Why are we accountable if we did not ask to be exist?

[Phil 1:21]

I would gladly spend all of eternity trying to teach my boy to change his ways. My Father in heaven apparently will not.

That wasn't the question.

 

[Bluerose31]

This is a frustration of mine. I'm not necessarily a non believer. But this is a topic anyone could ask so I ask it here.

I did not ask to be born. Why does God hold me accountable for anything?

He created me, gave me a spirit im supposed to make sure conforms to his destinity - otherwise im doomed. gee.... thanks :/ so gracious of You. Sometimes im like... can I go back to not existing.... no? k... thanks for nothing! (i say that sarcastically today but not always)

What am I not realizing?

I can empathize with your words. I am an Antinatlist and I believe life is not good. I am christian so as to help me get through life. I found out life was not good when I got very sick years ago. I would have preferred not to be created so that I would not have suffered all I have. I also do not think God is all powerful and I think that is why we suffer so much. I didn't ask to be born either. I find healing in the Christian faith and comfort too. Life can be very hard but the Christian faith does help to connect one to God and give some relief from the fears of life.

 

[chriscomplex]

I'm not trying to sugar coat anything I can't describe something in full that I don't fully know myself, seen or understand. Hell is isolation from God derive from that what you will.

***Apology***
I must also amend by previous post.
I was mistaken in saying that Scripture says specifically that we are held accountable only for the things we know to be wrong and hurtful and those things which we purposefully ignore.
It does not specifically say that and I can't find reference to it so I apologies to God and you as witnesses for speaking falsely. I think I quoted an expounding or opinion of a favourite Bible preacher instead, my bad.
Please forgive me brothers and sisters in the faith.

What did you actually get wrong?

 

[Galatea]

Let's say you have the power to create intelligent beings. The beings you fashion did not ask to be formed. You decided to create them because you are creative, it is in your nature to make things, you are love, and you create beings capable of loving- but MOST importantly, you want to lavish your love on beings you create.

You make your beings, and you give them boundaries (for their good- so they will be happy and healthy). Your beings are wilful and decide they know better than you, and operate outside the boundaries.

Because you love these beings, and desire their eternal health and happiness, you have set up eternal laws that can not be violated. If they are, the beings are no longer happy and healthy.

He has our good as His ultimate driving force for what He does.

 

[Nick714]

you did not exist before you were born. God gave you the gift of life along with a free will. he is just redirecting us back to him. every thing we lose for his sake we will also gain. also keep in mind that our rebellion against God never helps us. the first time it happened we became slaves to sin. but we can also become slaves to righteousness.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I was mistaken in saying that Scripture says specifically that we are held accountable only for the things we know to be wrong and hurtful and those things which we purposefully ignore.
It does not specifically say that and I can't find reference to it so I apologies to God and you as witnesses for speaking falsely. I think I quoted an expounding or opinion of a favourite Bible preacher instead, my bad.
Please forgive me brothers and sisters in the faith.

That preacher may have been referring to James 4:17 " If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them."

 

[Saint Beloved]

Still a horrible scenario, but I am sure the bible paints a clearer picture of separation than you gave. I understand though about hell, and I had to think the same thing. But that was just to avoid the scarceness of it all.

Very well, lets explore this together.
Scripture verses on Hell

[VERSE=Psalms 9:17,KJV_APOCRYPHA]The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Psalms 55:15,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Proverbs 7:27,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Proverbs 23:13,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Proverbs 27:20,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Isaiah 14:9,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Matthew 5:22,KJV_APOCRYPHA]But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Matthew 18:9,KJV_APOCRYPHA]And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Matthew 23:33,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Luke 12:5,KJV_APOCRYPHA]But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=James 3:6,KJV_APOCRYPHA]And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.[/VERSE]

 

[chriscomplex]

Very well, lets explore this together.
Scripture verses on Hell

[VERSE]Psalms 9:17[/PSALMS]

[VERSE=Psalms 55:15,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Proverbs 7:27,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Proverbs 23:13,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Proverbs 27:20,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Isaiah 14:9,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Matthew 5:22,KJV_APOCRYPHA]But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Matthew 18:9,KJV_APOCRYPHA]And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Matthew 23:33,KJV_APOCRYPHA]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Luke 12:5,KJV_APOCRYPHA]But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=James 3:6,KJV_APOCRYPHA]And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.[/VERSE][/VERSE]

Well a lot of verses say it's a fire. But what type of fire, physical fire or spiritual fire?
Then there's destruction of the wicked and also James says

"They are wandering stars, reserved for blackness"

 

[Saint Beloved]

Well a lot of verses say it's a fire. But what type of fire, physical fire or spiritual fire?
Then there's destruction of the wicked and also James says

"They are wandering stars, reserved for blackness"

Again, I don't know the full extent of torment.
I can't ellaborate on what I don't know or understand.
I do think that by the number of references of Hell towards believers is more than unbelievers so it emphasises to us that believers who turn and reject after knowing God's greatness are in more danger than those never having known it.

*again apologies for messing up the codes verses are displaying now*

 

[archer75]

... who asked you if you want to be born or not? .... and im not necessarily complaining about this life - its the next.



i believe in God, struggle with Jesus and His reality. been through methodist, baptist, presbyterians, calvinists, and then anabaptist doctrines and now im done w organized "church" as we call it. non of them answered this question specifically. im in my late 20s.

That sounds exhausting (to "pack all that in" by your late 20s. You have my sympathy. I wish I could give you a great answer, but I can't.

I don't believe that God thrusts us into hell for "eternity" as a punishment in the same way you'd confine someone to a chair in the corner for a fixed span of time. In fact, I don't think God thrusts us into hell at all. Though I'm not familiar in person with the denominations you mentioned...only on paper (except for Baptists in the sense that I used to attend a church that was nominally non-Baptist but largely Baptist in outlook ...). So maybe I don't fully grasp their teachings. in fact, I definitely don't.

And you know what? If you feel like someone created you and now is holding you to an impossible standard with the threatened punishment of eternal torment for an infraction, I think the rejoinder "I didn't ask to be born" is legitimate, despite its association with spoiled teenagers.

If you kept someone prisoner in a tiny cell and ordered them every day to "eat bread but also never eat bread," and then tortured them whatever they did because they had "broken the rules," they would be quite justified in saying "I didn't ask to be kept prisoner and held to your self-contradicting rules!"

If you feel like that, then I think you should reconsider why you feel that way and what else might make more sense and be less distressing.

It really IS distressing to feel like you're in an impossible situation. I sympathize more than I can say.

 

[chriscomplex]

Let's say you have the power to create intelligent beings. The beings you fashion did not ask to be formed. You decided to create them because you are creative, it is in your nature to make things, you are love, and you create beings capable of loving- but MOST importantly, you want to lavish your love on beings you create.

You make your beings, and you give them boundaries (for their good- so they will be happy and healthy). Your beings are wilful and decide they know better than you, and operate outside the boundaries.

Because you love these beings, and desire their eternal health and happiness, you have set up eternal laws that can not be violated. If they are, the beings are no longer happy and healthy.

He has our good as His ultimate driving force for what He does.

Well if that's true what would it accomplish letting sinners continue suffering in hell. If God wishes our utter most well being then hell can't exsit.

 

[chriscomplex]

Again, I don't know the full extent of torment.
I can't ellaborate on what I don't know or understand.

Yes I understand, but there are words such as "Torment" "Fire" "Destruction" "Blackness" so they can only mean certain things.

 

[Galatea]

Well if that's true what would it accomplish letting sinners continue suffering in hell. If God wishes our utter most well being then hell can't exsit.

Would you really want to live forever in sin? I can think of nothing worse to have to carry this old sinful nature with me for eternity.

I am not sure if I am leaning toward annhilation of those poor souls in Hell. I am not privy to what God plans after the second coming and Death and Satan are done away.

I do know that whatever He plans, it will be for His creatures good. He is good and He is just.

 

[Saint Beloved]

Yes I understand, but there are words such as "Torment" "Fire" "Destruction" "Blackness" so they can only mean certain things.

The meanings of the words are revealed by their books context and the Holy Spirit's guidance, anything else would surely be human folly.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Well if that's true what would it accomplish letting sinners continue suffering in hell. If God wishes our utter most well being then hell can't exsit.

Of course God wishes for our well being. But some of us decide we don't want a relationship with Him, so that is what we get. Choices have consequences.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[chriscomplex]

Would you really want to live forever in sin? I can think of nothing worse to have to carry this old sinful nature with me for eternity.

I am not sure if I am leaning toward annhilation of those poor souls in Hell. I am not privy to what God plans after the second coming and Death and Satan are done away.

I do know that whatever He plans, it will be for His creatures good. He is good and He is just.

I see, well those who are in hell for eternity will be there as sinners. Right?

 

[chriscomplex]

The meanings of the words are revealed by their books context and the Holy Spirit's guidance, anything else would surely be human folly.

OK, then what does your "Spirit" tell you about those words.

 

[Saint Beloved]

What did you actually get wrong?

I stated that Scripture said something specific when it didn't, it was inferred. Therefore I lied and bore false witness.

Here is a video you might find interesting He's a respected scholar and teacher on the end times and big believer in Biblical Hell.

 

[archer75]

I stated that Scripture said something specific when it didn't, it was inferred. Therefore I lied and bore false witness.

Here is a video you might find interesting He's a resoected scholar and teacher on the end times and big believer in Biblical Hell.

Making a mistake isn't a "lie." And it's certainly not "bearing false witness" in the sense "lying and saying you saw someone commit a crime when you really didn't."