Why Are Masks Triggering Conflict and Rage?

[jollybear]

The non-maskers are very selective in the freedoms they support:

Wer selective because freedom ranges to multiple areas of reality and life. So theres going to be a broad range of views on numerious issues. I'm not talking about multiple issues, just masks now. If you wanna talk other issues, make a separate thread on that.

1. It has to be their freedom for it to matter.

It has to be RIGHT for it to matter.

2. Shirt and shoe ordinances are fine, masks are not.

Right because I LIKE wearing shoes and clothes so its a none issue.

3. Seat belt laws are ok (now that they are accustomed to them)

No there still not ok. But I'm talking about masks not seat belts. Make another thread on seat belts.

They do not want others to be free to safely leave their homes to perform essential tasks

Yea we do! They sure can and when they do they can implement the precautions themselves.

5. They do not want others to be free to drive impeeded

I already dealt with this point in many posts back. Repeating the same refuted point is bad. Driving drunk means you know your drunk and therefore can kill others. Thats not the same as not knowing if your asymptomatic or not.

6. They do not want others to have the freedom to add ingredients to their food

We want to simply know what wer buying, yea! If they freely want our money, then they need to freely tell us what the product is.

7. Laws or EOs banning access to parts of the internet are fine.

I dont know what this is.

It is an extremely narrow scope of freedoms they are "fighting for." They do not wish to be "uncomfortable" to aid in the preservation of the lives and wellbeing of others.

First of all, we dont trust the media or the government narrative behind covid19.

Second this is all inconsistent.

third those who fear they can take precautions.

Anything you do to make them uncomfortable likely falls into this category of infringing on their freedom, but anything they do to make you uncomfortable (or in peril) is acceptable as they should be free.

Then they can make themselves more comfortable by staying away from us and doing the protective precautions for themselves. Why is this point not registering snd being TRULY ADDRESSED?

 

[Pommer]

If you did not wear a mask during flu seasons past before covid19 showed up on the scene, that is inconsistent and inconsistent means you are wrong because other viruses kill people too, not just covid19.

Oh? I’m a hypocrite because I treat one coronavirus different than ANOTHER DISEASE ALTOGETHER?

So what?

 

[KCfromNC]

If you did not wear a mask during flu seasons past before covid19 showed up on the scene, that is inconsistent and inconsistent means you are wrong because other viruses kill people too, not just covid19.

It isn't inconsistent so much as understanding that the risks of the two are different. And one has a vaccine. I pointed this out before and you ignored it.

And more importantly, what does it matter? Does someone being inconsistent mean that it is suddenly OK for you to ignore the advice of medical professionals and go out in public without a mask and put other people at risk? Where's the logic in that? Seem like yet another in a long list of excuses to avoid doing the right thing here.

Sounds like coercion. If there's no alternatives then this is coercion. They dont own my face.

No, they just own the property you want to visit. Not allowing you to do so if you don't follow their rules on their private property is one of the many rights that property owners have.

 

[KCfromNC]

Right because I LIKE wearing shoes and clothes so its a none issue.

Ah, I think I see the problem. The concept of rights is a bit more complex than "I get to do whatever I LIKE without consequences".

Then they can make themselves more comfortable by staying away from us and doing the protective precautions for themselves. Why is this point not registering snd being TRULY ADDRESSED?

It is - people have pointed out that business owners are taking precautions and banning people who don't wear masks. The response?

"Sounds like coercion. If there's no alternatives then this is coercion. They dont own my face."

Seems pretty disingenuous to claim something isn't being addressed after replying to the posts which addressed it. Makes it seem like the post doesn't really have any good answers to the points being responded to.

Also quite suspicious that actual well established legal rights, like those of property owners to control who is allowed on their property, are being ignored in favor of made up ones like the right to go out in public during a pandemic in ways which put others at increased risk.

 

[jollybear]

Oh? I’m a hypocrite because I treat one coronavirus different than ANOTHER DISEASE ALTOGETHER?

So what?

Not so what at all. Its not that the viruses are all the same. Its that your treating one set of lives dying as not important enough to take precautions to protect them, but the other set of lives dying from COVID-19 is important to protect them.

Die of other viruses or flu? Who cares.

Die of coronavirus? Can't have that happen!

It isn't inconsistent so much as understanding that the risks of the two are different.

Yea, but theres STILL risks involved with every other virus and many of the other viruses KILL as well. Doesn't each life matter to you?

And one has a vaccine. I pointed this out before and you ignored it.

And I also pointed it out to you that a vaccine does not always work. PLUS I pointed out to you that many other viruses DO NOT have a vaccine. So, does not every life matter to you? Why not protect everyone if it means illuminating all potential deaths?

And more importantly, what does it matter? Does someone being inconsistent mean

Lol, what does it matter!? It matters ALOT! inconsistentcy is a double standard and no one should respect double standards.

that it is suddenly OK for you to ignore the advice of medical professionals and go out in public without a mask and put other people at risk?

First of, not all medical professionals agree on these draconian orders.

Second of all the medical professionals you say i ignore. YES I ignore them because I DO NOT TRUST THERE ADVICE.

Also dont talk to me about putting others at risk when you have done so for decades not wearing a mask. Referring to all other viruses past. Ones not having vaccines and even ones with.

Where's the logic in that? Seem like yet another in a long list of excuses to avoid doing the right thing here.

I told you the logic in it above. Its not an excuse. Its solid reasoning. And it'd not the right thing. Your not doing the right thing because your living in a bubble. A bubble you inconsistently did not live in pre covid19.

No, they just own the property you want to visit. Not allowing you to do so if you don't follow their rules on their private property is one of the many rights that property owners have.

Oh I see, so by this logic if government tells a business to not discriminate between race, religion and sex and that particular business owner wants to discriminate, then they should be allowed to because its there property? Hey, its THERE property by the way!

Ah, I think I see the problem. The concept of rights is a bit more complex than "I get to do whatever I LIKE without consequences".

Yes, it is complex. Just how reality is always complex. Deal with the complexities im giving you and stop ignoring them.

It is - people have pointed out that business owners are taking precautions and banning people who don't wear masks. The response?

"Sounds like coercion. If there's no alternatives then this is coercion. They dont own my face."

Kinda odd that there's no businesses around that dont have a sign saying "masks required" dont ya think? You see before the stupid government mandated it, SOME businesses did not make it a policy. So dont talk to me about trespassing when its the stupid government thats doing the very thing in itself!

Seems pretty disingenuous to claim something isn't being addressed after replying to the posts which addressed it. Makes it seem like the post doesn't really have any good answers to the points being responded to.

Its pretty disingenuous to apply to me what belongs to you.

Also quite suspicious that actual well established legal rights, like those of property owners to control who is allowed on their property, are being ignored in favor of made up ones like the right to go out in public during a pandemic in ways which put others at increased risk.

Also quite suspicious that actual well established legal rights, like those of property owners to make there own mandates on there own property, are being ignored by governments in favor of made up ones like no right to go out in public during a pandemic in ways which put others at increased risk despite the fact they can take no risks themselves.

 

[jayem]

Sounds like coercion. If there's no alternatives then this is coercion. They dont own my face.

But they own their business. And within the law, they’re entitled to determine what is proper conduct for a customer on their property.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

If you did not wear a mask during flu seasons past before covid19 showed up on the scene, that is inconsistent and inconsistent means you are wrong because other viruses kill people too, not just covid19.

Apples and oranges. The Flu is not as deadly, aggressive, or unavoidable as Covid and there is a vaccine for the Flu. It's like saying that if you don't wear a condom all the time to stop the spread o HIV then you're being a hypocrite when you wear a mask - it's just hyperbole meant to deflect and dodge reality.

All people in society have a responsibility towards the others in our society. This is plain fact and we all live by it every day of our lives. What's hypocritical is when people want to take one single issue, like wearing masks, and single it out as "tyranny". There is no tyranny against us in the American government. Not liking everything the American government does does not constitute "tyranny" on the government's part; rather, it is simply complaining. Much like a teenager might complain his parents are "mean" for not letting him stay up all night - it's just a tantrum. Christians in American have no experience of actual tyranny despite that so many like to throw that word around and cheapen the lives of Christians worldwide.

Sounds like coercion. If there's no alternatives then this is coercion. They dont own my face.

Definitely coercion. There's nothing wrong with God ordained government coercing the citizens under its authority to do what's right, in fact God ordains them to do just that - read Romans 13.

 

[LoricaLady]

This makes no sense to me. I can't believe it is "symbolic of doing whatever the government tells you to do" because up until masks people weren't complaining about the many, many other things "the government tells you to do". They weren't rebelling against those things. Things like respecting the property rights of others, observing health regulations (e.g. wear shirt and shoes to public establishments), observing driving laws (speeding, seat belts, driving drunk, obeying traffic lights and signs, etc.), paying your taxes, respecting other people's safety by not assaulting them, etc.

There are thousands of laws and regulations which everyone abides by every day and nobody makes a big stink. Now, with masks, people make a big stink, and it just so happens that it's aligned with their political leader.

It's not simply being against "whatever the government tells you to do", it's about politics. Anti-mask people almost all are that way because they want to use the issue to jab at their political opponents.

I have no desire to "jab" any political party. What a sweeping statement you made! I personally think the Republicans and Democrats are playing good politician/bad politician most of the time at every level. Ditto the constantly fear mongering MSM is playing good media/bad media. The MSM is run by about 7 people, very liberal, basically globalists. All the fighting and fuming is just theater to distract and divide the people. MHO.

My personal, admittedly not very large study, indicates that the people who are most afraid of the virus and want to enforce masks and so on, are watching a lot of t.v.

T.v. puts people into a trance state. It has been known for decades to use subliminal messages to program those watching its programs. Who knows how sinister and covert and advanced such technology has become. I am not a fan of Malcolm X but believe he got it right when he said "The media controls the masses."

I have seen that people who watch little to no (like me) t.v. were skeptical of the whole CoVid scare from the start and generally assumed it would be used, for one thing, to push a vaccine on the world. These same people looked outside the box, believed they could confidently use critical thinking and examine the data and come to their own, MSM free, and politician free, globalist free, conclusions on what is going on. They are not trying to hurt anyone by not wearing masks. They see masks as a health hazard and can quote well known doctors and other health professionals to support their opinions.

They never want to abandon common sense. It seems common sense that rebreathing your air, with less oxygen and more carbon dioxide, ain't healthy! It seems common sense that if the air goes through - guess what? Any germs or viruses go right through with it. As one researcher said, "Masks are as effective against viruses as a chain link fence is against mosquitoes." And he and others have the data to prove it. But if you try to show that to people, they usually don't listen.

Of course some viruses and germs do stick to the masks and you get to inhale them back into your lungs! The Lord made us to breathe freely.

I see people wearing masks that obviously have toxic materials in them which they are sucking into their lungs.

I see people buying chemical laden things like Purell and dish detergent to constantly wash their hands. I tell them to get hydrogen peroxide and keep it in a spray bottle. It is not laden with chemicals and is more effective.

Seeing those toxic masks, and those chemical heavy hand washing materials and seeing grocery store personnel wipe down grocery carts with more smelly chemicals makes me feel the people are just scared and not thinking at all!

I got a mask for one store that demands it. It was absurd. It had some kind of valve that supposedly filtered the air. When I tried to blow air through the valve no air went through. The cotton mask was so thick it was ridiculous.

Fresh air and sunshine, social interaction and freedom from fear and things like job security, are great for the health. But from glancing over these posts I don't expect to be believed.

So, I won't come back. Just putting in my two cents for the other side on this issue. I'm not trying to be selfish and "unChristian" when I don't wear a mask. I'm trying to be healthy and I feel very sorry for those who are covering themselves up in the mask ghetto.

Blessings and bye!

 

[Mayzoo]

I do believe since there are easy and safe precautions society can take to hamper the spread, then that is what we should do. Painless, completely safe, fast, and non-invasive methods of slowing the spread should be a very easy decision.

Based on the resistance I see here and read elsewhere, I am beginning to wonder how much longer we will be dealing with this? Other countries have been able to get this far more under control. The US's stubbornness and lack of compassion/charitableness for others have already allowed this disease to remain viable much longer than it should have been.

But, that is our steadfast freedom in action. We are free to allow this disease to remain and cause all of us difficulties far longer than it should have. The longer this remains, the more damage we do to our small businesses and our economy. But, that seems to matter even less than the health and welfare of our people.

Personal freedom overrules the US economy and societal wellbeing. I hope all the freedom fighters enjoy what is shaping up to be possibly another 2-5 years of COVID. We did, after all, finally recover from the economic and medical hardships of the 2-year flu pandemic. Control and recovery this time will most likely involve much greater governmental restrictions and for a much longer time frame, but that is irrelevant in the here and now.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I have no desire to "jab" any political party. What a sweeping statement you made! I personally think the Republicans and Democrats are playing good politician/bad politician most of the time at every level. Ditto the constantly fear mongering MSM is playing good media/bad media. The MSM is run by about 7 people, very liberal, basically globalists. All the fighting and fuming is just theater to distract and divide the people. MHO.

My personal, admittedly not very large study, indicates that the people who are most afraid of the virus and want to enforce masks and so on, are watching a lot of t.v.

T.v. puts people into a trance state. It has been known for decades to use subliminal messages to program those watching its programs. Who knows how sinister and covert and advanced such technology has become. I am not a fan of Malcolm X but believe he got it right when he said "The media controls the masses."

I have seen that people who watch little to no (like me) t.v. were skeptical of the whole CoVid scare from the start and generally assumed it would be used, for one thing, to push a vaccine on the world. These same people looked outside the box, believed they could confidently use critical thinking and examine the data and come to their own, MSM free, and politician free, globalist free, conclusions on what is going on. They are not trying to hurt anyone by not wearing masks. They see masks as a health hazard and can quote well known doctors and other health professionals to support their opinions.

They never want to abandon common sense. It seems common sense that rebreathing your air, with less oxygen and more carbon dioxide, ain't healthy! It seems common sense that if the air goes through - guess what? Any germs or viruses go right through with it. As one researcher said, "Masks are as effective against viruses as a chain link fence is against mosquitoes." And he and others have the data to prove it. But if you try to show that to people, they usually don't listen.

Of course some viruses and germs do stick to the masks and you get to inhale them back into your lungs! The Lord made us to breathe freely.

I see people wearing masks that obviously have toxic materials in them which they are sucking into their lungs.

I see people buying chemical laden things like Purell and dish detergent to constantly wash their hands. I tell them to get hydrogen peroxide and keep it in a spray bottle. It is not laden with chemicals and is more effective.

Seeing those toxic masks, and those chemical heavy hand washing materials and seeing grocery store personnel wipe down grocery carts with more smelly chemicals makes me feel the people are just scared and not thinking at all!

I got a mask for one store that demands it. It was absurd. It had some kind of valve that supposedly filtered the air. When I tried to blow air through the valve no air went through. The cotton mask was so thick it was ridiculous.

Fresh air and sunshine, social interaction and freedom from fear and things like job security, are great for the health. But from glancing over these posts I don't expect to be believed.

So, I won't come back. Just putting in my two cents for the other side on this issue. I'm not trying to be selfish and "unChristian" when I don't wear a mask. I'm trying to be healthy and I feel very sorry for those who are covering themselves up in the mask ghetto.

Blessings and bye!

You provide tons of your own opinion and theories and you make references to researchers yet you provide not one single source that can be checked out. And then you're bemoaning that you won't be believed.

Do you just believe anything someone tells you? If not, why do you expect the same from me or others?

As for evidence and sources, here is a source with some evidence for why masks work:
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

That is from the CDC which is under the Trump Administration. If you believe that Trump is permitting or promoting lies through the CDC then feel free to say so and admit that he is a globalist who is a liar.

Where do you get your information from? You complain about "media" but I have no doubt you're getting your information from the media.

 

[KCfromNC]

Not so what at all. Its not that the viruses are all the same. Its that your treating one set of lives dying as not important enough to take precautions to protect them, but the other set of lives dying from COVID-19 is important to protect them.

Die of other viruses or flu? Who cares.

Die of coronavirus? Can't have that happen!

Again, even if you're right in your assertions that others are being inconsistent here, so what? Why in the world would you look at someone else being inconsistent and think "wow, that's a great reason for me to ignore the advice of medical professionals and put other people at risk"? There's simply no logic or reason here - it really reads like an emotional knee jerk reaction to something. I just don't see the connection.

And I also pointed it out to you that a vaccine does not always work.

And then ignored my response to it. That doesn't really inspire confidence.

First of, not all medical professionals agree on these draconian orders.

Second of all the medical professionals you say i ignore. YES I ignore them because I DO NOT TRUST THERE ADVICE.

But you sure seem to trust the idea that the flu is dangerous, at least when it fits in with the previous rationalization. But now when you need to believe something different, it is all "not all medical professionals agree" and "I DO NOT TRUST THERE[sp] ADVICE".

Oh I see, so by this logic if government tells a business to not discriminate between race, religion and sex and that particular business owner wants to discriminate, then they should be allowed to because its there property? Hey, its THERE property by the way!

No, actually it is their property.

And I don't see the parallel here. There's no law against refusing service to people who refuse to wear masks. You'll have to show your work here if you want to be taken seriously.

Yes, it is complex. Just how reality is always complex. Deal with the complexities im giving you and stop ignoring them.

For all the posts about freedom and whatnot, this attempt to control how and what I post seems like an attempt to ignore my freedom to write what I want. Goes back to the previous posts showing that certain simplistic ideas of freedom don't seem to survive very well in the wild.

Kinda odd that there's no businesses around that dont have a sign saying "masks required" dont ya think?

Not really. The vast majority of people aren't emotionally predisposed to ignoring good advice.

Also quite suspicious that actual well established legal rights, like those of property owners to make there own mandates on there own property, are being ignored by governments

Yeah, I mean why is the government stopping restaurants from serving raw chicken? I mean, that goes against the rights of "property owners to make there[sp] own mandates on there own property".

 

[KCfromNC]

I have no desire to "jab" any political party. What a sweeping statement you made! I personally think the Republicans and Democrats are playing good politician/bad politician most of the time at every level. Ditto the constantly fear mongering MSM is playing good media/bad media. The MSM is run by about 7 people, very liberal, basically globalists. All the fighting and fuming is just theater to distract and divide the people. MHO.

My personal, admittedly not very large study, indicates that the people who are most afraid of the virus and want to enforce masks and so on, are watching a lot of t.v.

I see a lot of it from people who work the front lines treating the disease.

They never want to abandon common sense. It seems common sense that rebreathing your air, with less oxygen and more carbon dioxide, ain't healthy! It seems common sense that if the air goes through - guess what? Any germs or viruses go right through with it.

And yet for some reason doctors - you know, people who study for years to understand how the body works - don't agree.

I see people buying chemical laden things like Purell and dish detergent to constantly wash their hands. I tell them to get hydrogen peroxide and keep it in a spray bottle. It is not laden with chemicals and is more effective.

H2O2 is a chemical.

IThe cotton mask was so thick it was ridiculous.

Everyone notice the contradiction between this and the earlier claim that "Any germs or viruses go right through".

 

[jayem]

Apparently therr not intitled since the government forces ALL of the businesses to mandate wearing masks.

Not yet in every state. But still, what you describe isn’t a direct government order to you. You don’t have to wear a mask. You just avoid those places where mask mandates are in effect.

And BTW, if you believe the mask directives on businesses are unnecessary, ineffective, and tyrannical, don’t just gripe about it. Work constructively on organizing an opposition to legally eliminate them.

 

[jollybear]

Not yet in every state. But still, what you describe isn’t a direct government order to you. You don’t have to wear a mask. You just avoid those places where mask mandates are in effect.

Well the states I go grocery shopping it is mandated and I dont wear the mask.

And BTW, if you believe the mask directives on businesses are unnecessary, ineffective, and tyrannical, don’t just gripe about it. Work constructively on organizing an opposition to legally eliminate them.

I'm not a good organizer and I dont have time to do that either. I'll leave that to others who can. And yes, there are others doing just that. In the mean time the rest of us should just resist.

Secondly, these orders are not laws and ARE ILLEGAL in and of themselves by shutting down churches and businesses.

 

[camille70]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this...

Mourner From Robert Trump Funeral Punched Waiter Over Covid

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Its pretty close. It kills OVER half a million people worldwide every single year. Plus compound that with other viruses. And not all the viruses have vaccines and vaccines dont always work.

Not close at all. Flu kills just over half a milliion a year and COVID has killed more than 3/4 of a million in less than a year, and that's with all sorts of drastic measures such as lockdowns, masks, distancing, business restrictions, etc. Also, the majority of those flu deaths don't occur in first-world nations like the US - in the US it's very rare and a low death toll with the flu. Not so with COVID.

So, no, not even close.

Actually no its not hyperbole and its not dodging reality. If you knew you had HIV and did not wear a condom but do wear a mask, then YES that DOES make you inconsistent. I see no scenario there where you can remain rationally consistent in saying you care about people's lives in that. This mask wearing for you is all mental conditioning.

Again, this is hyperbole and dodging reality. It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" scenario as you seem to think it does. I didn't say "if you knew you had HIV" - people don't always know. Even so, you can have HIV and not spread without ever wearing a condom, because you could simply abstain from sex. Your assessment is blown out of proportion (intentionally, I believe) in order to avoid dealing with the reality of the situation.

As for the masks they are proven to decrease the spread of COVID. Whoever is telling you that it's "mental conditioning" is lying to you and you'd be smart to stop listening to them because they are liars. In fact, they are mentally conditioning you and others to disbelieve scientific fact.

No its not plain fact. There responsible for themselves. And if there afraid then they can take more precautions.

Oh it's absolutely plain fact. And yes, people have responsibilities to take for themselves, as well. One does not preclude the other. We all in a society have responsbilities to ourselves and to others to protect both ourselves and others. I cannot go to the grocery store and put my dog's feces onto a steak that you may buy later because it's against the law and that law is a control on my behavior to protect you. As a Christian, I abide by these laws because we are commanded to and because the impetus behind these laws is completely in line with Christianity in that it protects others. Those who buck against these laws are bucking against God's Word, according to Romans 13.

Its not hypocritical because we do believe is SOME laws. We don't dont believe in ALL orders. We believe in intelligent rules. Not unintelligent ones. The intelligent ones are the rules that balance freedom with others freedom. So, the rule of wearing a mask does not accomplish this because those that fear this THEY can take the protective precautions.

Well, for one, you have to believe in all orders or else you go to jail. I don't mind if they put people in jail for going against the law ordained by God through the government and indeed Romans 13 says this is right by God.

As for "intelligent vs. unintelligent" laws, it's debatable what's intelligent or unintelligent. Laws that align with scientific fact are intelligent; therefore, mask laws are very intelligent. So going by that you should support laws that make people wear masks. And you're wrong - it's not the people who fear the disease that need to wear the mask, it's the OTHER people. That's how the masks work. So it is right and necessary for the law to enforce mask-wearing on all people.

Actually thats wrong how your using romans 13. Thats referring to GOOD laws, not BAD laws. And we know that because God also approved rebellion against bad government in the bible as well.

You are wrong about Romans 13 - it says nothing about "good" and "bad" laws. If I'm wrong, show me where in Romans 13 it says anything about that (HINT: you can't).

Also, God never approved rebellion against "bad government". This and your notion about "good/bad laws" are both things you've added to the Bible and you ought to be very worried about that because God HATES that. God says:
Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is tested;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

So what! Oh....my......[bless and do not curse]!

Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

 

[jollybear]

Not close at all. Flu kills just over half a milliion a year and COVID has killed more than 3/4 of a million in less than a year, and that's with all sorts of drastic measures such as lockdowns, masks, distancing, business restrictions, etc.

The flu also kills majority of its deaths during its season. So, yea, its close to doing the same as COVID-19. Also those that die of covid19, if they wer to catch the flu first, they would die of the flu instead of covid19. You gotta consider that too.

Also world wide covid19 deaths are at 807,054, flu deaths around 500,000. And compound that with the covid19 deaths are probably not even that high due to money incentives involved and presumptions on death certificates.

So, do all lives matter to you or not? If yes, why did you not wear a mask pre covid19?

Also, the majority of those flu deaths don't occur in first-world nations like the US - in the US it's very rare and a low death toll with the flu. Not so with COVID.

Stop with the propaganda. In the USA its about 60,000 deaths yearly from flu. And 176,000 deaths from COVID-19. And as I stated above those numbers are likely not real.

But even if we assume they are real, do all lives matter to you?

If so, why did you not wear masks every year pre covid19 to save lives from the flu or any other virus?

So, no, not even close.

Yes, it is close, but even if its not, its still alot of deaths by flu, dont you care about saving those people? If yes,then why did you not wear a mask pre covid19?

Again, this is hyperbole and dodging reality. It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" scenario as you seem to think it does. I didn't say "if you knew you had HIV" - people don't always know. Even so, you can have HIV and not spread without ever wearing a condom, because you could simply abstain from sex. Your assessment is blown out of proportion (intentionally, I believe) in order to avoid dealing with the reality of the situation.

No its not dodging. In fact thats exactly what you are doing.

As for the masks they are proven to decrease the spread of COVID. Whoever is telling you that it's "mental conditioning" is lying to you and you'd be smart to stop listening to them because they are liars. In fact, they are mentally conditioning you and others to disbelieve scientific fact.

SOME masks work and those that do, do not work perfectly. In fact some people have still cought covid19 despite wearing masks and socially distancing.

But in any case, if some people are afraid then THEY can wear the masks that supposedly work according to the science you speak of. Problem solved.

Oh it's absolutely plain fact.

Oh no, its not plain fact. You can preach it all you want to but it will never be plain fact. In fact its anti fact and anti logical.

And yes, people have responsibilities to take for themselves, as well. One does not preclude the other. We all in a society have responsbilities to ourselves and to others to protect both ourselves and others.

Nope, I'm not responsible to prevent you from getting sick UNLESS I KNOW I'm sick. Outside of that, if your afraid and don't want to take risk, then its YOU thats responsible to take further precautions. I'm not responsible to protect you. And that is how you preserve a FREE WORLD!

I cannot go to the grocery store and put my dog's feces onto a steak that you may buy later because it's against the law and that law is a control on my behavior to protect you.

I'm not talking about feces on steak. I'm talking about masks. One is a obvious wrong, the other is not wrong.

As a Christian, I abide by these laws because we are commanded to and because the impetus behind these laws is completely in line with Christianity in that it protects others. Those who buck against these laws are bucking against God's Word, according to Romans 13.

Actually nope, wearing a mask is not God's law. And it does not lign up with God's law either. For God commanded leapers to qourintine from the community. He did not command the whole community to wear masks and qourintine. And yes even leprosy can be transmitted ASYMPTOMICELY.

Well, for one, you have to believe in all orders or else you go to jail. I don't mind if they put people in jail for going against the law ordained by God through the government and indeed Romans 13 says this is right by God.

These are not Gods laws through the government. The government is not God and sometimes the government goes against God. Any elementary understanding of the Bible would tell you this.

As for "intelligent vs. unintelligent" laws, it's debatable what's intelligent or unintelligent. Laws that align with scientific fact are intelligent; therefore, mask laws are very intelligent.

Nope again. Intelligent is ballencing freedom with safety and risk. So, if i want to presume risk, fine, if others don't want to, then THEY can take precautions. Thats intelligent.

So going by that you should support laws that make people wear masks. And you're wrong - it's not the people who fear the disease that need to wear the mask, it's the OTHER people. That's how the masks work. So it is right and necessary for the law to enforce mask-wearing on all people.

There you go again with the anti logic. So a virus can't go out through the mask, but can go in through the mask? Seriously? You call that science!? Thats propaganda.

You are wrong about Romans 13 - it says nothing about "good" and "bad" laws. If I'm wrong, show me where in Romans 13 it says anything about that (HINT: you can't).

Golly, where do I even begin. Theres so many bible verses where God approved of people resisting there government. Are you seriously not aware of them? Actually I think you are aware of them because if you are aware of romans, then that leads me to believe you are aware of the others.

I'll give you one example for now. The beast of revelation is a government that the saints resisted obeying and rightfully so according to God.

Also, God never approved rebellion against "bad government". This and your notion about "good/bad laws" are both things you've added to the Bible and you ought to be very worried about that because God HATES that. God says:
Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is tested;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Right, and thats why God WILL prove you a lier.

Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Exactly and this rightfully applies to you right now.

 

[jayem]

Well the states I go grocery shopping it is mandated and I dont wear the mask.

Same as here. Sometimes masks are enforced. Sometimes not. It largely depends on whether other customers complain.

Here's a question: Suppose you were asked by management to either put on a mask, or leave the store. Would you comply? Or would you resist? Hey, I get it that civil disobedience is an American tradition. Rosa Parks, and the black people who sat in at whites-only lunch counters in the early 60s are now celebrated as heroes. Is this not correct?

 

[jollybear]

Same as here. Sometimes masks are enforced. Sometimes not. It largely depends on whether other customers complain.

Here's a question: Suppose you were asked by management to either put on a mask, or leave the store. Would you comply? Or would you resist? Hey, I get it that civil disobedience is an American tradition. Rosa Parks, and the black people who sat in at whites-only lunch counters in the early 60s are now celebrated as heroes. Is this not correct?

I already was asked 3 times by door greeters to put a mask on before entering. I said no thanks and walked in anyway. All other times it was not inforced.

If under the scenario a manager was called to inforce it, I'd say no and keep shopping. If he told cashier to not ring me up, then I'd leave and return later.

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

Due to the back and forth posting and flaming, the thread is being closed.

MOD HAT OFF​