. The intent of the Commandments were to help us break those chains, and become truly free.

The problem with the Jews is they forgot the most important part of the Commandments which is love, and trying to keep the Commandments without love is burdensome, for the intent is false. Christ's teaching corrected that false idea by emphasizing the Commandments are truly the love of God and neighbor. Only people who do not have true love of God and neighbor find the Commandments burdensome; while those who truly Love God and neighbor find them liberating.

The fact is the Commandments are not chains, rather they are hammers and chisels to break the true chains of sin.

 

[BobRyan]

It has been pointed out that the tradition of OSAS does not survive even one of the texts listed on this thread at this post.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7828521-53/#post65913382

If you believe OSAS is a myth your knowledge is flawed. And your judgment then is without credibility.

Which though condemning of others - does not solve the problem for OSAS in trying to get it to survive the texts "sola scriptura".

There is no limit to the bad doctrine that can be had by ignoring the texts that refute it.

The moral laws of God are still in effect. Righteous living has never been put asunder, as Jesus told us in Matthew 5:18. Heaven and earth have not passed away and as such the moral law still applies.

Agreed. A very good point.

Which is why the Matt 18 and Ezek 18 examples were listed in that list of texts that OSAS does not survive.

Jesus accomplished those rites dictated by the ceremonial law when he became the propitiation for our sins. The lamb slain for the sins of the world.
While the civil law was cultural and since we are Christian and not Jew that does not apply either.

Agreed. Another excellent point and it is also made in section 19 of both the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of Faith as well as other documents and sources noted in my signature line below.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Rajni]

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

It probably depends on the individual, but my own experience with an
on-again-off-again soteriological structure is that one never knows if they've
accidentally bumped into the on/off switch that controls their salvation,
turning it off inadvertently by doing so.

-

 

[BobRyan]

how to lose salvation??

In Matt 18 even a determined spirit of unforgiveness will do it as we saw here.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7828521-53/#post65913382

Matt 18
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

"According to the text"

Is God asking in Matt 18 that the fully forgiven do what they "cannot do" - can never do?? Can only do if they are infinite God?

Is God telling the fully forgiven in Matt 18 that he will revoke their forgiveness because they fail to do what only God can do and not even the saints are enabled to obey so they must have their forgiveness revoked?

Is that what the text says -- or is that how bad doctrine would have it??

Your explanation of the text is spurious.

It is easier to make the accusation than to prove it true.

Our RC brethren use this passage for Purgatory.

If you want to exclude hyperbole, figurative, or a learning narrative, we can look at the face value of the passage in question.

I prefer "the details" in the text regardless of who chooses to use the text in some other way.

It is a stretch to portray this as anti-OSAS,

Aside from the obvious detail that one "fully forgiven" then experiences "forgiveness revoked" and must pay the full -- original - debt.

And that Christ then extends that same result to the saved saints that are His disciples - the "fully forgiven".

Jesus Himself gave us the correlation

you have not constructed any correlation whatsoever

Indeed - I am not the author of the text -- I give all the credit to Jesus.

The passage is not definite about losing salvation

To imagine salvation that means "not forgiven and paying your own debt" is to imagine "another gospel".

Rather sin will have to be paid for (as if Jesus did not pay the price) by torment or torture. Once the sin is paid for, salvation is regained.

If the saved have all of their forgiveness revoked and then must pay their own debt of sin in full - they will not survive it according to Matt 10:28. You don't come back from that according to the text.

The passage says the debt, the amount due, etc even the last penny...this speaks to finality.

Indeed. The lost sinner pays his full debt of sin in the lake of Fire mentioned in Rev 20.

In Luke 12:45-49 Christ said that some who go to hell pay with few stripes and others with many.

But all pay - and all will pay "in full".

Here is the one verse snippet you were willing to quote from Matt 18

Matthew 18:34New King James Version (NKJV)

34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

But a more expanded form is "instructive".

Matt 18
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


Even in your own account above this is "forgiveness revoked".

And even in your own account above you admit that the sinner in this case must repay his full debt of sin.

For non-Catholics inventing somthing like "purgatory" is not even an option.

And that only leaves one option - the fact that OSAS does not survive Matt 18.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

So then in Gal 5:4 "you have been severed from Christ - fallen from grace" -- is Paul making a horrible mistake? Declaring a warning that will only hinder the growth of the saints?

Really?

And did Paul make that mistake again in Romans 11?

Rom 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.



Remember that there is no limit to the bad doctrine that could be had by ignoring the texts that refute it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Ask yourself this question when was the last time a speaker stood up in your local church and quoted this to affirm it - rather than to try and survive it?



they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

-------------------------

is God warning the fully forgiven saved saints that they cannot obey and thus must be removed as were the unbelieving now-lost Jews? is it the impossible that God is asking for - even for saved saints who have access to the indwelling Holy Spirit??

is that the Gospel? or is that simply bad doctrine that does not fit the text?

Most honest preachers are against sin, and rightfully so.

So then if they speak against wife-beating or spouse-cheating or inappropriate content or... do they say "not that you can stop this for even one second - but I would like you to think that as you do this - it is a bad thing"???

Is that all they are saying as they avoid Romans 11 and its warning to "you who stand by your faith"?

Read what happened to the JEWS in Romans 11. How were they 'cut off?'

[/font]Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear ; ) unto this day.

And more than that - we know that the majority of the Jews of Paul's day died in unbelief. lost.

To this very day a great many go to the grave as unbelievers... lost.

Does anything there indicate they will be eternally killed (or burned alive forever?)

Are you preaching against eternal hell as if just burning them for a few days in the Lake of Fire then destroyed both body and soul for all eternity is a good ending for them?

or are you preaching re-incarnation and "another chance to accept the Gospel" no matter what Christ said in Luke 16 and Heb 9 to the contrary? Mormonism?

What is that you are saying??

Why then were they blinded? Again from Romans 11:

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

In Romans 11 Paul states explicitly that this only saved "some of them".

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.

"It is appointed unto man once to die and THEN comes the judgment" Heb 9.

No second chance in death.

those Jews who in Paul's day - and today - died as rejecting Christ - were lost.

Paul never states that the Jews were in some odd "saved state" while willfully and knowingly rejecting Christ.

RATHER Paul says "IF they do not CONTINUE in UNBELIEF" they can be grafted in again. But only in that case.

Clearly OSAS does not survive these details in the Rom 11 text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Erose]

Christians do not sin. That is what the scriptures tell us. One would have to know how that applies in order to understand the true import of that fact.

Funny, most OSAS folks here tell me the direct opposite. Which is it?

Anyway the proper way to say it is: Christians should not sin, the problem is most of us still still sin.

Meanwhile, you preach to people here from what you understand as a Catholic perspective. While attempting to judge me and others based on your understanding of the word of God.

Look that ploy didn't work when Squint tried it, to shut me up. We are talking ideas, not the condition of one's soul. Are you guys that scared of someone challenging this false man-made 100 year old concept?

If you believe OSAS is a myth your knowledge is flawed. And your judgment then is without credibility.

pretty hypocritical of you is it not? You accuse me of judging, and yet you turn around and do what you are accusing me of.

The moral laws of God are still in effect. Righteous living has never been put asunder, as Jesus told us in Matthew 5:18. Heaven and earth have not passed away and as such the moral law still applies.
Jesus accomplished those rites dictated by the ceremonial law when he became the propitiation for our sins. The lamb slain for the sins of the world.
While the civil law was cultural and since we are Christian and not Jew that does not apply either.

Ok, but there are many OSAS folks here would disagree vehemently with you.

Further, while you state that Paul was eloquent in delivering his letters to the churches to whom he wrote, I'd suggest you read Romans 8.

I have. Thank you for the advice. I suggest you read. Galatians 5 and Exekiel 18.

And finally, there is no problem with the Jews. Jesus was a Jew. And prior to his return after the third day, they were his chosen people. They were why he arrived here. To save the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The problem is with that Catholic that imagines there is a problem with Jews.

We are speaking about ideas, and the ideas of the time that Jesus preached against. You don't believe me, I suggest reading the Gospels.

 

[Water Cross]

Funny, most OSAS folks here tell me the direct opposite. Which is it?


Anyway the proper way to say it is: Christians should not sin, the problem is most of us still still sin.

The only way to say it has already been said by Jesus.

1John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

1 John 5:18, "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him."

Look that ploy didn't work when Squint tried it, to shut me up. We are talking ideas, not the condition of one's soul. Are you guys that scared of someone challenging this false man-made 100 year old concept?

Now we know your true colors. Thank you.
Just a word of advice because I know the history of the RCC. I wouldn't attack others and claim they're following man made concepts if I were Catholic.

I'll not pursue a conversation with an offensive papist who is using this ploy to attack non-Catholics.

God forgive you.

 

[Erose]

The only way to say it has already been said by Jesus.

1John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

1 John 5:18, "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him."

Uh, that letter was written not by Jesus but by St. John, and you taking a few verses out of context doesn't help your cause. In fact I would recommend reading the letter, and you will find just in the first chapter: [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
So either St. John contradicted himself, or you misunderstood the context by which these verses were written.

Now we know your true colors. Thank you.
Just a word of advice because I know the history of the RCC. I wouldn't attack others and claim they're following man made concepts if I were Catholic.

Why wouldn't I argue against false teachings? Why do folks who have no argument, resort to insupportable claims about someone else's faith?

I'll not pursue a conversation with an offensive papist who is using this ploy to attack non-Catholics.

Again, I'm not attacking you, but rather the false understanding you have, about justification; unless you are OSAS itself, then I am arguing against you.

God forgive you.

I pray so as well, and ditto; of yeah I forgot you don't sin. Perhaps you and Squint ought to get together, and compare notes, since you believe Christians don't sin, and he believes Christians can't help from sinning, and you are both OSAS'ers.

Just something to think about. If you come to a forum, that provides a platform to debate various theological concepts and doctrines, it may be advisable to expect people to challenge your beliefs, and be ready to defend them. If you can't defend them perhaps it is advisable to re-evaluate that position, to either learn that position better or perhaps realize that position is indefensible. Either way you should be able to grow from these discussions.

 

[BobRyan]

Just something to think about. If you come to a forum, that provides a platform to debate various theological concepts and doctrines, it may be advisable to expect people to challenge your beliefs, and be ready to defend them. If you can't defend them perhaps it is advisable to re-evaluate that position, to either learn that position better or perhaps realize that position is indefensible. Either way you should be able to grow from these discussions.

Good advice.

And add to it the caution - that "there is no limit to the bad doctrine that can be had by avoiding the Bible texts that refute it".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[SolomonVII]

I pray so as well, and ditto; of yeah I forgot you don't sin. Perhaps you and Squint ought to get together, and compare notes, since you believe Christians don't sin, and she believes Christians can't help from sinning, and you are both OSAS'ers.

....

I was always under the impression that squint was a dude. Checking further, I certainly hope that is correct, sinces squints occupation on his home page is listed as grandpa.

 

[mercy1061]

Uh, that letter was written not by Jesus but by St. John, and you taking a few verses out of context doesn't help your cause. In fact I would recommend reading the letter, and you will find just in the first chapter: [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
So either St. John contradicted himself, or you misunderstood the context by which these verses were written.
Why wouldn't I argue against false teachings? Why do folks who have no argument, resort to insupportable claims about someone else's faith?

Again, I'm not attacking you, but rather the false understanding you have, about justification; unless you are OSAS itself, then I am arguing against you.

I pray so as well, and ditto; of yeah I forgot you don't sin. Perhaps you and Squint ought to get together, and compare notes, since you believe Christians don't sin, and she believes Christians can't help from sinning, and you are both OSAS'ers.

Just something to think about. If you come to a forum, that provides a platform to debate various theological concepts and doctrines, it may be advisable to expect people to challenge your beliefs, and be ready to defend them. If you can't defend them perhaps it is advisable to re-evaluate that position, to either learn that position better or perhaps realize that position is indefensible. Either way you should be able to grow from these discussions.

Whom inside Israel was cut off because of unblief?

 

[Erose]

I was always under the impression that squint was a dude. Checking further, I certainly hope that is correct, sinces squints occupation on his home page is listed as grandpa.

I stand corrected Solomon, sorry Squint. Fixed the uh oh.

 

[Erose]

Whom inside Israel was cut off because of unblief?

We have not been discussing that question. So perhaps you could clarify what you are asking? Such as what do you mean by cut off. Cut off from whom, from Israel or God or both? And how this question is relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[BobRyan]

Whom inside Israel was cut off because of unblief?

Jews that rejected the Gospel as we see in Romans 11. (Post 651 above)

And saved saints are being warned in Romans 11 that they too will be cut off if they fail to persevere in the faith as Christians.

in Christ,

Bob