Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[nightmares]

And that makes zero sense

1. The first to die under any such "logic" would be Satan

2. If Satan is killed there is no Fall and billions don't come here

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @nightmares, I asked you these simple questions in response to the things that you'd just said........

1. What is the "Good News" of Jesus that you are sharing with others right now, and why, as Tony's OP title asks, did He have to suffer and die when He came here? Why is that "Good News"?

Thanks

--David
p.s. - BTW, the whole of humanity doesn't deserve to die because of our first parents' disobedience and sin, the whole of humanity deserves to die because we've all sinned personally, every mother's son of us.

.............. but you replied with the following instead of answering them.

No, humanity does not deserve to die
That is something Satan would say

I'd love to understand what you meant/what you were actually trying to tell us, and you choosing to answer the questions that I asked you will help me do just that

Thanks!

--David

 

[nightmares]

St Worm2 said: "the whole of humanity deserves to die because we've all sinned personally, every mother's son of us"

And my response to that is No, humanity does not deserve to die
That is something Satan would say


And that is enough from me on this meaningless day. Back for more on meaningless tomorrow

 

[St_Worm2]

St Worm2 said: "the whole of humanity deserves to die because we've all sinned personally, every mother's son of us"

And my response to that is No, humanity does not deserve to die
That is something Satan would say

You responded to a final point that I made in my post, NOT to any of the questions that I asked you (about the things that you'd just said/said you were doing). Why

Nevertheless, I replied to what you said, and pointed out to you that it is the Bible that says such things, and that such things are NEVER said by Satan. It is, in point of fact, God Himself, in the first Person, that is, who says the very things to us that you are claiming only Satan would say!!

--David

 

[Divide]

I'm talking about the idea that humans choose between God and Satan on a daily basis

That makes no sense whatsoever to me and that's what I mean by letting us out and giving us a proper choice

Because really what is accomplished by having us go to sleep and doing it all again no matter what we do

Yep. So every decision that you have to make on a daily basis is a test. A test to see what you choose and if you choose the best way or not. Life is 10% what it deals you in the cards, and 90% how you react to it. So you have a proper choice. You can choose anything you want to. But is it within the will of God or not? That is the question.

And it's not free will if there are two choices with one being "right" and the other being "sin"

Do you not understand that you are living in a damaged creation? That God is a just and holy God? God knows that as damaged as we already were that we can not do this by ourself. He came and died to pay the penalty for us so that we can live and learn and be redeemed. But we are so damaged that He can't just wave His wand and make everything perfect again without wiping our personality out completely. That's why the Sanctification process take place over a period of time. So when we get to heaven we will still be us with our individuality and personality.

Because for example you can stay at home and fruitlessly try to find someone on dating apps or you could risk your soul by going to a bar

And as I have been told on other sites, God is not a genie so there's no point asking him

You would only want God if He gave you a girl? That's pretty cynical.

 

[Divide]

Let proposition P1 = We are living in a matrix as in the movie The Matrix (1999).

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?

What is P1?

 

[Divide]

And why would anyone want to come to a planet where they ran the risk of "sinning" and "dying"

There must be some planet with no sin and attractive blue aliens. And if not then please make it so and transfer us there God

You've never picked up a bible and read it in your life have you?

 

[nightmares]

You responded to a final point that I made in my post, NOT to any of the questions that I asked you (about the things that you'd just said/said you were doing). Why

Nevertheless, I replied to what you said, and pointed out to you that it is the Bible that says such things, and that such things are NEVER said by Satan. It is, in point of fact, God Himself, in the first Person, that is, who says the very things to us that you are claiming only Satan would say!!

--David

So you are making the claim that God and Satan both think we are deserving of death

Really. Nonsense.

 

[nightmares]

You've never picked up a bible and read it in your life have you?

Yes but unlike some I don't pretend that it covers every single subject and adopt the ridiculous position that if it's not in the Bible it doesn't exist

 

[nightmares]

Yep. So every decision that you have to make on a daily basis is a test. A test to see what you choose and if you choose the best way or not. Life is 10% what it deals you in the cards, and 90% how you react to it. So you have a proper choice. You can choose anything you want to. But is it within the will of God or not? That is the question.



Do you not understand that you are living in a damaged creation? That God is a just and holy God? God knows that as damaged as we already were that we can not do this by ourself. He came and died to pay the penalty for us so that we can live and learn and be redeemed. But we are so damaged that He can't just wave His wand and make everything perfect again without wiping our personality out completely. That's why the Sanctification process take place over a period of time. So when we get to heaven we will still be us with our individuality and personality.



You would only want God if He gave you a girl? That's pretty cynical.

No

A proper choice would be "Do you choose God or Satan"

Not this joke of a world

Have compassion for humanity

 

[nightmares]

What's pretty cynical is saying we all deserve to die because two people ate from a tree and as a result we are stuck here

Whats pretty cynical is trying to find a reason to justify Satan being kept alive while billions of us suffer and die

 

[tonychanyt]

What's pretty cynical is saying we all deserve to die because two people ate from a tree and as a result we are stuck here

See My take on original sin and follow up there

 

[Divide]

Yes but unlike some I don't pretend that it covers every single subject and adopt the ridiculous position that if it's not in the Bible it doesn't exist

That would be Psalms.

It's what I thought. You do not read it anymore so your knowledge of it since you stopped reading has been usurped by others opinions.

Every single subject is cvered in the Bible. Now please don't be stupid and ask where it says cell phones or something like that. We're talking about biblical principles. It's all in there and jus tremember...you chose to be born where you were...

 

[Divide]

What is P1?

SO what's P1?

 

[tonychanyt]

SO what's P1?

Let proposition P1 = We are living in a matrix as in the movie The Matrix (1999).

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?

 

[Andrewn]

Once we commit to expanding God’s kingdom on earth, how do we go about doing that? There are many ways, I’m sure, but I will mention four important ones.

By genuinely loving and caring for others
By continuing to develop personally as followers of Jesus
By making a difference in the lives of the poor, marginalized, and oppressed, and
By sharing the Good News of Jesus"

This sounds good. Jesus said:

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Incidentally the Good News of Jesus is not "you all deserve to die because two people ate from a tree"

What is the Good News?

No, humanity does not deserve to die

That is something Satan would say

Yes, that is something satan would say. But those who follow Jesus will not suffer eternal death.

 

[Divide]

Let proposition P1 = We are living in a matrix as in the movie The Matrix (1999).

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?

So that's something that was in the movie?

I must've been going for chip & dip when that part played. Can you explain it to me and jog my memory? Because I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[tonychanyt]

So that's something that was in the movie?

I must've been going for chip & dip when that part played. Can you explain it to me and jog my memory? Because I have no idea what you're talking about.

Feel free to propose your definition of matrix.

 

[Divide]

Feel free to propose your definition of matrix.

The matrix is a digitalprojection of what we call our reality.

It is a part of the higher reality inasmuch as it is coming from there. I'm guessing that our (portion) of reality is no more than 5% of the true total reality.

Call it whatever you want, Heaven, the spiritual realm, alternate dimensions.

Supposedly the ascientists can prove (mathmatically) that there has to be at least 10 or 11 dimensions. It's been awhile since I read Scientific American's June 2005 article about it. You should dig it up and read it for yourself. We essentially live in the matrix.

 

[tonychanyt]

The matrix is a digitalprojection of what we call our reality.

Let proposition P1 = We are living in the matrix.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?