Why are there religious people?

[Archaeopteryx]

Because there are deeper levels of reality available than that which we normally experience. When people have glimpses or more profound experiences of an altered state of consciousness there is a need to make sense of it. Religion can do that.

Religion claims to be able to do that. In my view, it does poorly.

But religion can also get in the way of further expansion and learning, hence thats why there is a huge expansion of people who identify as "spiritual and not religious". The rise of the new atheism is mainly in response to fundamentalist religion of one sort or another, religious practicioners who are relying on a one size fits all, hand me down version of reality. So education can certainly deal with some bad aspects of religion, but it won,t necessarily answer the deeper existential needs of human beings. There needs to be a growing up of religion, not an eradication and there are hopeful signs.

I don't think religion necessarily does well in answering "the deeper existential needs of human beings."

 

[GrimKingGrim]

To add on to your post there Dibby. The rise of "new Atheism" is a consequence of the information age.

People are curious now more than ever and unlike previously are able to gain the knowledge and information they seek in a single click. This has brought rise to questioning of EVERYTHING.

The rise of information and curiosity impedes what religion wants. Religion wants obedience, structure, and no questions. Freedom wants as much as you are willing to seek.

 

[TheBarrd]

What do you mean "resurrect"? You were evasive and attempted to derail the thread.

The thread is actually supposed to be about why there are religious people.
It isn't supposed to be about the definition of faith, or whether or not gay is okay, or even whether abortion is a good thing.

Do you know why there are religious people?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The thread is actually supposed to be about why there are religious people.
It isn't supposed to be about the definition of faith, or whether or not gay is okay, or even whether abortion is a good thing.

If you knew that from the beginning then why did you bring all those issues up? No one made mention of same-sex marriage or abortion until you did. It seems that you only want to stick to the OP when it is convenient for you.

Do you know why there are religious people?

I already gave my response this. I think the reasons are many. This page does a good job of summarising some of those reasons.

 

[TheBarrd]

Each one must decide in his or her own mind what he/she thinks/feels about his/her faith...or lack of faith, as the case may be.

 

[FireDragon76]

Walk past all the placard-waving people who picket the clinic and holler "abortion is murder"? You still want to pretend that there is no attempt to impose guilt on these women?

Women will tend to feel guilt about abortion whether or not they are influenced by a religious group, the only way a person could not is if they were to put themselves in emotional and mental denial. This phenomenon is well known, the only question is how religious groups choose to support women who face unwanted pregnancies.

I used to go to a church (it was a liberal, Independent Catholic parish) that refused to participate in abortion clinic protests, and was criticized by the local Roman Catholic diocese after being invited to participate, and then rebuffed, but they gave money routinely to the local crisis-pregnancy center.

 

[Colter]

In America the abortion movement was originally a eugenics program intended to control the black population.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Women will tend to feel guilt about abortion whether or not they are influenced by a religious group, the only way a person could not is if they were to put themselves in emotional and mental denial. This phenomenon is well known, the only question is how religious groups choose to support women who face unwanted pregnancies.

I used to go to a church (it was a liberal, Independent Catholic parish) that refused to participate in abortion clinic protests, and was criticized by the local Roman Catholic diocese after being invited to participate, and then rebuffed, but they gave money routinely to the local crisis-pregnancy center.

I don't at all doubt that the situation stirs all kinds of emotions. It's complicated enough without placard-waving protestors heaping scorn on women attending a clinic.

 

[KCfromNC]

I think my points above should make clear why your counter-example is erroneous, but I will provide a short answer anyway.

You might think that, but I don't see it. I never mentioned anything about referees. Was your quote here intentionally ironic:

Such a strange statement makes me think you either haven't read the thread or haven't put much thought into it.

 

[TheBarrd]

Women will tend to feel guilt about abortion whether or not they are influenced by a religious group, the only way a person could not is if they were to put themselves in emotional and mental denial. This phenomenon is well known, the only question is how religious groups choose to support women who face unwanted pregnancies.

I used to go to a church (it was a liberal, Independent Catholic parish) that refused to participate in abortion clinic protests, and was criticized by the local Roman Catholic diocese after being invited to participate, and then rebuffed, but they gave money routinely to the local crisis-pregnancy center.

We are always very grateful to organizations that donate to this cause. You are helping to save lives.

 

[TheBarrd]

I don't at all doubt that the situation stirs all kinds of emotions. It's complicated enough without placard-waving protestors heaping scorn on women attending a clinic.

Too many pro choice nuts seem to think women actually want to have abortions. They think it is "a simple procedure, like having a wart removed". They imagine the cool, sophisticated, woman-about-town, sauntering in, having her procedure, and walking out, with no more concern than if she'd just had a manicure.
I assure you, that just is not true.
Most of those women are scared down to their toenails. They no more want to have the abortion than they want to go swimming in a shark infested pool.
You are NOT "empowering women". If you are "pro choice", you are doing far more harm than you could possibly realize. It's not the nasty Christians who are giving these poor women guilt complexes. It is the fact that they are consenting to the death of their baby. You can call it a "clump of cells" all you like...the pregnant woman knows that that "clump of cells" is her baby.
And how does one murder their own child, even if it is legal...without guilt?

 

[TillICollapse]

Too many pro choice nuts seem to think women actually want to have abortions. They think it is "a simple procedure, like having a wart removed". They imagine the cool, sophisticated, woman-about-town, sauntering in, having her procedure, and walking out, with no more concern than if she'd just had a manicure.
I assure you, that just is not true.
Most of those women are scared down to their toenails. They no more want to have the abortion than they want to go swimming in a shark infested pool.
You are NOT "empowering women". If you are "pro choice", you are doing far more harm than you could possibly realize. It's not the nasty Christians who are giving these poor women guilt complexes. It is the fact that they are consenting to the death of their baby. You can call it a "clump of cells" all you like...the pregnant woman knows that that "clump of cells" is her baby.
And how does one murder their own child, even if it is legal...without guilt?

Let me ask you, do you WANT women to have guilt over abortions ? I'm not asking if they will or not, rather, do you personally desire for women to feel and have guilt over such a thing ?

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think religion necessarily does well in answering "the deeper existential needs of human beings."

Hundreds of millions of people disagree.

 

[TillICollapse]

Hundreds of millions of people disagree.

And hundreds of millions of those cannot agree with each other either.

 

[FireDragon76]

And hundreds of millions of those cannot agree with each other either.

I happen to be a liberal Christian (at least by the standards of this forum, in RL I am probably just moderate), which means I think those differences are largely unimportant. Most mainline Protestants and Catholics would also agree. Faith in God takes many forms, that doesn't mean that faith is fundamentally in contradiction.

Pope Benedict XVI had it right, it's a terrible thing to have a question mark at the center of your life. Faith is grounding in a way that unbelief cannot be.

There are many confessions of Christian faith, many denominations, and of course, many disagreements about largely secondary matters. The only question is who do you say Jesus is?

 

[TillICollapse]

I happen to be a liberal Christian (at least by the standards of this forum, in RL I am probably just moderate), which means I think those differences are largely unimportant. Most mainline Protestants and Catholics would also agree. Faith in God takes many forms, that doesn't mean that faith is fundamentally in contradiction.

Pope Benedict XVI had it right, it's a terrible thing to have a question mark at the center of your life. Faith is grounding in a way that unbelief cannot be.

There are many confessions of Christian faith, many denominations, and of course, many disagreements about largely secondary matters. The only question is who do you say Jesus is?

Spoken like someone with a bias, no offense.

While having a question mark at the center of ones life is arguably quite common at various points in one's experience throughout their life, resolving that question mark can come in many forms, "religion" not always being the conduit to facilitate how someone finds their resolve and "grounding".

 

[TheBarrd]

Let me ask you, do you WANT women to have guilt over abortions ? I'm not asking if they will or not, rather, do you personally desire for women to feel and have guilt over such a thing ?

Do you think I am some kind of monster?
What I personally desire is that there be no reason for them to feel guilt at all...could I do whatever I wish the most to do, I would turn back time for them. I would love to personally place their living, healthy child in their arms.

If you are asking me if I would take their guilt from them if I could, my answer would have to be that only God can do that.

I have wept my heart out with too many of them to have to answer a question like that.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Too many pro choice nuts seem to think women actually want to have abortions. They think it is "a simple procedure, like having a wart removed". They imagine the cool, sophisticated, woman-about-town, sauntering in, having her procedure, and walking out, with no more concern than if she'd just had a manicure.
I assure you, that just is not true.
Most of those women are scared down to their toenails. They no more want to have the abortion than they want to go swimming in a shark infested pool.
You are NOT "empowering women". If you are "pro choice", you are doing far more harm than you could possibly realize. It's not the nasty Christians who are giving these poor women guilt complexes. It is the fact that they are consenting to the death of their baby. You can call it a "clump of cells" all you like...the pregnant woman knows that that "clump of cells" is her baby.
And how does one murder their own child, even if it is legal...without guilt?

I've known women who have...so your incredulity is unnecessary. I can assure you though, from personal experience, that the guilt heaped upon women who aren't ready to be mothers by christians is enormous. You'd probably be surprised how little guilt/shame/embarrassment they feel once they genuinely stop caring about what people like you think of them.

 

[TillICollapse]

Do you think I am some kind of monster?
What I personally desire is that there be no reason for them to feel guilt at all...could I do whatever I wish the most to do, I would turn back time for them. I would love to personally place their living, healthy child in their arms.

If you are asking me if I would take their guilt from them if I could, my answer would have to be that only God can do that.

I have wept my heart out with too many of them to have to answer a question like that.

It was a very straightforward question: do you actually want them to feel guilty ? Most of your response here doesn't directly address my question. The only part that comes close is the "What I personally desire is that there be no reason for them to feel guilt at all ..." but that is a sidestep to answering the question.

Let's say you have a woman who gets an abortion, but feels or experiences no guilt. Do you want this woman to feel and experience guilt ? Or will you be pleased that they do not feel or experience guilt ?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Women will tend to feel guilt about abortion whether or not they are influenced by a religious group, the only way a person could not is if they were to put themselves in emotional and mental denial. This phenomenon is well known, the only question is how religious groups choose to support women who face unwanted pregnancies.

I used to go to a church (it was a liberal, Independent Catholic parish) that refused to participate in abortion clinic protests, and was criticized by the local Roman Catholic diocese after being invited to participate, and then rebuffed, but they gave money routinely to the local crisis-pregnancy center.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2011/06/10/happy-abortioncatholic-womans-guiltfree-story/

Is this woman in denial then? She seems keenly aware of all the implications of her abortion...yet, not at all unhappy she terminated her pregnancy.