Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[nightmares]

Adam and Eve are all of us. Each one of us ate of the Tree when enticed by the flesh and deserved to die. God knows our weakness and does not blame us for it. He rather came to earth, acquired flesh similar to ours, and defeated the devil.

See I really hate this idea that we all ate from the tree and deserve to die. Why do you want to condemn billions to death. Is that really the Christian thing to do

 

[tonychanyt]

I would have got rid of the serpent.

Are you wiser than God?

 

[nightmares]

Are you wiser than God?

Why would any Christian want Satan to be kept alive

 

[tonychanyt]

Why would any Christian want Satan to be kept alive

I don't know. But I trust God's infinite wisdom.

Are you wiser than God?

 

[nightmares]

So is that the approach then

If people ask questions they are to be shut down

 

[tonychanyt]

So is that the approach then

If people ask questions they are to be shut down

Who shut you down? On the contrary, I welcome your answer to the question:

Are you wiser than God?

Please express yourself. Don't let others shut you down. Certainly, not me. I have neither the intention nor the authority to shut anyone down on this platform. I look forward to your answering the question:

Are you wiser than God?

 

[nightmares]

The implication is that we should not bother asking questions about why God did what he did because he's God and we're not

Well ok might as well close this forum down because who are any of us to have any opinion on what God did on any given subject

 

[oikonomia]

So is that the approach then

If people ask questions they are to be shut down

There is no question that Satan's career is to be absolutely terminated, and he go to his eternal reward for all that he has done.

But it appears that God would not deal with this nemesis in a unilateral way.
Put another way - the Creator would not unilaterally put down the rebellious creature alone.
The Creator will only excecute total judgment upon the rebellious creature with the COOPERATION of another obedient creature, namely man.

It appears that God the Creator would not unilaterally put down Satan the creature such that there could be
ground for other creatures to surmise "Hmm, God is tyranical, dictatorial, a bullying Creator who arbitrarily will permit no competition."

Yet God is just. He cannot unjustly allow the rebel creature to oppose truth forever.
God would create another creature to harmonize, cooperate, AGREE with Him that this rebel should be completely put down.

Have I communicated anything to you comprehensible so far?
If so, maybe we could proceed a bit further.

I give you heads up that I tend to be verbose.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Don't need to

There is no explanation in the Bible as to why God decided to create a reality where billions including Jesus died instead of doing something else entirely

This gives us a hint:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:4–10)​

 

[nightmares]

There is no question that Satan's career is to be absolutely terminated, and he go to his eternal reward for all that he has done.

But it appears that God would not deal with this nemesis in a unilateral way.
Put another way - the Creator would not unilaterally put down the rebellious creature alone.
The Creator will only excecute total judgment upon the rebellious creature with the COOPERATION of another obedient creature, namely man.

It appears that God the Creator would not unilaterally put down Satan such that there could be ground for other creatures to surmise
God is tyrant, dictatorial, bullying Creator who arbitrarily will permit not competition.
Yet God is just. He cannot unjustly allow the rebel creature to oppose truth forever.
God would create another creature to harmonize, cooperate, AGREE with Him that this rebel should be completely put down.

Have I communicated anything to you comprehensible so far?
If so, maybe we could proceed a bit further.

I give you heads up that I tend to be verbose.

Yes I have seen the argument that if God killed Satan he could be called a bullying tyrant

Problem with that argument is God killed humans on numerous occasions

So the question is why do humans get killed but not Satan

 

[tonychanyt]

The implication is that we should not bother asking questions about why God did what he did because he's God and we're not

By "implication", do you mean it in the First-Order Logical sense?

 

[oikonomia]

Yes I have seen the argument that if God killed Satan he could be called a bullying tyrant

Problem with that argument is God killed humans on numerous occasions

So the question is why do humans get killed but not Satan

The last question indicates that you didn't believe (or purhaps agree) with what I assured you.
Here it is again;
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"There is no question that Satan's career is to be absolutely terminated, and he go to his eternal reward for all that he has done."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is what I said to the destroying of Satan. Now if you don't BELIEVE that, then maybe we can discuss why you don't believe this inevitability. The death and resurrection of Christ assures Christs overcoming of everything the Devil could throw at God/man.

Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the ruler of this world be cast out. (John 12:31)
His lifteing up on the cross demonstrated His absoluteness for the will of His Father to the shame and undoing of the Satanic will, as "the ruler of this world."

That Satan's destination is eternal damnation cannot be doubted.
Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matt. 25:41)

Did you see that? - - " the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. "
I believe this destiny of Satan. Do you doubt? Or you are impatient about it?
I do not blame you for being impatient about it.
But God is giving YOU time for the glory and priviledge of cooperation with Him.

You can EXPEDITE the matter, you know?

Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. (Rom. 16:20)

Did you notice that? God's desire to crush Satan not just under the feet of Jesus,
but underneath the feet of the cooperating and victorious Church as well.

You see, most of us have an attitude like this: "Well, I am ok God. Just get rid of Satan and all the problems will be solved! What is taking You so long to do that? "

Notice back in Matt. 25 God is vindicating those who are one with Him
and dealing with all those who sided with Satan with him.

And He will set the sheep on His right hand and the goats on the left.
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (Matt. 25:33,34)

Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (v. 41)

And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (vs. 46)

You see? You and I are involved. It is not just a matter of God dealing with Satan and his angels.
Along the way human beings not one with God have fallen into that terrible resevior of evil.
We can HASTEN the time of Satan going off to that which was prepared for him and his angels.

 

[nightmares]

1. He gets to be "the ruler of this world". Is that just?

2. Billions of us have to go through this and die. Is that just?

3. Then however many will be "eternally punished". Is that just?

So

1. Why should any of us be eternally punished because Satan was allowed to live.

2. Putting billions of us here and then saying something like "oh you sided with Satan" doesn't make sense. Why not just ask everyone whether they want to side with God, Satan or don't care about all that

3. Why would God killing Satan cause him to be seen as a tyrant but God killing/eternally punishing humans not cause him to be seen as a tyrant.

4. Why should anyone care about God Vs Satan

5. It would seem that the ultimate result is that Satan was allowed to tempt Adam/Eve and got to be the ruler of this world while billions of us suffer and die under the fear of being told we have to die again or be eternally punished. Is that just?

So again why is Satan being kept alive more important than billions of us not having to go through this

 

[tonychanyt]

1. He gets to be "the ruler of this world". Is that just?

You seem to have a trust issue. See Believe in yourself? and follow up there

 

[nightmares]

I believe humanity should really come to their senses and start questioning why they continue to persist in this futile circle of life where you wake up, do a bunch of pointless stuff and go to sleep

 

[tonychanyt]

I believe humanity should really come to their senses and start questioning why they continue to persist in this futile circle of life where you wake up, do a bunch of pointless stuff and go to sleep

verse?

 

[Andrewn]

See I really hate this idea that we all ate from the tree and deserve to die. Why do you want to condemn billions to death. Is that really the Christian thing to do

I don't want to condemn billions to death. You and I ate of the Tree and deserve to die. But you don't like this idea. You would rather blame someone else.

1. He gets to be "the ruler of this world". Is that just?

2. Billions of us have to go through this and die. Is that just?

Satan is the elected representative of billions of people. They elect to follow him every day. God respects their choice. They could have chosen to follow Christ instead.

 

[Andrewn]

3. Then however many will be "eternally punished". Is that just?

So

1. Why should any of us be eternally punished because Satan was allowed to live.

You will get your wish if you don't want to have eternal life. God will not force you.

2. Putting billions of us here and then saying something like "oh you sided with Satan" doesn't make sense. Why not just ask everyone whether they want to side with God, Satan or don't care about all that

This is exactly the choice we face.

3. Why would God killing Satan cause him to be seen as a tyrant but God killing/eternally punishing humans not cause him to be seen as a tyrant.

Because Satan is the chosen representative/president of billions of people.

4. Why should anyone care about God Vs Satan

It's not God vs satan. The war is between us and satan.

5. It would seem that the ultimate result is that Satan was allowed to tempt Adam/Eve and got to be the ruler of this world while billions of us suffer and die under the fear of being told we have to die again or be eternally punished. Is that just?

We are not innocent bystanders!

 

[nightmares]

I don't want to condemn billions to death. You and I ate of the Tree and deserve to die. But you don't like this idea. You would rather blame someone else.


Satan is the elected representative of billions of people. They elect to follow him every day. God respects their choice. They could have chosen to follow Christ instead.

Where do you get this ability to understand what billions of people are thinking and doing everyday

 

[nightmares]

You will get your wish if you don't want to have eternal life. God will not force you.


This is exactly the choice we face.


Because Satan is the chosen representative/president of billions of people.


It's not God vs satan. The war is between us and satan.


We are not innocent bystanders!

Yeah we are victims and really should be let out

Why are Christians so eager to condemn billions of humans