Why Are Masks Triggering Conflict and Rage?

[ripple the car]

The problem with this disease is that we don’t know who is and is not sick. You can be carrying this disease and even be contagious but not know it. We are all possible Typhoid Marys. We are all possible afflicted with leprosy and not even know it. So in order to get this pandemic under control, we need to all act like we are all possible carriers of this disease.

Sir, do you understand how fearful and panicked you sound?

The death rate is likely under three percent. In spite of many insisting otherwise, there is evidence that Ebola was not spread only through fluid contact or physical contact, as African nurses wearing ppe, avoiding contact with fluids, using soap and water, and taking extra care still contracted and died from the virus. This is often overlooked. Yet Ebola came into our country, with a fatality rate of anywhere from 30-90%, and we didn't respond like this.

Something is happening here, Sir.

 

[stevil]

Yet Ebola came into our country, with a fatality rate of anywhere from 30-90%, and we didn't respond like this.

How many people in USA caught Ebola?
How many people in USA died from Ebola?

It seems to me that you would have a different strategy in dealing with a highly contagious disease as to one that wasn't very contagious.

 

[sfs]

I dont wear a mask going to grocery stores.

Reason?
1, the death rate is less then 1%

That's quite a high death rate, something like 20 times as deadly as seasonal flu. In the US. that would mean a couple of million dead people if it's left unchecked. I consider that to be a lot of dead people. You don't?

2, my freedom is more important then the risk.

Can you imagine Jesus or Paul offering that argument? 'Greater love hath no man than this -- to defend his rights even if it kills a few people.' Seriously -- is anyone able to offer a Christian argument against wearing a mask?

3, if others are afraid of the virus, THEY can wear a mask and stay away from me and if there REAL afraid, they can homeshop. Why should i be the one to have to home shop because there afraid of me not wearing a mask? And if there wearing a mask, then they should feel secure enough behind it without demanding i wear one too.

That's not how masks work. You wear a mask to protect others, not yourself. Masks are much more effective when worn by the infected person, not by the one trying to avoid infection. And how does home shopping help? Somebody else is in the store shopping, either way, waiting to be infected. You really consider it your right to infect others with a deadly disease?

Over half a million people die of the regular flu every year, yet people wer not wearing masks for that.

No, less than half a million die from the flu every year -- and in many parts of the world, people do indeed wear masks during flu season. Seems like a good idea, in fact.

Where wer all the VERTUE SIGNALLERS then?

I realize it's a challenge on a Christian forum, but could you try to present a reasoned argument without being insulting?

My freedom and YOUR freedom and your children's freedom is much more important then living in a bubble. Where does the madness stop?

Are you consistent? Are you equally adamant about opposing laws restricting your freedom in other ways, e.g. do you go around naked in hot weather? Because there's a completely arbitrary law that does no one any good.

We have businesses being destroyed in the name of health and you call us selfish?

In most of the developed world, where they have functioning governments and citizens pay attention to authorities, the virus is largely under control and most businesses have been able to reopen. Only the US has this problem -- refusing to wear a mask is hurting those businesses you're concerned about.

 

[sfs]

How many people in USA caught Ebola?

Two caught it in the US. Neither died.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Sir, do you understand how fearful and panicked you sound?

The death rate is likely under three percent. In spite of many insisting otherwise, there is evidence that Ebola was not spread only through fluid contact or physical contact, as African nurses wearing ppe, avoiding contact with fluids, using soap and water, and taking extra care still contracted and died from the virus. This is often overlooked. Yet Ebola came into our country, with a fatality rate of anywhere from 30-90%, and we didn't respond like this.

Something is happening here, Sir.

A death rate under 3% extrapolated pit across the whole population would still be about 5 people were at my wedding last year would be dead. That would be by far the most funerals I would have attended in a year. It’s not some small amount. It would be a national tragedy.

The Greatest Generation stepped up when their country called upon them to risk their lives in battles overseas, taking up jobs in factories, and rationing the usage of materials at home. Today their country is asking people to wear masks outside and not gather in large groups. If World War II was happening today Germany would own mainland Europe and Japan would own the Pacific. We are a pathetic country compared to what we once were. Our generation’s task was to stay home for the good of the nation and we have been wholly incapable of doing it.

Part of being in a functioning society is sacrificing at times for the greater good of the society. Past generations sacrificed their lives for the greater good, you are being asked to wear a mask. Do it or get out of the society.

 

[Sketcher]

This makes no sense to me. I can't believe it is "symbolic of doing whatever the government tells you to do" because up until masks people weren't complaining about the many, many other things "the government tells you to do". They weren't rebelling against those things. Things like respecting the property rights of others, observing health regulations (e.g. wear shirt and shoes to public establishments), observing driving laws (speeding, seat belts, driving drunk, obeying traffic lights and signs, etc.), paying your taxes, respecting other people's safety by not assaulting them, etc.

There are thousands of laws and regulations which everyone abides by every day and nobody makes a big stink. Now, with masks, people make a big stink, and it just so happens that it's aligned with their political leader.

It's not simply being against "whatever the government tells you to do", it's about politics. Anti-mask people almost all are that way because they want to use the issue to jab at their political opponents.

1) Some of them were protesting other regulations and mandates.
2) The stay-at-home orders caused many people who would otherwise be working (and during the springtime, planting) to not be doing what they would normally do. That's going to frustrate people. The initial protests were about that, and the mask orders came in, and so all of that frustration about not being able to work and plant was able to crystalize under the symbol of people wearing masks.
3) The American people were told initially that masks were no good out of fear that hospital workers wouldn't have enough masks. While there is such a thing as a "noble lie" it was still a lie, and people remember that and have less trust than they already had in "authoritative" sources since the authority lied.
4) The movement is bottom up, not top down. In Michigan, where much of this started, there was a newly elected Democrat governor who would not be up for re-election in 2020 because her four-year term started at the beginning of 2019. So this is a governor with plenty of time left in her term with no one running against her yet. And the protests began because her policies in response to the pandemic seemed to be more severe than many people believed was warranted. They angered enough people throughout the state to come to one place, the state capitol, and protest when the objective of those orders was to keep people at home and distanced. She issued orders that made people with a lot more free time than they usually had, upset.

 

[loveofourlord]

I would barely call a less then 1% death rate a pandemic.

Question though. Should someone who knowingly has the regular flu who goes out to work be arrested?

Also do you condone shooting such a person if it wer a worse "pandemic"?

The bible does not teach what you say.

Leapers for instance wer to qourintine to protect the community. The community was not to quorintine to protect the community, lol.

If there was a ebola level outbreak and and people were breaking quarantine then yes, death might be only answer.

Always a pet peeve of mine when you have a horrible deadly disease killing people you follow a family trying to escape the quarantine zone, and the soldiers shooting peopole are made to be the badguys. I'm sorry but depending on the saverity of the disease, you risk killing thousands or millions by breaking qurantine, with this one more likly to kill a few, but your still responsible for any deaths you cause. Pandemic is not the rate of death, it's how far it's spread. And I would be up for making stricter laws on flu, and like I said at the least make it so you can't be fired for not going to work with the flu.

Probably the biggest spreaders of the flu are people going to work or school rather then avoid being fired and such.

 

[LostMarbels]

In a similar way, face masks are tied to the political conflict over our response to the coronavirus. Those who lean left politically tend to see the virus as a more dire threat; those on the right are more likely to downplay its seriousness or compare it to less deadly strains like the flu, often following the lead of conservative politicians.

Accordingly, masks may be seen as a marker of political loyalty, triggering feelings of us-versus-them. A politically liberal person may assume that someone wearing a mask is “on their team,” while those who don’t wear masks must be Fox News-watching Republicans. The anger they feel is not simply about the mask, but about believing the non-mask wearer is a certain type of person.

On the flip side, the politically conservative might interpret calls for masks as politically-driven efforts to play up the seriousness of the coronavirus. Being asked to don a mask then becomes not just a request to protect the health of others, but to give up their worldview and political allegiance. It may feel like asking a Red Sox fan to put on a Yankees jersey.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...05/why-are-masks-triggering-conflict-and-rage

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This an article I thought was poignant. Don't shoot the messenger please .

The biggest issue for me is there is no consideration for the truth. Just an agendised push for conformity. Ever heard the term 'knows just enough to get himself in trouble'? There is so much not being discussed, the masses are ill-informed. And I wonder if that is intentional.

Take for example the one singular word 'droplets' being used to cover the entire spectrum. And nothing smaller than 1 micron (1 um, 1000 nm) even exists in a sneeze or even normal breathing. You know, these 'droplets' evaporate. They leave behind droplet nuclei that are transmissible own their own. And you can readily inhale or exhale these particulates right thru the mask right along with other molecules, such as the oxygen you breathe. You know why you can breathe in a mask? Because it is not 'tight' enough to block these gases. Other particulates go right thru the mask as well with no issues.

But we are not told that. Just wear the mask and everything is awesome. Everyone is helping each other. No one. Not the CDC or any other organization is teaching about how masks actually work. Just wear one. The people here, on this website, and one's like them are far more educated than others who do not take the time to debate these issues, and do not actually take effort to look the issues up. They only get what they are given. They turn on their TV and that is their only exposure or education on the topic they get. At least 'we' actually discuss it.

The other thing for me is the inflated sense of self-importance, and moral judgement related to the issue. People actually derive a sense of purpose, well-being, and even superiority for wearing a mask. As if they are doing 'their part'. They are 'good' people. Not like the monsters that want to kill people that do not agree with their views. It is very tribal. If you do not look the same, act the same, and believe the same, you need to be punished, ridiculed, even physically hurt. Because the 'others' actions make me feel unsafe, and my emotions need to be validated. So you are going to wear that mask, because I feel safer when you do.

 

[Rajni]

The other thing for me is the inflated sense of self-importance, and moral judgement related to the issue. People actually derive a sense of purpose, well-being, and even superiority for wearing a mask. As if they are doing 'their part'. They are 'good' people. Not like the monsters that want to kill people that do not agree with their views. It is very tribal. If you do not look the same, act the same, and believe the same, you need to be punished, ridiculed, even physically hurt. Because the 'others' actions make me feel unsafe, and my emotions need to be validated. So you are going to wear that mask, because I feel safer when you do.

This. It's like a page out of a dystopian-society novel.
Take the mark -- er -- mask, or else.

On the one hand, I get the logic from a purely pandemic-protection angle. Masks might help, even if just a little. Better than nothing, I guess. But it would be naive of me to think that it absolutely ends there, especially given what people are capable of now.

I tend to be preterist in my eschatology (what little eschatology I have left, anyway), but if there is some sort of AntiChrist in our future, he's going to have it so easy! People will just cave. This mask thing looks like a dress-rehearsal, or a diagnostic tool to test the waters and see how compliant people are. Take the mask -- take the mark. I'm a little shocked that more people (believers, no less!) don't see this. And I realize none of that helps quell fears... sorry about that.

But hey -- it could just as easily not be that kind of situation we're seeing. The trick may lie in ignoring *both* the conspiracy theories *and* the news-media. (Is there a mask to protect against those, 'cause I'd wear one!

)


-

 

[stevil]

On the one hand, I get the logic from a purely pandemic-protection angle. Masks might help, even if just a little. Better than nothing, I guess. But it would be naive of me to think that it absolutely ends there, especially given what people are capable of now.
-

I don't think anyone thinks it all ends with the mask.
There are many things that people could do to lower the spread in the community.

Regularly wash hands
Don't touch your own face
Work from home (if you can)
avoid large gatherings
eat at home rather than restaurants
No parties


But it is obvious that currently people in USA aren't doing enough to reduce the spread.
Why are so many people in USA so paranoid? Why won't they do what needs to be done to save lives?

 

[cow451]

I dont wear a mask going to grocery stores.

Reason?
1, the death rate is less then 1%
2, my freedom is more important then the risk.
3, if others are afraid of the virus, THEY can wear a mask and stay away from me and if there REAL afraid, they can homeshop. Why should i be the one to have to home shop because there afraid of me not wearing a mask? And if there wearing a mask, then they should feel secure enough behind it without demanding i wear one too. I should not have to sacrifice my freedom to cater to there fears. Aspeasally fears that are irrational at that.

Well, aren’t you such a special person..... so precious and shiney that .... well.... you could be a Trump!

 

[Nithavela]

I don't think anyone thinks it all ends with the mask.
There are many things that people could do to lower the spread in the community.

Regularly wash hands
Don't touch your own face
Work from home (if you can)
avoid large gatherings
eat at home rather than restaurants
No parties


But it is obvious that currently people in USA aren't doing enough to reduce the spread.
Why are so many people in USA so paranoid? Why won't they do what needs to be done to save lives?

Why should they endanger their chances of eternal paradise to protect the life of others?

Look at it from the theory of game perspective. If there is even a tiny chance of changing their fate after death from eternal happyness to eternal torture, they would be mad not to modify their behaviour according to that tiny chance.

 

[cow451]

Its not selfish for me to refuse to cater to others fears of the virus,
Its selfish to require us to wear a mask
Give me a break.

How about self-absorbed? That better?

 

[cow451]

We should be Christians first citizens of this world second and that means caring for others even if you don't think it does good or like it

QFT

 

[KCfromNC]

A taxi driver cought the virus despite his passengers wearing masks.

And people get in accidents due to their car's brakes failing. So?

 

[cow451]

And people get in accidents due to their car's brakes failing. So?

So? Isn’t it obvious? Brakes don’t work. Stop telling people they have to have them on their cars! How dense are you pro-brake people?

 

[KCfromNC]

Sir, do you understand how fearful and panicked you sound?

The death rate is likely under three percent.

If your car killed you 1 in every 30 times you took a trip, would that bother you?

 

[KCfromNC]

So? Isn’t it obvious? Brakes don’t work. Stop telling people they have to have them on their cars! How dense are you pro-brake people?

Eh, needs more rhetoric about how you're expressing your freedom and everyone else making similar personal choices is selfishness.

 

[Tom 1]

.

<<<<< I now wear a mask at all times.

OB

Even in the bath?

 

[KCfromNC]

1) Some of them were protesting other regulations and mandates.
2) The stay-at-home orders caused many people who would otherwise be working (and during the springtime, planting) to not be doing what they would normally do. That's going to frustrate people. The initial protests were about that, and the mask orders came in, and so all of that frustration about not being able to work and plant was able to crystalize under the symbol of people wearing masks.
3) The American people were told initially that masks were no good out of fear that hospital workers wouldn't have enough masks. While there is such a thing as a "noble lie" it was still a lie, and people remember that and have less trust than they already had in "authoritative" sources since the authority lied.
4) The movement is bottom up, not top down. In Michigan, where much of this started, there was a newly elected Democrat governor who would not be up for re-election in 2020 because her four-year term started at the beginning of 2019. So this is a governor with plenty of time left in her term with no one running against her yet. And the protests began because her policies in response to the pandemic seemed to be more severe than many people believed was warranted. They angered enough people throughout the state to come to one place, the state capitol, and protest when the objective of those orders was to keep people at home and distanced. She issued orders that made people with a lot more free time than they usually had, upset.

I thought the protests started because Donald tweeted about liberating states, followed closely by people with ties to his administration astro-turfing for the same. Or maybe I have the timeline backwards, but those happened fairly close together, and fairly close to the sudden magical appearance of "bottom up" groups with nearly identical wording for their messages.