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Featured Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DM25, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First of all, Rom.26:16 doesn't exist. There are only 16 chapters in Romans.

    Secondly, the word aionios doesn't occur in Romans 1:20, let alone in the singular.

    There is no need to refute your argument to show that it is flawed. Since you are claiming it is the truth all one has to do is show an alternative reasonable interpretation that opposes yours. Oldmantook already did that. Therefore your argument is flawed. IOW it isn't necessarily true. You failed to prove the truth of it. Oldmantook provided another reasonable interpretation which you could not refute. Therefore your "proof text" type of argument that aionios means eternal in Rom.16:26 failed. All you have is a theory & assumptions, not a proof.

    Furthermore, even if (a big if, in this case) 2 words are synonymous (i.e. synonyms), it doesn't follow that they have identical meanings. Especially when they are used in completely different contexts 15 chapters apart from each other. Since words often have a range of meanings, even synonymous words may have completely different meanings in different contexts. So your argument is based on air, assumption/s & it is not logically foolproof.

    http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
     
  2. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What relevance do such extrabiblical Jewish beliefs have? Jesus said to beware of the teaching of the Pharisees, who BTW believed in endless punishment.

    "Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."

    "Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14).
    Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

    Jesus, speaking to Pharisees, said:

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


    Scripture says:

    "Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."
    (Titus 1:14).

    Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)



    Unproven & irrelevant. Whether true or not. Scripture says:

    "Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."

    "Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14). Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

    Jesus, speaking to Pharisees, said:

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



    2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    Such as the fable or myth of endless torments of the Dark & Middle ages, Inquisitions, Crusades, burning of "heretics", etc.

    In contrast to the fables & myths of endless torments, Paul says again to Timothy:

    1Tim.4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    1Tim.2 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-torments-were-true-is-god-a-monster.8042349/
     
  3. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those are deceptive erroneous translations:

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/augustines-ignorance-error-re-matthew-25-46.8041938/

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/have-you-been-decieved-by-your-bible-translation.8039822/

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...in-duration-with-aionion-in-mt-25-46.8069208/


    Mark 9 43-49 addressed here:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...sition-to-endless-hell.8042016/#post-72141156


    Addressed at the following url. Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-a-universalism.8070242/page-14#post-72882151


    Addressed here:

    Matthew 7:21-23:
    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...torture-in-fire.8041369/page-35#post-72162632

    Addressed here:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...sition-to-endless-hell.8042016/#post-72141042


    Nope. That's pure assumption. And wrong.


    A fate compared to death is nothing. Death is merely the instant one passes from this life to the next. And the word "nonexistence" is nowhere used in the Old or New Testaments. The urls above address those Matthew passages in detail.


    That passage opposes your theories:

    10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

    Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

    Heb.1:2a in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all

    Heb.1:3b When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

    Heb.2:2b every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty

    Heb.2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

    8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put
    under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by
    the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render
    powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

    15 And might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

    He didn't teach "eternal punishment". Neither did He use the language you quoted above from some Jews, e.g. Pharisees. Instead He warned His disciples re the false teachings of the Pharisees & their "traditions of men" that oppose the Word of God. He said not to give heed to Jewish fables & myths. That includes horror tales like what you've quoted above from Judaism, which opposes Biblical Christianity.

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
     
  4. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    I have made an answer to everything you have post. Please show me where I have not and I will rectify it.

    1 Tim does not say that, you are adding to scripture.

     
  5. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    It find it hard to fathom why a God of love would want to punish someone in a horrid way for simply rejecting him.

    Its also hard to fathom that somebody who has led a really wicked life can get into heaven by repentance and yet a good person could burn in hell for ever for because they rejected Jesus.
     
  6. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Creating a God in your own image. "If I was God I would not punish the wicked so it follows that God would not do that either." Here is God not punishing someone in a horrid way for simply rejecting him.
    Gen 7:11
    (11) In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.
    Gen 7:20-22
    (20) The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.
    (21) Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
    (22) Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.
    Gen 19:24-25
    (24) Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.
    (25) Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land.
    Eze 9:5-7
    (5) As I listened, he [God] said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion.
    (6) Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.
    (7) Then he said to them, "Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!" So they went out and began killing throughout the city.
    1Sa 15:3
    (3) Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
     
  7. Dan the deacon

    Dan the deacon Well-Known Member

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    It amazes me that someone finds it proper to change the Bible to mean what they want it to mean. I suppose if you look hard enough you could find an unholy bible saying sin is good. Universalism is a lie.
    I'm off to a real thread... with believers in the real Christ.
     
  8. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, can we agree that it's wise to keep an open mind to the truth!

    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

    Hell is Leaving the Bible "forever."
    By Gary Amirault

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_is_Leaving_the_Bible_Forever.html
     
  9. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    God will not punish with fire those who reject him, that is mans misunderstanding of God, those who hold the view of an eternally tormenting God or a God of annihilation via fire are believers but have yet to realize what manner of spirit they are of.


    Luke 9:51-56
    51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

    Re-read those scriptures.

    In them you will see those who rejected Christ.

    You will see the future church say burn them up in the fire.

    You will see Jesus rebuking the future church saying they know not what manner of spirit they are of, for the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.
     
  10. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    ya it suck so many translator do that
     
  11. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Wrong, as usual! You have never addressed these four passages although I have asked you more than once.
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 1 Corinthians 15:50
    Galatians 5:19-21 Ephesians 5:5
    Unlike a lot of folks I am very careful to not quote passages out-of-context. If I interpret 1 Tim 4:10 the way you do, I have to ignore the four passages above. In one verse Paul said "Christ is the savior of all men." In the four passages above Paul said four (4) times that the unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, fornicators, unclean, lascivious, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditionists, heresies, envious, murders, drunkenness, revellers, whoremongers, unclean person, covetous, corruption shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    .....I have asked you several times to reconcile these passages but you have never done so.

     
  12. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Wrong! He already has, annihilated people by fire, Sodom and Gomorrah

    Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context. Why did the disciples ask that Jesus command fire to come down and consume the Samaritans? Maybe they were thinking of 1 Ki 18:38 when Elijah prayed and God sent down fire and destroyed 850 false prophets of Baal and Asherah.
    Here is Jesus speaking about God punishing with fire. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
    ….. I acknowledge there were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not negate anything in this post.

    Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
    The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
    Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of Christian translators.
    (I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
    But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
    … heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

    Link:Jewish Encyclopedia Online
    Encyclopedia Judaica:
    Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

    During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; see *Moloch). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
    In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/gehinnom
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
    The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
    Link:Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
    When Jesus taught about,
    • “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:Matthew 25:41
    • "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
    • "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
    • "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
    • “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.Matthew 18:6
    • “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Matthew 7:23
    • “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24
    • “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
    These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence. A fate worse than death is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
    Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as death, it would have meant something worse to them.
    …..Jesus knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment” to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which only reinforced their belief.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  13. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    I see you have a selective reading or comprehension problem.

    Here again is my answer to those scriptures.

    What! You want a scripture that plainly says each of these individuals will enter the kingdom? Would it really do any good, we have already seen you reject the plain reading of 1 Tim.


    But as it just so happens scriptures do in fact show these type of individuals will enter the kingdom.


    Matt 21:31 "Which of the two did the will of his father?" They *said, "The first." Jesus *said to them, "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.


    Now tell me DA how the tax collectors and prostitutes get into the kingdom?

    Please, please don’t say God will change them before they get into the kingdom of heaven, because that is the answer I have already given you concerning those verses you used to say 1 Tim cannot mean what it says and you have rejected that understanding.


    There I have just reconciled those scriptures with 1Tim 4:10 so now you can interpret it the way I do and the way it is plainly said.

    You know people ask all the time if God wants us to believe something why does He not come right out and say what he wants us to believe.

    My answer is He did and it is recorded in 1 Tim.4:10

    Do you at least not find it passing strange that what I believe is actually recorded in scripture and what you believe is not.
     
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  14. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

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    ya I seen that cut and paste already and if annihilation be true how then is God going to restore Sodom as scriptures tell us. ooops
     
  15. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Gehenna is hell. And as I said, matters of the kingdom of God are not as dark for some as others. Jesus promised we would know the truth if we obey his teaching. Truth drives out darkness.

    Some of the untruths some believe grieve me. There are serious consequences to some lies.

    But can certainly meet in Heaven. Not convinced false doctrine will be a laughing matter though. I suspect more that we will learn from others who saw in this life more clearly than we did. Humility will be the key.
     
  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I will say this only once. Keep your responses directed toward the topic and refrain from insulting comments.
    This says specifically "tax collectors and prostitutes." Here is the list that Paul said would not inherit the kingdom of God "unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, fornicators, unclean, lascivious, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditionists, heresies, envious, murders, drunkenness, revellers, whoremongers, unclean person, covetous, corruption." I don't see "tax collectors and prostitutes"

    You are the one who has to PROVE that the 29 groups listed above will be changed and enter the kingdom of God. You have not and cannot do that.
    No you have not reconciled anything. If the 29 groups I mentioned would sometime in the future be allowed to enter the kingdom of God. I wonder why Paul did not say anything about it in 1 Cor, Gal and Eph?
    And my answer is you ignore that the words of God also came right out and said specifically "the unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, fornicators, unclean, lascivious, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditionists, heresies, envious, murders, drunkenness, revellers, whoremongers, unclean person, covetous, corruption." shall not inherit the kingdom of God. in
    1 Cor 6:9-10, 1 Cor 15:50, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:5
    .....And nowhere does scripture say these specific groups will inherit the kingdom of God. If Paul knew that God was going to ultimately save everyone no matter what why didn't he come right out and say it in these four passages?
    No I find it totally incredulous that you say that what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 6:9-10, 1 Cor 15:50, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:5 is not actually recorded in scripture. As I said your Bible only has one verse mine has 31,172
     
  17. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    :amen::preach:
     
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  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Agreeing with God's Word as you do is best, of course.

    Note that God DOES NOT SAY that that other one "has to PROVE" anything here (and they cannot) .

    ==========================================
    QUOTE="Der Alter, ]This says specifically "tax collectors and prostitutes." Here is the list that Paul said would not inherit the kingdom of God "unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, fornicators, unclean, lascivious, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditionists, heresies, envious, murders, drunkenness, revellers, whoremongers, unclean person, covetous, corruption." I don't see "tax collectors and prostitutes"

    You are the one who has to PROVE that the 29 groups listed above will be changed and enter the kingdom of God. You have not and cannot do that. [/QUOTE
     
  19. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    ** I'm just getting here, so I apologize if this information has already been posted.

    "Hell" is a modern word (it comes from an Old English word, "hel" which means to cover or hide). The words that have been translated as "hell" in the Bible are:
      1. Sheol (Hebrew)
      2. Hades (Greek)
      3. Tartarus (Greek)
      4. Gehenna (Greek)

    Gehenna accounts for 12 of the 13 Hell mentions, and most importantly, it comprises 100% of Jesus’ alleged references to “Hell”.

    So what is Gehenna?

    Its a valley. A literal valley. A physical, geographic location. The Valley of Hinom. In fact, here’s what this valley (and apparently Hell) looks like today.
    (See attached thumbnail)


    13 references:

     

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  20. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,715
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    This says specifically "tax collectors and prostitutes." Here is the list that Paul said would not inherit the kingdom of God "unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, fornicators, unclean, lascivious, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditionists, heresies, envious, murders, drunkenness, revellers, whoremongers, unclean person, covetous, corruption." I don't see "tax collectors and prostitutes".........................................
    You are the one who has to PROVE that the 29 groups listed above will be changed and enter the kingdom of God. You have not and cannot do that.

    Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
     
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