Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[Evergreen48]

Clearly some people don't read their bible.
(If they even own one?)

Yes that's true of some people.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


Jesus Christ was raised in a spiritual body, not to mention this.


1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Spiritual bodies do not have flesh and bone.

Luke 24:36. "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
So, Jesus could not have been raised in a spiritual body.

 

[martymonster]

Yes that's true of some people.





Spiritual bodies do not have flesh and bone.

Luke 24:36. "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
So, Jesus could not have been raised in a spiritual body.

Which part of Jesus was made a quickening spirit do you not understand?

Jesus was raised in a glorified spiritual body and could appear as He wanted to!

 

[Evergreen48]

Which part of Jesus was made a quickening spirit do you not understand?

I might ask the same of you.
Are you trying to say that it was the 'first man' (as in 1 Cor. 15:45) who died and it was 'the last man' who was resurrected? ? ? ?

Jesus was raised in a glorified spiritual body and could appear as He wanted to!

So, I guess he only appeared to be eating when he took the fish and the honeycomb from his disciples and ate it.

Luke 24:36. "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42. And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43. And he took it, and did eat before them.

What part of this passage of scriptures do you not understand?

Jesus did not merely APPEAR as a flesh and blood body. It was the ACTUAL flesh and blood body, just as he was before he died, but with the nail holes in his hands and feet, and the wound in his side, which they saw.

 

[GenemZ]

So, I think your saying that the lake of fire destroys the "body" and leaves the mind with no distractions such as pain or pleasure. For the unrepentant, they are left with just their thoughts for eternity. I believe that to be the ultimate pain, and entirely fitting for any evil. I believe this is the eternal torment described. "Torture" would be an outside influence.

No... This is not ordinary fire. Its in the spirit realm. It torments the *soul.*

If the rich man was tormented while only in Hell? How much, more so, when he enters the Lake of Fire?

Luke 16:23-25
In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
​

In Hades the rich man could still reason and think. Even though he was without a body he was in agony. It was his soul that was being tormented. Our physical body is only needed for the soul now to be made alive while in the dimension of time and space. God has other spiritual realities that can effect the soul directly without need of any body.


The Lake of Fire is not Hades. Hades is only the waiting place for the dead unbeliever until the day of judgment. Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire at the final judgment. The Lake of Fire will be much worse than Hades was. Total torment and agony. No ability to think evil towards anyone, only incomprehensible suffering. Total and complete cutting off from God. No escapism into false hoping.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.​

The Lake of Fire does not yet contain anyone.

 

[truncated]

You are right to question this.

God doesn't burn anyone in Hell.
for starters He didn't make a place called Hell to burn people in in the first place.

The place that He prepared for the Devil and His messengers is the lake of fire not Hell.

The lake of fire is the day of judgment where everyone is relieved of the carnal mindedness.
In other words, it's where a flesh is destroyed.

This lake of fire is made up of the elect who are relatively
few in number who's great honor it is to judge the world and bring the second fruits into the Kingdom.


Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


Now think, if our loving heavenly Father is going to burn most of the worlds population in a pit of fire for all eternity then the above verse doesn't make any sense.

If only the first fruits what about the second fruits?

Why is the creation groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

How is it the creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption if the burning in Hellfire for all eternity?

The lake of fire is a symbol for those who are going to judge the world with Christ.


1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


So why are they called the lake of fire then?

They are the lake because they are so few compared to the vast sea of humanity and because God is a consuming fire and His saints are consumed by Him and that fire comes out of their mouths and devours the enemies of God.

Will they be the enemies of God forever in a pit of fire?


1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Anyway I hope I have given you enough to think about.
You should go and read the scriptures and see if what I have said makes anymore sense it the light of them.


PS.

If God loses His second fruits does that mean that He has near total crop failure?

excellent post!

 

[truncated]

=jkryle;55407309]Your the one who said there's no Hell but Jesus says differently.
I think he asked you a legitimate question and your ignoring it because what your saying isn't scriptural.

Jesus never used the word hell.

 

[truncated]

So the great flood was just a story then?

hello,

its not that it didnt happen, its the spiritual significence ( sp )

everything in the story has purpose and meaning, from the ark itself, to noah, to the pitch used as glue, to the raven to the dove ETC.

down to the minute detail, but lets argue whether it really happened? NO lets plow deep.

peace

 

[Superfast]

Why is the creation groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

excellent post!

Do you think rocks are groaning to see the sons of God revealed? Rocks and air and animals and trees and plants are all groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

 

[truncated]

Do you think rocks are groaning to see the sons of God revealed? Rocks and air and animals and trees and plants are all groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

hello,

no i dont think rocks groan, but the ground is still cursed, nevertheless:


Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

do you beleive the nonchildren ofGod will be deliverd from bondage INTO the glorious liberty of the children of God.

 

[martymonster]

Do you think rocks are groaning to see the sons of God revealed? Rocks and air and animals and trees and plants are all groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

Dude, We're the creation that groans.

That verse is not talking about rocks and trees groaning.

 

[Superfast]

hello,

no i dont think rocks groan, but the ground is still cursed, nevertheless:

so you're saying that all creation is groaning awaiting the unveiling of the sons of god means all creation is cursed awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God? cursed means groaning?


(Rotherham) Romans 8:22 For we know that, all creation, is sighing together, and travailing-in-birth-throes together until the present,--

If this translation be the correct one, it would mean that the creation is working towards the unveiling of the sons of God. and sighing in the process. That couldn't be considered as rocks being cursed could it?

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

do you beleive the nonchildren ofGod will be deliverd from bondage INTO the glorious liberty of the children of God.

No only christians will be and not most of them, at least not in this life time. after death yes all christians will be delivered from the bondage of our corruptable flesh into the glorious liberty of the children of god. In the last days, at the Lord's day, there will be multitudes of Christians who will have the son unveiled in them. hasn't happened to anyone yet. I don't see anyone who has attained unto the fulness and stature of Christ yet. some day though.

Colossians 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

christ in us is the hope of the glorious liberty of the children of god.

Ephesians 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I believe the last part in bold is the unveiling of the sons of god. I don't think anyone would say that there is even one christian anywhere in the world who has attained unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Not yet anyway.

 

[SkyWriting]

Dude, We're the creation that groans.

That verse is not talking about rocks and trees groaning.

Yes it is. Note the next line.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you think rocks are groaning to see the sons of God revealed? Rocks and air and animals and trees and plants are all groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

Correct.

 

[SkyWriting]

hello,

its not that it didnt happen, its the spiritual significence ( sp )

everything in the story has purpose and meaning, from the ark itself, to noah, to the pitch used as glue, to the raven to the dove ETC.

down to the minute detail, but lets argue whether it really happened? NO lets plow deep.

peace

Yes. Our reality is a reflection of the realm of spiritual reality. Though distorted due to Sin.

 

[SkyWriting]

39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
So, Jesus could not have been raised in a spiritual body.

It's a new body that has characteristics of both....as the above attests.

 

[Evergreen48]

It's a new body that has characteristics of both....as the above attests.

That is not scriptural. No where in the scripture can we find that our spiritual body will retain any characteristics of the earthly or fleshly body.

Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) He also said that a spirit has not flesh and bones.(Luke 24:39.) Scripture also teaches that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. (1 Cor. 15:50.)

What better proof do we need that Jesus was not resurrected in his spiritual body than the fact that he still had the nail piercings in his hands and feet and the wound in his side? Both these things are signs of a body that is still corruptible and perishable. And it does not offer very much hope to a person that has been horribly burned or scarred from some other disfigurement to thier fleshly body to think that they will go through eternity with these things. I can't believe that anyone could think that there will be imperfections in our spiritual bodies.

 

[Christos Anesti]

the nail piercings in his hands and feet and the wound in his side? Both these things are signs of a body that is still corruptible and perishable. And it does not offer very much hope to a person that has been horribly burned or scarred from some other disfigurement to thier fleshly body to think that they will go through eternity with these things.

Those are not imperfections. They are signs showing His glory and His love of man. Why would it be odd that He would keep such beautiful signs of His love on His ressurected and spiritual body? It's not as if he was oozing blood out of His side or hands which would have been the case had he still had a body capable of corruption.

 

[Edward the Theist]

I'm a Christian but this has bothered me all my life. If God loves us all and wants us all to go to Heaven and to be saved, and if He is all powerful why did he make Hell? Why did he have to make his son suffer?

Don't get offended by this question. I don't know how else to put it into words. Thanks

I apologize that I have not read through all the comments on the OP, but I wanted to take a stab at answering the initial question unbiased by other perhaps better opinions:

I have wondered the same, and I think he had Jesus suffer (and Jesus wanted to do it, don't forget) so that we would see the world could not manipulate him in any way--because he was God. If Jesus showed us that he could not be affected by any suffering or tempations the world threw his way, then he transcends the world. He set an example for us, because if we are living as Christ, we will find that we have to suffer and resist temptation every day in small ways.

As for hell: I haven't seen one description by Jesus Christ (who really championed the idea of hell) that looks any different than the world we live in. In other words, hell looks really bad from the perspective of living in union with God. But to those on the outside, it's just another day in the life. As far as I'm concerned, Jesus could have been describing reincarnation when he described hell.

Because if you ask me, the idea of coming back here to do this stuff all over again as compared to sitting at the banquet table with all the faithful warriors of Christ, it's enough to make me scared straight.

I'm not trying to mitigate hell. There are souls God hates and His wrath is spilled out against them. I'm just saying fire and brimstone may be metaphorical. I mean, what do you call a world that would hang Jesus Christ on the Cross? Oh, and we'd do it again today, I assure you. Nothing has changed.

And is there no way out of hell? Perhaps I'm in hell now. God knows I deserve it. Perhaps my fight against atheism is my way out.

What do you think?

 

[Evergreen48]

Those are not imperfections.

I said that these things; the piercing wounds of His hands and feet, and the wound in his side, after his resurrection were signs of the perishability of the flesh. I did not necessarily say they were imperfections. I referred to the scars and wounds that some people recieve in their fleshly bodies during their lifetime as being imperfections if it would be the case that the spiritual body would have those same scars and disfigurements.

Have you ever seen a victim of skin cancer?

They are signs showing His glory and His love of man. Why would it be odd that He would keep such beautiful signs of His love on His ressurected and spiritual body?

They were the signs of what wicked and evil men did to our Lord, and there was nothing beautiful about that. The fact that he could have called a legion of angels to his rescue at any time during his ordeal and didn't, is the sign of his love of mankind. He didn't need to keep those things to show his love for his fellow man.

It's not as if he was oozing blood out of His side or hands which would have been the case had he still had a body capable of corruption.

It would be highly unlikely that after three days of non-cardiac function, the wounds would still be oozing blood. Especially since it is likely that Jesus bled to death.

If I must carry the scars from all my fleshly wounds throughout eternity, then most likely I'll have to carry the pain I feel from many other 'shocks' that my flesh is heir to. I can't say I'm looking forward to that at all.

Jesus was not raised in his spiritual body. Jesus, like all of us who are flesh and blood, and who have hope in him, had a spiritual body waiting for him. And as his fleshly body dissolved, he moved into that spiritual body which is eternal in the heavens and not made with hands. (2 Cor. 5:1-3.)

 

[drich0150]

Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

Because Not all of us want to go.