Why C.U.R.E.D. fails

[AndOne]

• Conditional Salvation
• Unlimited Atonement ​
• Resistible Grace ​
• Eternal Security​
• Delivered from trespasses & sin​

If salvation is conditional - how can it be eternally secured?

If atonement is unlimited - how is salvation conditional?​

If grace is resistable - how is atonement unlimited?​

If salvation is secure - how can it be conditional?​

​

 

[1TrueDisciple]

• Conditional Salvation
• Unlimited Atonement ​
• Resistible Grace ​
• Eternal Security​
• Delivered from trespasses & sin​

If salvation is conditional - how can it be eternally secured?

If atonement is unlimited - how is salvation conditional?​

If grace is resistable - how is atonement unlimited?​

If salvation is secure - how can it be conditional?​

​

Wow! There are certainly a lot of contradictions in that particular acronym formula.

 

[AndOne]

Wow! There are certainly a lot of contradictions in that particular acronym formula.

My point exactly...

 

[Mr Dave]

If atonement is unlimited - how is salvation conditional?​

Unlimited atonement doesn't mean that all will be saved, it means that all can be saved (as opposed to limited atonement, which says Jesus' atonement was only for the elect few). As all can be saved, those who will be saved need to come to Christ and believe in him. The condition of being saved by grace through faith is the faith, a faith that a loving God does not cause as an obligation on anyone.

 

[Mr Dave]

Hooray for Calvinism v. Arminianism (Wesleyan or otherwise)

 

[Benefactor]

Hooray for Calvinism v. Arminianism (Wesleyan or otherwise)

.

​

Having investigated this in the past and reviewed again which has also become the past the evidence demands a verdict. What is that verdict Honorable Truth Bearer? All are CURED when they accept C.U.R.E.D. Case Closed, Court Dismissed.

​

 

[nobdysfool]

Unlimited atonement doesn't mean that all will be saved, it means that all can be saved (as opposed to limited atonement, which says Jesus' atonement was only for the elect few). As all can be saved, those who will be saved need to come to Christ and believe in him. The condition of being saved by grace through faith is the faith, a faith that a loving God does not cause as an obligation on anyone.

Just going by that reasoning, then salvation does not depend on Christ but on each individual. So in a real sense, men save themselves by making a "right decision". They would have a reason to boast. For preachers, salvation turns into a sales job.

 

[Ghost air]

Of course salvation depends upon the finished work of Christ, there could not be salvation without Christ crucified for our sins... and the bible also speaks of repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ.

Every person who has been placed into the body of Christ, at one point in their life, trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after they believed.

Election is absolutely conditional to being in Christ, for He is the elect of God. A Christian cannot be the elect of God in Adam.

 

[Mr Dave]

Just going by that reasoning, then salvation does not depend on Christ but on each individual. So in a real sense, men save themselves by making a "right decision". They would have a reason to boast. For preachers, salvation turns into a sales job.

Not at all. Salvation depends on Christ, his death and resurrection, no man can save himself. Man can however (by the free-will to choose or reject Him) turn to Christ in faith. The only thing to boast in is the cross of the Lord, His death and resurrection (Gal. 6:14).

Definitely not a sales job, no-one can buy or sell salvation. Only God can impart it by his grace.

 

[Benefactor]

Just going by that reasoning, then salvation does not depend on Christ but on each individual. So in a real sense, men save themselves by making a "right decision". They would have a reason to boast. For preachers, salvation turns into a sales job.

In Christ

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.



1 Corinthians 10:33
just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.

Now, this is the kind of sales person I like. He is not in it for the profit. Do I get a witness?

Win the lost at no profit, sounds like good stuff to me.

CURED is a truth bearing outline in keeping with Paul's words "the profit of the many, so that they may be saved."

God Bless Brother
God is Holy, Just, and Loving, he is my Savior, my Father and Keeper.
Time to leave for Church.

 

[DeaconDean]

• Conditional Salvation
• Unlimited Atonement ​
• Resistible Grace ​
• Eternal Security​
• Delivered from trespasses & sin​

If salvation is conditional - how can it be eternally secured?​

If atonement is unlimited - how is salvation conditional?​

If grace is resistable - how is atonement unlimited?​

If salvation is secure - how can it be conditional?​

Amen!

I'm gonna repeat what a friend of mine once said:

Reborn. I didn't need a cure, I needed to be a new creature. The old man doesn't need to be taken to the hospital to be cured but to the cross to be crucified.

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him," -Rom. 6:6 (KJV)

SO what my brother said is true.

I didn't need to be C.U.R.E.D., I needed to be crucified, I needed to die.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Benefactor]

Unlimited atonement doesn't mean that all will be saved, it means that all can be saved (as opposed to limited atonement, which says Jesus' atonement was only for the elect few). As all can be saved, those who will be saved need to come to Christ and believe in him. The condition of being saved by grace through faith is the faith, a faith that a loving God does not cause as an obligation on anyone.

Precisely Luke 7:50 If God said it - I believe it. Jesus told the woman "your faith has saved you"

Faith first - Regeneration second

 

[DeaconDean]

nm

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Precisely Luke 7:50 If God said it - I believe it. Jesus told the woman "your faith has saved you"

Faith first - Regeneration second

This verse says nothing about regeneration. It says faith first, saved second. The heart must be regenerated first. Its like the wineskins. You cant put new wine in the old wineskins. You cant put faith in a heart of someone who humanly doesnt want it. There must be a regenerating of the heart before faith can enter in. Psalms 51:10 " Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." The heart must be new, regenerated, before one can have faith.

God bless

 

[nobdysfool]

This verse says nothing about regeneration. It says faith first, saved second. The heart must be regenerated first. Its like the wineskins. You cant put new wine in the old wineskins. You cant put faith in a heart of someone who humanly doesnt want it. There must be a regenerating of the heart before faith can enter in. Psalms 51:10 " Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." The heart must be new, regenerated, before one can have faith.

God bless

Amen, bro, well said!

 

[DeaconDean]

Charles Hodge has a very good section deaking with just the issue of regeneration:

It is the special office of the Spirit to convince the world of sin; to reveal Christ, to regenerate the soul, to lead men to the exercise of faith and repentance; to dwell in those whom He thus renews, as a principle of a new and divine life. By this indwelling of the Spirit, believers are united to Christ, and to one another, so that they form one body. This is the foundation of the communion of saints, making them one in faith, one in love, one in their inward life, and one in their hopes and final destiny.

Charles Hodge, Systematic Theology, Theology Proper, Chapter VIII, The Office of the Holy Spirit, The Spirit's Office in the Work of Regeneration, Section 4.

http://www.lgmarshall.org/Reformed/h...ystematic1.pdf

The duty of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin, to reveal Christ, then to regenerate them and lead them to faith and repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Benefactor]

Amen, bro, well said!

After some salsa and chips I have looked everything over and the facts support the conclusion I am right. Regeneration is the same as saved and faith according to Jesus is first.

 

[DeaconDean]

After some salsa and chips I have looked everything over and the facts support the conclusion I am right. Regeneration is the same as saved and faith according to Jesus is first.

After further review:

diaswñ-

1. to preserve through danger, to bring safely through
   1. to save, i.e. cure one who is sick, bring him through
2. to save, keep from perishing
3. to save out of danger, rescue

paliggenesiða-

1. new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration
2. hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death
3. the renovation of the earth after the deluge
4. the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught
5. the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven.
6. other uses
   1. of Cicero's restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile
   2. of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile
   3. of the recovery of knowledge by recollection

Source

We find no such inference.

Saved and regeneration are different.

15 yard penalty and loss of down.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Mr Dave]

diaswñ-
to preserve through danger, to bring safely through
to save, i.e. cure one who is sick, bring him through
to save, keep from perishing
to save out of danger, rescue

Why tell us about the verb diasOzO, when the verb in the passage in question is simply sOzO (E pistis sou sesOken se)?

Very similar in meaning (one is derived from the other) but to me it would be better to talk about the word in use.

SOzO - to save, to keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
a. to save a suffering one from perishing; make well, heal, restore to health (also understand as spiritual healing)
to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save/rescue
to bring safe forth from
b. to save in the technical Biblical sense; - negatively, to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgement, to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance/from the punitive wrath of God at the judgement of the last day
;- positively, to make one a partaker of the salvation by Christ - since salvation begins in this life (in deliverance from error and corrupt notions, in moral purity, in pardon of sin, and in the blessed peace of a soul reconciled to god), but on the visible return of Christ from heaven will be perfected in the consummate blessings of ho aiOn mellOn, we can understand why to sOzesthai is spoken of in some passages as a present possession, in others as a good yet future: - as a blessing beginning (or begun) on Earth

This shows (as is also true of diasOzo, and the word 'save' in English) that the verb is not entirely clear cut out of context, so we must look at the context of the passage.

The faith saves the woman by the forgiveness of sin. Sin is a barrier for people and by being saved (by spiritual healing or deliverance from wrath...) from this sin the woman can be a new creation in which regeneration is possible.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

After some salsa and chips I have looked everything over and the facts support the conclusion I am right. Regeneration is the same as saved and faith according to Jesus is first.

I beg to differ. The woman had a change of heart before Jesus even said thy faith has saved thee. Lets look at verses 37-38 "

37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, 38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
The woman had a change of heart before she even began to wash Jesus' feet, or anoint them with with oil. Regeneration had already taken place, and she showed her faith in Who Jesus was by doing these things. Then Jesus told her thy faith has saved you. Everything I have studied and looked at says that I am right. So, regeneration therefore preceeds faith and repentance.