Why Are Masks Triggering Conflict and Rage?

[durangodawood]

...That is the rights point. A mask is a virtue signal, and has no other use whatever. The left is simply addicted to virtue signaling.

Can you back this up with a scientifically credible cite?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Can you back this up with a scientifically credible cite?

Can you cite actual proof (via RL peer reviewed studies) that show a piece of cloth over your mouth can prevent you from contracting an airborne virus? Or from spreading the same?

Look at any label on face masks, NONE that aren't n-95 (coupled with safety goggles) are allowed to claim any health benefit whatsoever because there is none.

It's virtue signaling... something the left is good at but they are often little more than the worst of hypocrites when it gets into the nitty gritty.

I rather distrust those who stand in the streets screaming look at me, I'm virtuous! If anyone has to go that far to prove their virtue I'd say it's little more than false advertising as some 60 million infants can rightly testify to.

 

[durangodawood]

Can you cite actual proof (via RL peer reviewed studies) that show a piece of cloth over your mouth can prevent you from contracting an airborne virus? Or from spreading the same?

Look at any label on face masks, NONE that aren't n-95 (coupled with safety goggles) are allowed to claim any health benefit whatsoever because there is none.

It's virtue signaling... something the left is good at but they are often little more than the worst of hypocrites when it gets into the nitty gritty.

I rather distrust those who stand in the streets screaming look at me, I'm virtuous! If anyone has to go that far to prove their virtue I'd say it's little more than false advertising.

I was just asking for credible backup for your very strong claim. But all you have are your own easily countered and dubious "common sense" assertions.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I am not against mask wearing. At all.

I am simply arguing that we’re seeing a level of panic here with this virus that is unprecedented, and seems to be not fully necessary.

The fear is that we are now almost six months into this and we are further away from handling this than we were in April. Things are getting worse in this country rather than better. Some individual places are doing better such as New York and Seattle but this disease is a lot more spread out now and there is a lack of national will to end this pandemic. There is a large portion of the population who will not participate in working together to help their fellow man. It isn’t some much panic as a foreboding fear. I’m already mentally preparing for a holiday season without family gatherings because at this moment, I don’t see how it will be possible. This isn’t going to get better. It’s just not. And as long as we treat people who refuse to do a small sacrifice to help take care of this pandemic, it never will.

 

[jollybear]

It ends at a reasonable place, where costs and benefits are pretty well balanced.

No, by this logic, if we could prevent a million deaths from auto accidents every year by doing something simple, cheap, and not very onerous, we should do so. Which is in fact what we've done. We've installed traffic lights stop signs and punished people for ignoring them; we've mandated seatbelts and their use and airbags and other safety features; we infringe on everyone's freedom by insisting they drive on the same side of the road as everyone else; we make people pass a driving test before letting them on the road. Wearing a mask for a year when you're in a crowd seems like a pretty minimal imposition compared to some of these. (By the way, millions don't die from auto accidents per year -- it's 30-some thousand in the US and 1.3 million in the world.)

And despite the rules of the road, millions of accidents still happen. Accidents can happen even when the rules are obeyed too.

And here's where I got millions

Average number of car accidents in the . U.S. every year is 6 million. More than 90 people die in car accidents everyday. 3 million people in the U.S. are injured every year in car accidents.

Driver Knowledge › car-accident-sta...
Car Accident Statistics in the U.S. | Driver Knowledge

With masks, they dont work perfectly. So there should be a all or nothing approuch to this. Freedom is more important then our safety.

"He who gives up liberty for a little safety and security deserves neither liberty or safety."

 

[Hazelelponi]

I was just asking for credible backup for your very strong claim. But all you have are your own easily countered and dubious "common sense" assertions.

False advertising is illegal in this country, now go look for cloth face masks making proven medical claims...

I don't need a study... you can't find any that are legally allowed to advertise any health benefit in the protection of the virus.

So again, virtue signaling.

Now. There is a difference between a 50, 60, 70, 80 y/o individual who's lived a full life dying of natural causes, and infants being slaughtered in the millions before they get the opportunity to live.... there's your pandemic that needs fixed.

But I have no need to stand in the street screaming look at me, how virtuous am I ... but then, I don't sit around advocating slaughter either. All I advocate for is life lived, normally.

 

[jollybear]

Because with the virus it's literally everyones walking around with guns, some may go off randomly and have a chance to kill people, maybe you should put your guns on saftey, sure the saftey malfunctions once in a while, but having some chance the saftey will work is better then it never on. Covid is only just starting and over 1k people were dying last week a day, 900-1000 of which were probably easily preventable if people wore masks, and were not out having parties. The economy will be killed because people wanted to save the economy.

Ok. How do we balance freedom and safety?

Here's how. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Those who want to take the risk,they can have the freedom to do so. If they get sick,they then take personal responsibility.

Those that don't want to take the risk, THEY can restrict there OWN freedom by wearing a mask AND GOGGLES and gloves and socially distance and or stay at home and leave the rest of us alone.

Whats wrong with that common sense approach?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Ok. How do we balance freedom and safety?

Here's how. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Those who want to take the risk,they can have the freedom to do so. If they get sick,they then take personal responsibility.

Those that don't want to take the risk, THEY can restrict there OWN freedom by wearing a mask AND GOGGLES and gloves and socially distance and or stay at home and leave the rest of us alone.

Whats wrong with that common sense approach?

What's wrong with that approach is that not everybody has the degree of flexibility you're suggesting; and the risks are not borne solely by the person choosing to bear them.

Some folks are considered essential workers and don't have the option to stay at home at length. In some areas, delivery options are limited. Severe illnesses cause costs to be incurred by the rest of society through things like increased insurance payouts, increased government medical assistance, increased demand for medical services, reduced supply of PPE, and reduced workplace productivity.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Ok. How do we balance freedom and safety?

Here's how. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Those who want to take the risk,they can have the freedom to do so. If they get sick,they then take personal responsibility.

Those that don't want to take the risk, THEY can restrict there OWN freedom by wearing a mask AND GOGGLES and gloves and socially distance and or stay at home and leave the rest of us alone.

Whats wrong with that common sense approach?

Because this is a contagious disease and no one is an island. Every single person is capable of carrying this disease and spread it to others. Your plan has people not taking any precautions and spreading it to other people.

You don’t get freedoms without responsibilities and right now your responsibility is to wear a mask, socially distance, wash your hands, and stay home if possible.

There have been times where the government asked us to forgo our freedoms for the good of the country. We made people leave their lives to fight wars for this country. Rationed gas, meat, rubber etc. so our military could obtain those supplies easier. Lincoln suspended the writ of habeus corpus in Maryland so Washington DC didn’t get surrounded by Confederate territory. Now the government is asking for you to do extremely simple things compared to those times. It is your responsibility to do it.

 

[durangodawood]

False advertising is illegal in this country, now go look for cloth face masks making proven medical claims...

I don't need a study... you can't find any that are legally allowed to advertise any health benefit in the protection of the virus.

So again, virtue signaling.

Now. There is a difference between a 50, 60, 70, 80 y/o individual who's lived a full life dying of natural causes, and infants being slaughtered in the millions before they get the opportunity to live.... there's your pandemic that needs fixed.

But I have no need to stand in the street screaming look at me, how virtuous am I ... but then, I don't sit around advocating slaughter either. All I advocate for is life lived, normally.

Whats all this about the left virtue signaling? We have every politician and public health official left and right saying wear a darn mask. Even the ones who wont mandate it still say you should wear one.

 

[KCfromNC]

I am simply arguing that we’re seeing a level of panic here with this virus that is unprecedented, and seems to be not fully necessary.

"We" are seeing panic? Where?

 

[KCfromNC]

First, the mask prevents nothing.. nothing at all...

Citation needed.

 

[loveofourlord]

I disagree...

First, the mask prevents nothing.. nothing at all... you won't buy a mask that is even allowed to claim it will reduce your chances of anything at all, because you can't tell an outright lie when selling a product, nor can you make unproven medical claims.

That is the rights point. A mask is a virtue signal, and has no other use whatever. The left is simply addicted to virtue signaling.

And for me, it's more than inconvenient to pass out while grocery shopping and then have to be carted off via ambulance to the local ER....

Masks reduce your chances of dying PERIOD no if and or buts, even your best evidence you've shown show they work at a lower chance, but lower chance is better then no chance, plus they reduce distance and spread but yeah keep calling us liars while you kill thousands a day.

 

[loveofourlord]

Ok. How do we balance freedom and safety?

Here's how. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Those who want to take the risk,they can have the freedom to do so. If they get sick,they then take personal responsibility.

Those that don't want to take the risk, THEY can restrict there OWN freedom by wearing a mask AND GOGGLES and gloves and socially distance and or stay at home and leave the rest of us alone.

Whats wrong with that common sense approach?

Because thats not what happens, your really that dense arn't you, places like texas nearly got overwhelmed, and all those people whining about their freedoms like children still went to the hospital and took up resources. This is a pandemic killing over 1k people a day 5 + days a week, what makes you think we should do anything but consider people that don't wear masks as selfish dregs of humanity. The right has lost all right to claim to be pro life, it's just pro fetus and once born you could care less if they all die.

 

[KCfromNC]

Those who want to take the risk,they can have the freedom to do so. If they get sick,they then take personal responsibility.

What kind of personal responsibility will people who get other people sick have to take in this situation? Are they offering to pay for the medical treatment and time lost from work of their victims?

Kinda like a "but it is my choice to drive drunk and I'll take responsibility if I hurt myself" approach, this plan doesn't seem particularly well thought through w.r.t. the actual consequences of acting on this personal "freedom" to put others at risk.

 

[loveofourlord]

This event reveals to me that they are perhaps closer than I thought.

Now I see "the right" really is ready to let others die to avoid a temporary inconvenience. I used to buy that they were generally "pro life".

well maybe it's time to bring in that mask exemption card for real, they sign up to be exempt from masks, and they forfeit all rights to medical care or anything related to their covid, and if proven they infect someone they pay all their bills.

 

[sfs]

First, the mask prevents nothing.. nothing at all...

There's quite a bit of evidence at this point that your statement is simply wrong. This makes everything else you say on the subject pointless.

 

[sfs]

And despite the rules of the road, millions of accidents still happen. Accidents can happen even when the rules are obeyed too.

Sure. But I remember what it was like before some of these rules were passed, when the death rate was much higher. I think that's an improvement. You don't. Or maybe you do -- you haven't offered any kind of explanation for what safety regulations are acceptable and what aren't. All I've learned that a piece of cloth on your face is a really big curtailment of your liberty. Are you able to state a reason that this regulation is so much worse than all of the others you accept?

In that vein, I note that you didn't answer my question: do you go around naked in the summer because freedom is more important than imposed modesty? Do you approve of others going naked?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

1) Some of them were protesting other regulations and mandates.
2) The stay-at-home orders caused many people who would otherwise be working (and during the springtime, planting) to not be doing what they would normally do. That's going to frustrate people. The initial protests were about that, and the mask orders came in, and so all of that frustration about not being able to work and plant was able to crystalize under the symbol of people wearing masks.
3) The American people were told initially that masks were no good out of fear that hospital workers wouldn't have enough masks. While there is such a thing as a "noble lie" it was still a lie, and people remember that and have less trust than they already had in "authoritative" sources since the authority lied.
4) The movement is bottom up, not top down. In Michigan, where much of this started, there was a newly elected Democrat governor who would not be up for re-election in 2020 because her four-year term started at the beginning of 2019. So this is a governor with plenty of time left in her term with no one running against her yet. And the protests began because her policies in response to the pandemic seemed to be more severe than many people believed was warranted. They angered enough people throughout the state to come to one place, the state capitol, and protest when the objective of those orders was to keep people at home and distanced. She issued orders that made people with a lot more free time than they usually had, upset.

This helps explain how it is different with all the Covid measures. Still, I can't relate to people who obey laws all their lives and then take on the mentality (and cling to it) that if they don't like laws they should break them. There is an underlying mindset that is being fed by indoctriation of rebellion. The Word of God says that rebellion is the sin of witchcraft so I'm surprised at how many professing Christians can go along with that mindset.

I Samuel 15
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

 

[durangodawood]

....In that vein, I note that you didn't answer my question: do you go around naked in the summer because freedom is more important than imposed modesty? Do you approve of others going naked?

Wearing clothes is just virtue signalling by the right.