Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[mark wright]

I knew growing up Baptist that something didn't jive with hearing about the Sabbath of the Bible and us worshipping on Sunday but I couldn't formulate it at the time into a query as I was still young and didn't know many things about spirituality. Later in life, when I was far from God and living with and for the world, I came upon a website that stated that it was the Papacy that changed the day from the 7th day Sabbath to the 1st day Sunday... it immediately change my life and I have spent the last 12 years seeking the truth that was never taught to me in Protestantism.

Bottom line, I knew in my heart that something wasn't right and when I was exposed to the truth, my soul recognized it.

I'm not sure you answered the question.
Doug bachelor, when asked to name a difference between the old and new covenant repled under the new covenant the law is written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. He is scripturally correct. This means through that law being placed in your mind you instinctively know what that law is and in your heart you want to obey it.
Through the law we become conscious of sin. Therefore, through the law placed within us, we are conscious we sin when we break it.
Once I became a christian I knew in my mind I sinned if i bore false witness, stole, murdered, coveted, committed adultery, coveted/ lusted. I did not need to read the letter of the law to know I committed sin if I would do any of those things, for those laws had been placed within me. However, I was not conscious I committed sin if I failed to specifically observe a Saturday Sabbath.
So my question to you is this.
Did you believe you should observe a Saturday Sabbath because you knew the letter of the biblical law? Is it that knowledge that brought you to believe you are commanded to obey a Saturday Sabbath?

 

[sparow]

"most" is pretty much an; 'in the eye of the beholder', opinion IMO. But, also IMO, we could all stand to learn 'a truth' we don't have, if we'd simply spend more time with others finding out 'what they truly believe'....and 'WHY they truly believe' what they believe.

FYI I spent every Wednesday afternoon with my SDA neighbor and his pastor, at the 'invite' of my neighbor, until he moved 6 months later. It was delightful, even though we had many disagreements over "Biblical teaching". The neighbor was an purveyor books on line. One day he even came to me to give me an original 1855 hard backed copy of a book by Thomas Thayer which supported one of 'my heresies'...in his opinion. But then, what else could he do with it? Sell it to someone who might be INFLUENCED by its teaching!!!! After several months of intermittently discussing my heresy, you know what his 'end comments' became?; "I hope you're right."

The Bible teaching is only The Father has authority and only Jesus is the teacher, and if one follows men the destination is the ditch. The word of God is the bread of life and a good discussion with men can be chewing the cud. I have studied Revelation and Daniel with he SDA and this opened up a new world for me but I don't agree with there every view; they are not the authority God is.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I'm not sure you answered the question.
Doug bachelor, when asked to name a difference between the old and new covenant repled under the new covenant the law is written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. He is scripturally correct. This means through that law being placed in your mind you instinctively know what that law is and in your heart you want to obey it.
Through the law we become conscious of sin. Therefore, through the law placed within us, we are conscious we sin when we break it.
Once I became a christian I knew in my mind I sinned if i bore false witness, stole, murdered, coveted, committed adultery, coveted/ lusted. I did not need to read the letter of the law to know I committed sin if I would do any of those things, for those laws had been placed within me. However, I was not conscious I committed sin if I failed to specifically observe a Saturday Sabbath.
So my question to you is this.
Did you believe you should observe a Saturday Sabbath because you knew the letter of the biblical law? Or, did you believe you should observe a Saturday Sabbath before you knew what the biblical letter of the lo aw stated?

As I stated, as soon as I knew the truth of the Sabbath I was compelled to observe. The same as if I was told growing up that telling white lies was ok just don't tell whoppers. I would believe that until I was made aware that every lie is deception and wrong. Even though I was lied to about the Sabbath, I observed it growing up; ie, no sports, no real worldly stuff, just fellowship and service Sunday morning and evening. It was a day of rest for us... just not the right day as it turns out.

 

[Rescued One]

So how does an Adventist become sinless?

 

[Rescued One]

As I stated, as soon as I knew the truth of the Sabbath I was compelled to observe. The same as if I was told growing up that telling white lies was ok just don't tell whoppers. I would believe that until I was made aware that every lie is deception and wrong. Even though I was lied to about the Sabbath, I observed it growing up; ie, no sports, no real worldly stuff, just fellowship and service Sunday morning and evening. It was a day of rest for us... just not the right day as it turns out.

But you were observing Sunday, not the seventh day.

 

[mark wright]

As I stated, as soon as I knew the truth of the Sabbath I was compelled to observe. The same as if I was told growing up that telling white lies was ok just don't tell whoppers. I would believe that until I was made aware that every lie is deception and wrong. Even though I was lied to about the Sabbath, I observed it growing up; ie, no sports, no real worldly stuff, just fellowship and service Sunday morning and evening. It was a day of rest for us... just not the right day as it turns out.

So you believed youmust observe a specific Saturday Sabbath for you knew what the letter of the law stated concerning that commandment. Thank you for answering

 

[Goodbook]

I thought Jesus angel was Immanuel, not Michael. As it says in the bible.

Not sure where people get the idea that Jesus is Michael from. The JWs?

Anyway, am not a hater. The only interaction I have with SDAs apart from this site is them stealing our vegetables From the community garden and then refusing to come to our working bee on saturday so they can have some.

Oh and also at a sausage sizzle one guy came up to us and said bacon was unclean, so we didnt give him a bacon sandwhich. He bought a sausage instead. And I do know they rent out the baptist church on saturdays. Which is why the baptist church cant have a working bee on saturday cos they using it.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

But you were observing Sunday, not the seventh day.

I was a child and did what my parents did... but yes, we observed it as the Sabbath, more or less... we didn't do the sundown to sundown thing.

 

[mmksparbud]

So how does an Adventist become sinless?

Same way everybody else does!
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom_6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom_6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom_6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom_6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom_6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom_7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom_7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom_7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom_7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Rescued One]

But the Lord is portrayed as an angel of God, correct? So how can you say with 100% certainty that Michael isn't the preincarnate Jesus?

Appearing in a theophany as an angel isn't being an angel.

When Jesus comes in the clouds with the voice of the Archangel, do you suppose He is getting someone else to speak for Him even though it is His moment of triumph?

Do you suppose an archangel is the Only Begotten Son of God?

Maybe you don't understand that arch means head of or chief, which of course Christ is. To say that Michael is a created angel belies his name does it not? Michael means "who is like God". Are you suggesting that a created angel is like God?

I know what an archangel is. To you, is an archangel an angel? Are SDAs forbidden to name their children Michael?

 

[Rescued One]

I was a child and did what my parents did... but yes, we observed it as the Sabbath, more or less... we didn't do the sundown to sundown thing.

I'm not faulting you for observing Sunday as the Lord's Day, but it isn't the Sabbath. And many non-SDAs observe Sunday the way you described.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So you believed youmust observe a specific Saturday Sabbath for you knew what the letter of the law stated concerning that commandment. Thank you for answering

Yes just as I knew it was wrong to lie because my tanned backside testified of it. I knew murder was wrong because I was told so. I learned not to bow to false idols by reading about it in the Bible during Sunday school....

 

[Rescued One]

Same way everybody else does!
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom_6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom_6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom_6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom_6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom_6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom_7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom_7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom_7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom_7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Really? That doesn't precisely answer my question. Is the following no longer true?

"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression" Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Appearing in a theophany as an angel isn't being an angel.

Point is, the Bible does refer to the Lord as an angel of God, so why not the head of the angels?

Do you suppose an archangel is the Only Begotten Son of God?

I believe thee Archangel is.

I know what an archangel is. To you, is an archangel an angel? Are SDAs forbidden to name their children Michael?

Of course Christ is not an created angel... He is their Leader, hence Arch*. I don't know of any group that considers their child's name in the Biblical sense, do you?

 

[mmksparbud]

Nobody is saying Jesus is an angel---He is CALLED the angel of the Lord-Joshua and Moses bowed and worshipped Him, nothing any angel would ever permit--not even Gabriel-- no angel ever asked for a man to remove his shoes because the ground he stood on was holy-Only God. It is a TITLE.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I'm not faulting you for observing Sunday as the Lord's Day, but it isn't the Sabbath. And many non-SDAs observe Sunday the way you described.

Unfortunately, the 1st day is not what God Sanctified and hallowed at Creation... the 7th day is. The day we are Commanded to observe.

 

[mark wright]

Yes just as I knew it was wrong to lie because my tanned backside testified of it. I knew murder was wrong because I was told so. I learned not to bow to false idols by reading about it in the Bible during Sunday school....

And you knew you should observe a Saturday Sabbath because you knew the letter of the fourth commandment.
The problem is, as Doug bachelor agrees the law is written on the mind and placed on the heart of the christian. Therefore there is no hiding from That law. A christian must be aware of what that law is and be conscious they commit sin if they break it.
Therefore, if a person who goes to church on a sunday has no heartfelt conviction they commit sin by failing to observe a saturday Sabbath, only one of two things are possible, Either that specific law has not been written on their mind and placed on their heart, or they cannot be a christian.
But seventh day adventists accept people as Christians who are not conscious they sin by failing to observe a Saturday Sabbath.
That is not possible, if your view of Sabbath is correct

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Really? That doesn't precisely answer my question. Is the following no longer true?

"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression" Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118.

Not to speak for mmksparbud but it is totally true. How could it not be if sin is the transgression of the Law. I we are in complete obedience to the Law, having repented and received pardon then we are without sin, not of our own strength and merit but through the Holy Spirit and the Faith of Jesus.

 

[mmksparbud]

Really? That doesn't precisely answer my question. Is the following no longer true?

"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression" Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118.

These are quotes by EGW

that by grace alone can they be saved, through faith, which is the gift of God.

he himself is saved by grace alone.

While we are to be in harmony with God’s law, we are not saved by the works of the law,FW 95.3

It is always by grace-however, no one that breaks the law of God, and is unrepentant, will ever get into God's kingdom.
As you quoted---and with the proper emphases--
"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression"'

It is through faith in Christ that we obey, it is out of love for Him.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

And you knew you should observe a Saturday Sabbath because you knew the letter of the fourth commandment.
The problem is, as Doug bachelor agrees the law is written on the mind and placed on the heart of the christian. Therefore there is no hiding from That law. A christian must be aware of what that law is and be conscious they commit sin if they break it.
Therefore, if a person who goes to church on a sunday has no heartfelt conviction they commit sin by failing to observe a saturday Sabbath, only one of two things are possible, Either that specific law has not been written on their mind and placed on their heart, or they cannot be a christian.
But seventh day adventists accept people as Christians who are not conscious they sin by failing to observe a Saturday Sabbath.
That is not possible, if your view of Sabbath is correct

How did you know what sin was? Did you inherently know it or were you taught it?

We are expected to live up to the light revealed to us as God winks in our times of ignorance.

Do I consider 90%+ of the professed Christians in the world to be children of God... no. By their fruits you shall know them. Are they beyond salvation?... again no but only through repentance and turning away from sin.