Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[Divide]

Does the Bible say anything about, for example, the NFL

If not then not every subject is covered in the Bible

You did it anyway. I said no cell phone questions. Do you know what principles are? They're what makes a boy into a man. If you realy want me too answer on a 6th grade level,

The Bible speaks of everything we could run into in life and gives us the answer...inasmuch as we seek to answer the question with a biblical principle. So now I have to ask you, what about the NFL? Do you have a difficulty with it somehow? What's your problem with the NFL? Your question and relevant situationals etc?

 

[Divide]

On a related subject, why didn't the world end after Jesus was resurrected

What is the point of anything on Earth after that

Because of the intense damage that has already been done to your soul by living in a sinful world. That sort of damage is so great that it takes time to repair the damage. If God waved His hand and said all nighmares sin be purged from him all at once...then you would be an empty shell. You basically would not exist anymore. But the good news is that Jesus already paid the price to get the damage repaired so he can save you, but it does require your participation! How, you ask?

Besides I think the Lord wanted a bigger harvest. When a worm spins a cocoon around itself God does His metamorphisous thing and when it emerges from the cocoon it is a butterfly. God doesn't come down and slice open the cocoon instantly for the butterfly. The butterfly must claw its way out on it's own and it is hard! But it also strengtens the butterfly from the workout.

If a tornado hit your house, would you say, well honey I guess we have to camp in the backyard now and sit down? Would you rebuild or sit down?

 

[Divide]

Why not use both logic and spirit?

Because logic can not receive the things of God.

 

[tonychanyt]

On a related subject, why didn't the world end after Jesus was resurrected

What is the point of anything on Earth after that

So what would you have done if you were God?

 

[tonychanyt]

Because logic can not receive the things of God.

See "Whoever is not with me is against me" vs "Whoever is not against you is for you"

 

[nightmares]

So what would you have done if you were God?

Answered a question with a question

 

[nightmares]

Because of the intense damage that has already been done to your soul by living in a sinful world. That sort of damage is so great that it takes time to repair the damage. If God waved His hand and said all nighmares sin be purged from him all at once...then you would be an empty shell. You basically would not exist anymore. But the good news is that Jesus already paid the price to get the damage repaired so he can save you, but it does require your participation! How, you ask?

Besides I think the Lord wanted a bigger harvest. When a worm spins a cocoon around itself God does His metamorphisous thing and when it emerges from the cocoon it is a butterfly. God doesn't come down and slice open the cocoon instantly for the butterfly. The butterfly must claw its way out on it's own and it is hard! But it also strengtens the butterfly from the workout.

If a tornado hit your house, would you say, well honey I guess we have to camp in the backyard now and sit down? Would you rebuild or sit down?

Except if the world ends after Jesus is resurrected no one comes here to be a human being

 

[nightmares]

You did it anyway. I said no cell phone questions. Do you know what principles are? They're what makes a boy into a man. If you realy want me too answer on a 6th grade level,

The Bible speaks of everything we could run into in life and gives us the answer...inasmuch as we seek to answer the question with a biblical principle. So now I have to ask you, what about the NFL? Do you have a difficulty with it somehow? What's your problem with the NFL? Your question and relevant situationals etc?

You said no cell phone questions because they disprove your assertion that every single subject is covered in the Bible

And who would want to be a man anyway. Same old boring stuff and Glory Days that pass you by in the wink of a young girls eye

 

[tonychanyt]

Answered a question with a question

In fact, Jesus did that to the chief priests in Mat 21:24. It was also a favorite method of Socrates. Somehow, you think you are wiser than both.

So what would you have done if you were God?

 

[nightmares]

I would have forced you to actually contribute

 

[tonychanyt]

I would have forced you to actually contribute

Are you a Christian?

 

[nightmares]

Are you going to post something worthwhile instead of are you a Christian or are you wiser than God

 

[tonychanyt]

Are you going to post something worthwhile instead of are you a Christian or are you wiser than God

I am not wiser than God. Are you?

 

[nightmares]

It is extremely wise to have billions suffer and die instead of putting a stop to it 2,000 years ago

 

[tonychanyt]

It is extremely wise to have billions suffer and die instead of putting a stop to it 2,000 years ago

Are you wiser than God? Are you a Christian? If you are, then you have a trust issue. You are believing too much in yourself and not enough in God. Please look into it.

 

[nightmares]

And God said to Tonychan: I did not create humanity to be mindless puppets who are not allowed to ask questions

 

[oikonomia]

1. He gets to be "the ruler of this world". Is that just?

Satan being "the ruler of this world" is the result of his usurping man to come under his authority.
I wonder if you read the Bible much.

2. Billions of us have to go through this and die. Is that just?

If we are more just and righteous than our Creator, the issue is how was God able to bestow on humanity
something that He didn't have enough of?

The cause should not be less than the effect.
As I read through the Bible patiently it is clear to me that behind the universe is One whose morality is infinitely perfect.

The history of God's interaction with man is like something of His "Resume".
Though I admit there are instances tough for me to understand, I also have to admit
that spiritual growth causes somethings not understood in my past to become MORE understood as I mature.

Not only do I have to contemplate the long history of God's interation with Israel and the nations, I have to
consider the central Person of the Bible - Jesus Christ. I am totally persuaded that the goodness and ethics of Jesus
is beyond questioning.

If anyone in human history was qualified to criticize God of the Old Testament it would have been Jesus.
Yet Jesus referred to God as "Righteous Father". Not a word of this man of the highest moraity ever lived, hints that
He saw unrighteousness in the One whom He referred to as "Father".

I have become persuaded that behind the whole creation of everything lies One whose righteousness is not just "good" or "very good" or "very, very good" but PERFECT - eternally so, infinitely so, without limitation so.

I think the unlimited and unfathomable nature of the physical universe testifies to the unlimited and fathomly power, wisdom, love, and righteness of its Creator, its Governor.

3. Then however many will be "eternally punished". Is that just?

We have no statistics on that.
When the question was asked of Jesus on how many are saved, He did not reply with statistics.
He responded with a directive as to how to enter into divine and eternal life. Enter in through the narrow door rather than go along
with the many by a broad way leading not to where they would wish to go.

And someone said to Him, Lord, are there only a few who are being saved?
And He said to them, Struggle to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter, yet will not be able. (Luke 13:23,24)

1. Why should any of us be eternally punished because Satan was allowed to live.

It is like you go with your leader.
If Satan is your leader and you will not be saved, the miserable destiny of Satan will be ours as well.
We go with our leader.

If the Son of God and Savior is your leader you share His glorious destiny.
You go with your leader.

So confess and receive Jesus as your Lord to be in the position to share in the wonderful destinely of Jesus.
And do not be duped by Satan to co-share his miserable reward.

2. Putting billions of us here and then saying something like "oh you sided with Satan" doesn't make sense. Why not just ask everyone whether they want to side with God, Satan or don't care about all that

Pragmatically, I think the best thing is to realize you are loved by God and can be saved.
I would accept that. Had I ten lives to live on earth, I would not want to waste even ONE of them not loving back the Lord Jesus.

I can come up with good questions just like you. You are not the only one who has contemplated such things.
I got to meet Jesus the Available Lord and Savior. The earlier one gets to know Him the more worthwhile is life.

I said above, You share the destiny of your leader.
If you have good reasons why you think to throw your lot in with Satan is better, you run with that.
I am persuaded that the love of the Son of God and His salvation is better.
And He has had mercy on me to give me the ability to believe.

There is nothing wrong with crying like the desperate father cried out - You believe but need help on your unbelief.
Immediately, crying out, the father of the child said, I believe; help my unbelief! (Mark 9:23)

 

[oikonomia]

3. Why would God killing Satan cause him to be seen as a tyrant but God killing/eternally punishing humans not cause him to be seen as a tyrant.

I think that God in His wisdom knew that if He created beings with freedom of will, some would want nothing to do with Him.
So I think He created ONE being to be the leader of all, like a grand reservoir to collect in one ALL those who would choose
to want nothing to do with God.

I do not find fault with God for being perfect.
I do not find fault with God for holding sin as an abomination.
Any attempt to portray God as not merciful and longsuffering I cannot take seriously.
I do not find fault with God for demonstrating by becomming a man, to what extent He would go that we be saved.

I don't know if you read the Bible or just like to erect intellectual problem questions with the little that you think you know.
When I want to read the BEST human arguments against God, I go read the 42 some chapters of the book of Job, the oldest book
of the Bible

I have heard all kinds of arguments against God.
I think none I have heard are as good as the ones Job came up with.
The book could be called "Equal Time For Skeptics of God."

Conversely, when I want to be freshly impressed with what God as a man went through that we me saved from Perfect Righteousness,
I review the chapters of the Son of God in His passions just before going to the six hours of being nailed hands and feet for me.
And not only for me but for the sins of the whole world.
Even He was judged by Divine Wrath as He carried up our sins in His body, being made sin for us that we be saved from PERFECT.

The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

I think I do not share all of your doubts because I read the Bible. And that with a intention to let God change me.

4. Why should anyone care about God Vs Satan

It is in our make up to want love, beauty, righteness, righteousness, life, blessing.
I would even say that we know SOMETHING terrible has gone wrong with the world.

The term "the will of God" no longer raises red flags of fear and caution with me.
When I think of the awesome phase "the will of God" I think of Revelation 21,22 the climax and consummation of history.

And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away. (Rev. 21:4)

I think of a moment where the transformed by God are fixed in that state and the corrupted by Satan are finally fixed in that state.

Let him who does unrighteousness do unrighteousness still; and let him who is filthy be filthy still; and let him who is righteous do righteousness still; and let him who is holy be holy still. (Rev. 22:11)

I think of the THIRST for life quench in those of His kingdom for eternity. The possibilities of eternity under His good governorship are limitless.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come! And let him who is thirsty come; let him who wills take the water of life freely. (v. 17)

I think of a corperate lover in the form of a Bride of Christ in a eternal love romance in a universe filled with righteousness, joy and glory.

Comparing with the lot of those who set their souls to want nothing to do with God, this seems better.
So "the will of God" is infintely better than the will of Satan. He hates God and man and wants to take
as many as he can, whom he hates, with him to his miserable destiny of incompetence and defeat. Shame on him.

 

[oikonomia]

5. It would seem that the ultimate result is that Satan was allowed to tempt Adam/Eve and got to be the ruler of this world while billions of us suffer and die under the fear of being told we have to die again or be eternally punished. Is that just?

My experience is that as fearful as the prospect of eternal punishment was, there were quite a few times when the enjoyment of
sinning overshadowed such a concern. I don't agree that fear is the only motive for wanting to come to Christ.

Now you have posed some tough questions.
Let's ask you now a question or two.

Your heart beats. Your blood circulates, Your lungs breath. You think, choose, decide, plan, are curious, live, grow. etc.
You are here without a doubt, in the universe.
Why are you here?
Why do you exist?

If the love of God in Christ has no meaning to you, please tell me then WHY are you?
If the purpose of God's kingdom seems trivial and nonsensical to you, your alternative PURPOSE for being here in the universe is what ?

Your turn now to answer some questions.

So again why is Satan being kept alive more important than billions of us not having to go through this

At the last judgement I expect to amazed at God's infinite knowledge rather than amazed at His unjustness.
As I read through the Bible I rather suspect the extent of His knowing all the facts will amaze us.

It is harder work for me to imagine the Judge of all the world will be unjust than to expect EVERY MOUTH will
be shut at His limitless wisdom and knowledge, love and ability to know ALL that was involved in our multivarious situations.

The thought of thinking God will slap His forehead at your types of questions saying "Wow! You know I hadn't really THOUGHT of THAT !" are nill.

I expect to be astounded at His fairness.
I expect that at the same time He will not give up His eternal justice.

A smiley super permissivist Barny the Dinosaur God is not.
He is eternal Love AND He is eternal Righteousness co-existing, one attribute not making the other impossible for Him.

I believe there CAN be eternal love and mercy simultaneously with eternal holy righteousness and perfection.
I believe BOTH these aspects of God's character can co-exist.
And the best assurance of this is the life, work, death, and resurrection of Jesus the Son of God.

Now in you next post to me, I expect you to explain the meaning of your life since discarding all the the Bible has said seems the best way to go for you.

Why are you here?

 

[nightmares]

I am not interested in your insults

Since Satan hates God and man so much then put him out of his misery and let us off this planet