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It was the lost who Jesus was talking to which is every persons condition from birth.He didn't say man is incapable of coming to Jesus. Jesus said, to those He was speaking with that no one could come to Him unless the Father drew them. He wasn't speaking to all mankind. He was speaking to a group of people. How does that effect anyone other than those He was speaking to?
Here is what Scripture teaches below. Not my teaching its Scripture.
Mans inability to come to God apart from Him
John 3:19, "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."
John 3:27, "John answered and said, 'A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven.'"
John 6:44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:65, "And He was saying, ‘For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.’"
John 8:34, "Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
Rom. 3:10-12, "as it is written, ‘There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless. There is none who does good, there is not even one.’"
Rom. 6:20, "For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness."
Rom. 8:7, "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so."
1 Cor. 2:14, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
Eph. 2:1, "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins."
Eph. 2:3, "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."
God must enable man to come to Him. It is the work of God !
John 1:12-13, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
John 6:28-29, "Therefore they said to Him, 'What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?' 29 Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.'"
John 6:44, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:65, "And He was saying, 'For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.'"
Acts 13:48, "When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
Romans 8:29–30, “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
Eph. 1:4, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love."
Eph. 1:5, "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will."
Eph. 1:11, "also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."
Phil. 1:29, "For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake."
2 Thess. 2:13, "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth."
2 Tim. 1:9, "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."
2 Tim. 2:24-25, "The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth."
hope this helps !!!
Interesting since He was speaking to the Jews who are God's people. He was speaking to people who had a covenant with God. You see, this is the problem with the ism's, one begins to mold Scripture to fit them. The best way to learn what the Scriptures teach is to forget everything you've learned and start with a blank slate. Otherwise, you're just reading the Scriptures through colored glassesIt was the lost who Jesus was talking to which is every persons condition from birth.
Are you claiming absolutely no bias when you read the bible ?Interesting since He was speaking to the Jews who are God's people. He was speaking to people who had a covenant with God. You see, this is the problem with the ism's, one begins to mold Scripture to fit them. The best way to learn what the Scriptures teach is to forget everything you've learned and start with a blank slate. Otherwise, you're just reading the Scriptures through colored glasses
Are you claiming absolutely no bias when you read the bible ?
I do which is why I'm no longer arminianJust what I said. Put aside your beliefs and read the Bible with a clean slate. Let the Bible speak.
Free will is not free unless unlimited.You appear to be implying that limited choices prevents freewill choices.
Only after the new birth.How could choices become unlimited?
Only after the new birth.
If you did, you'd know that both ism's are wrong. That you hold one shows you didn'tI do which is why I'm no longer arminian
It actually does show that I'm teachable and open minded, any more fallacious arguments you would like to make ?If you did, you'd know that both ism's are wrong. That you hold one shows you didn't
It actually does show that I'm teachable and open minded, any more fallacious arguments you would like to make ?
I didn't say you weren't teachable. But, if you're believing the ism's it shows you haven't set aside all of you preconceptions. Someone who is teachable and open minded can be taught things that are wrong. Likewise they can draw incorrect conclusions.It actually does show that I'm teachable and open minded, any more fallacious arguments you would like to make ?
There are things I'm closed minded on such as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, the gospel, the bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Christ, salvation by grace through faith just to name a few. There are essential truths which cannot be denied as a believer IMHO.open minded could be considered fallaciousI find true open mindedness hard to achieve.
I didn't say you weren't teachable. But, if you're believing the ism's it shows you haven't set aside all of you preconceptions. Someone who is teachable and open minded can be taught things that are wrong. Likewise they can draw incorrect conclusions.
That there is this constant back and forth between Calvinists and Arminians shows that both sides are wrong. Both sides have passages they think support their beliefs. However, both sides have passages they can't reconcile with their beliefs. So, it winds up being a matter of numbers. Which side can find the most passages that they believe support their side. That's not how to rightly divided the word. You know you're correct when "ALL" of the passages fit with what you believe.
There are things I'm closed minded on such as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, the gospel, the bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Christ, salvation by grace through faith just to name a few. There are essential truths which cannot be denied as a believer IMHO.
There are things I'm closed minded on such as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, the gospel, the bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Christ, salvation by grace through faith just to name a few. There are essential truths which cannot be denied as a believer IMHO.
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