Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[Andrewn]

Where do you get this ability to understand what billions of people are thinking and doing everyday

It is my Lord who made this diagnosis regarding unbelievers:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks lies he is just being himself—for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

Yeah we are victims and really should be let out

Don't worry, you will be let out. You will not be forced to have eternal life.

Why are Christians so eager to condemn billions of humans

This is not true at all:

1Ti 2:4 He desires all people to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth.

 

[nightmares]

A handful of people a long time ago is not remotely comparable to billions of people today

The CHRISTIAN thing to do is to let EVERYONE off this planet and give us a PROPER choice

Not this nonsense called life on Earth

 

[Andrewn]

The CHRISTIAN thing to do is to let EVERYONE off this planet and give us a PROPER choice

Not this nonsense called life on Earth

I hope you're not suicidal :-(.

 

[nightmares]

Let's just say that I have realised that we are in a Matrix simulation and am fed up being stuck here in a never ending struggle for money to buy imaginary food and drink

 

[tonychanyt]

Let's just say that I have realised that we are in a Matrix simulation and am fed up being stuck here in a never ending struggle for money to buy imaginary food and drink

Are you a Christian?

 

[Divide]

Are you a Christian?

I know what he is talking about. Scientific American June 2005 has an article in it about do we live in a projection, a construct. And the evidence they have points to very much so. It said, the reality that we see is but a shadow of a much larger reality that we can not see. . (I think you can still find the article online.)

It doesn't disagree with scripture as far as I can tell. Scripture says even now we are seated in heavenly places with the Lord Jesus. So if we're up there, but we think we are down here...There might just be a matrix going on. This could be God's trainning simulator that he has us in?

I'd guess yes, he is a Christian.

 

[nightmares]

That depends on your definition of Christian

Personally I am trying to follow the below (it would be easier if time didn't fly by)

"How Do We Go about Expanding God’s Kingdom on Earth?

Once we commit to expanding God’s kingdom on earth, how do we go about doing that? There are many ways, I’m sure, but I will mention four important ones.

By genuinely loving and caring for others
By continuing to develop personally as followers of Jesus
By making a difference in the lives of the poor, marginalized, and oppressed, and
By sharing the Good News of Jesus"

Incidentally the Good News of Jesus is not "you all deserve to die because two people ate from a tree"

 

[nightmares]

I know what he is talking about. Scientific American June 2005 has an article in it about do we live in a projection, a construct. And the evidence they have points to very much so. It said, the reality that we see is but a shadow of a much larger reality that we can not see. . (I think you can still find the article online.)

It doesn't disagree with scripture as far as I can tell. Scripture says even now we are seated in heavenly places with the Lord Jesus. So if we're up there, but we think we are down here...There might just be a matrix going on. This could be God's trainning simulator that he has us in?

I'd guess yes, he is a Christian.

I agree with this article

My Understanding of that Infamous Tree in Eden

 

[Divide]

A handful of people a long time ago is not remotely comparable to billions of people today

The CHRISTIAN thing to do is to let EVERYONE off this planet and give us a PROPER choice

Not this nonsense called life on Earth

What makes you think we didn't have a choice? Does God ever change? Does He force Himself on anyone? Do you have free will? Is it written that before the foundation of the world, He knew us?

So He would not force us into this. We chose to come be born here. We must have. At the very least, we agreed to it. We had to already exist there as spirit beings before we were born of water on earth and became human. We did have a choice. God isn't like that to force people. God will not interfere with yur free will either. We are in an age of grace and it's possible to make our own decisions. Soon the age of grace will be over! We don't have long. So we were born with amnesia and don't remember God. But when we woke up all we have is a field manual (Bible), and a radio to the throne room of God (Prayer) and we have to figure out our mission and find our way back to the rendevoux.

Hang in there. It'll be over soon.

 

[Divide]

A handful of people a long time ago is not remotely comparable to billions of people today

The CHRISTIAN thing to do is to let EVERYONE off this planet and give us a PROPER choice

Not this nonsense called life on Earth

This is nonsense, this earth. It is a valley of tears. A Carnival of death. Valley of the shadow of death. I don't want to die, and yet, I am at the age where I can fully comprehend what Paul meant, to die is to gain!

 

[Divide]

Yeah we are victims and really should be let out

Why are Christians so eager to condemn billions of humans

So your not a Christian yet. We are not victims. We signed up for a college course with the Lord at the University of Brotherly Love. It's a tough course! But the certification will be out of this world!

If you tink all the christians are condemning everyone then you need to pay closer attention. The couse can be explained simmply. Learn how to love everyone in all circumstances in a place where everyone is lying to you and trying to kill you!

Not many pass this course from what I hear!

If we're in the matrix and this earth is a projection and an illusion, then...none of this bad stuff really happened on earth, did it? What if you woke up in heaven and found out it wasn't real. It was an interactive training program set up to where we make all the choices and must choose wisely, or die. That would be something. And I don't think I could put that beyond God as something He can do. We'll get to remember everything when we get back.

Take the red pill.

 

[nightmares]

What makes you think we didn't have a choice? Does God ever change? Does He force Himself on anyone? Do you have free will? Is it written that before the foundation of the world, He knew us?

So He would not force us into this. We chose to come be born here. We must have. At the very least, we agreed to it. We had to already exist there as spirit beings before we were born of water on earth and became human. We did have a choice. God isn't like that to force people. God will not interfere with yur free will either. We are in an age of grace and it's possible to make our own decisions. Soon the age of grace will be over! We don't have long. So we were born with amnesia and don't remember God. But when we woke up all we have is a field manual (Bible), and a radio to the throne room of God (Prayer) and we have to figure out our mission and find our way back to the rendevoux.

Hang in there. It'll be over soon.

I'm talking about the idea that humans choose between God and Satan on a daily basis

That makes no sense whatsoever to me and that's what I mean by letting us out and giving us a proper choice

Because really what is accomplished by having us go to sleep and doing it all again no matter what we do

And it's not free will if there are two choices with one being "right" and the other being "sin"

Because for example you can stay at home and fruitlessly try to find someone on dating apps or you could risk your soul by going to a bar

And as I have been told on other sites, God is not a genie so there's no point asking him

 

[nightmares]

So your not a Christian yet. We are not victims. We signed up for a college course with the Lord at the University of Brotherly Love. It's a tough course! But the certification will be out of this world!

If you tink all the christians are condemning everyone then you need to pay closer attention. The couse can be explained simmply. Learn how to love everyone in all circumstances in a place where everyone is lying to you and trying to kill you!

Not many pass this course from what I hear!

If we're in the matrix and this earth is a projection and an illusion, then...none of this bad stuff really happened on earth, did it? What if you woke up in heaven and found out it wasn't real. It was an interactive training program set up to where we make all the choices and must choose wisely, or die. That would be something. And I don't think I could put that beyond God as something He can do. We'll get to remember everything when we get back.

Take the red pill.

"Each one of us ate of the Tree when enticed by the flesh and deserved to die.

That was posted earlier and I have seen similar sentiments on sites like Gotquestions and Biblestudytools

And yeah there's not much left after you get "percolated" by Satan with all sorts of threats and telling me that I was going to hell

 

[nightmares]

And why would anyone want to come to a planet where they ran the risk of "sinning" and "dying"

There must be some planet with no sin and attractive blue aliens. And if not then please make it so and transfer us there God

 

[St_Worm2]

By sharing the Good News of Jesus"
Incidentally the Good News of Jesus is not "you all deserve to die because two people ate from a tree"

Hello again Nightmares, what is the "Good News" of Jesus that you are sharing with others right now, and why, as @tonychanyt's OP title asks, did He have to suffer and die when He came here? Why is that "Good News"?

Thanks

--David
p.s. - BTW, the whole of humanity doesn't deserve to die because of our first parents' disobedience and sin, the whole of humanity deserves to die because we've all sinned personally, every mother's son of us.

 

[nightmares]

No, humanity does not deserve to die

That is something Satan would say

 

[tonychanyt]

It doesn't disagree with scripture as far as I can tell. Scripture says even now we are seated in heavenly places with the Lord Jesus. So if we're up there, but we think we are down here...There might just be a matrix going on.

Let proposition P1 = We are living in a matrix as in the movie The Matrix (1999).

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?

 

[1SimpleMan]

To the original post on this thread...I completely agree and many others added much to the Biblical prophesy of Christ's death. Unless I missed it on someone's post, most have missed the first cause. Man was given the law and one punishment. The curse of death from disobedience lay upon every man after their disobedience. The problem now is that all of Adam's prodigy was tainted by his disobedience and thereby subject to the same judgment of death, yet it was only one of Adam's prodigy (upon whom the curse would rest) that could redeem his fellow man by perfect obedience, else God's original judgement/word would be untrue or his justice/judgment would be dismissed without cause.
Athanasius in 300s AD (in the Incarnation) wrote much about this topic and he calls it God's divine consistency. It is in Christ who as God is capable of perfect obedience and as a man is capable of being the new federal head of a redeemed man. Jesus must obey God even unto death to fulfill the divine consistency of God's Word. But in Christ's perfect obedience, man's killing of Jesus is unjust ( a part of his suffering).
Why then must he suffer but to be exposed to the very heart of man's temptation for self preservation and to the cruelest of our sins against one another and yet to still overcome by the image of God (his very character which we had corrupted). He then in perfect obedience having been put to death unjustly and completely undeserving (wages of sin is death) he was given by God, authority to take his life back up again and to offer forgiveness to whom he will. In God's divine consistency, the first offense and judgement on Adam is met in Christ.
Now Jesus, having endured the worst against himself, may now also freely forgive all things (concerning us) for they are indeed against him now as he has purchased our debt and is our rightful elder brother, King, Priest, and God.

 

[nightmares]

Yeah that has one tiny flaw

It is just not workable to have countless beings walking on eggshells in case there is just one act of "disobedience" and then we have to go through all this a second time

 

[St_Worm2]

No, humanity does not deserve to die
That is something Satan would say

Hello again @nightmares, though I was speaking of the whole of humanity, my point was that ALL of the individuals that make up humanity are guilty of sinning, personally .. see Romans 3:10-12, Romans 3:23, Ephesians 2:1-3.

The Bible and God Himself (NEVER Satan) makes it clear that that it is the soul who sins will die .. e.g. Ezekiel 18:4, Ezekiel 18:20, and that death is what we are owed for the sins that we commit .. e.g. Romans 6:23. It was our sins, in point of fact, that the Lord Jesus Christ came here as a man to save us from .. e.g. Matthew 1:21; Romans 5:8-10.

--David

Isaiah 53​

5 He was pierced through for our transgressions, ​

He was crushed for our iniquities; ​

The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, ​

And by His scourging we are healed. ​

6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, ​

Each of us has turned to his own way; ​

But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all ​

To fall on Him. ​