Why are Catholics and Orthodox treated differently by protestants?

[Gregory95]

So ignore archeologist discovers and instead Constantine followers I will look into what you said however I hope my skepticism is understandable

As to look at history written by ones supporters differs then true history at times

Not comparing the men but rather to give you a example so take no offense please

Those who supported Hitler would of wrote quite different in history books then those who didn't

Christians who knew him wrote his biography. I think they would know, and they affirm his Christianity...

Eusebius' history would be a good place to start.

not sure about what teachers have to do with this, but St Paul calls himself father.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So ignore archeologist discovers and instead Constantine followers I will look into what you said however I hope my skepticism is understandable

As to look at history written by ones supporters differs then true history at times

Not comparing the men but rather to give you a example so take no offense please

Those who supported Hitler would of wrote quite different in history books then those who didn't

not all were his followers. and while yes, had Hitler won the Nazis would have told a different story, but there would still be others from that time as well.

do you have any written evidence from that time to support what you are saying?

 

[FenderTL5]

My phone don't show me these things I have a old phone all I seen was the OP I did not see this is orthodox section so thank you for telling me this NOW I know

Fair enough. You are not the first and not likely the last to have that happen.

Second to call me protestant would be like me calling you catholic WHICH NOW I know you are not and I have enough respect to not call you what you say you are not would be nice to receive the same level of respect

Maybe you could be kind enough to share your faith community with us, so that we can correct a mistake.
When I see "Christian" in your profile coupled with protestant polemics against the Catholics, my tendency is to see "Christian" to mean one of the thousands of protestant variations, most notably the "Christian Church" which is a part of the Restoration Movement of churches. It's a thing... in fact in my city a pretty big thing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and, the link you shared is pretty intellectually weak. everyone who has cracked open a Church history book knows that Christians would baptize the culture. so of course early in imagery would have borrowed from that artistic style. the same thing happened whenever Christians encountered any new culture.

to use that as evidence that St Constantine was a secret pagan is pretty dumb.

 

[straykat]

I deny not there is true believers in catholic church my issue is with the institution of the catholic church

If what you say is true then that means the pope was wrong

How is this when the catholic church at least USED to say the pope was infallible

Papal infallibility wasn't a dogma until the 1800s, I think (at least not officially). That's why they had a whole other split back then, who call themselves the "Old Catholics".

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

I think you are giving people to much credit. They are basing their judgments on gut hunches based on how people look etc. From that stand point Orthodoxy looks very scary. It's churches and ministers look very much different than evangelical church's and ministers.

Decades ago, I was an example of that. There was an Orthodox girl I was interested in, so I decided to check out the most available Orthodox Church "to try it out to see if I could stomach it". The Church I dropped was saint Peter And Paul of Ben Lomond the head quarters of Concilliar Press etc. I was greatly blown away by the service, but my expectations were extremely low. I initially was planning on staying as far back as I could, so I could slip out the door if things got too weird with all the icons etc. But as a Non-denominational Charismatic I had a similar experience as Saint Vladmir's envoys where I witnessed the heavenly quality of the Divine Liturgy.

Anyway, on most things I considered myself very open minded, but I was not so on that issue. But many folks from what I can tell are often less open minded than I am on many issues, believing that there initial perceptions or preconceived notions are the truth.


Besides this the image and symbol of the Pharisees is something that is often greatly on the mind of evangelicals, as an archetype of everything that is wrong with religion etc. Many people have trouble appreciating things like Liturgy, ritual and sacraments. It is something that is alien to them unless these things are properly explained (which is rare). Unfortunately, Orthodoxy on the surface can look like some weird form of Phariseeism or Sadducee-ism

 

[straykat]

Besides this the image and symbol of the Pharisees is something that is often greatly on the mind of evangelicals. Many people have trouble appreciating things like Liturgy, ritual and sacraments. It is something that is alien to them unless these things are properly explained (which is rare). Unfortunately, Orthodoxy on the surface can look like some weird form of Phariseeism or Sadducee-ism

Well, that's sad if true. Biblical Israel had liturgical worship. It's not like the Levitical rite was "winging it". It's where the Church got it's own forms originally.

Or if we look in Revelation, the heavenly depiction of the apocalypse has a liturgical form to it as well.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Well, that's sad if true. Biblical Israel had liturgical worship. It's not like the Levitical rite was "winging it". It's where the Church got it's own forms originally.

Or if we look in Revelation, the heavenly depiction of the apocalypse has a liturgical form to it as well.

Yes I preach that sort of thing now, but that's not how I thought prior to the summer of 1997. The bulk of Protestantism, especially the part that is actively growing is the non liturgical, non sacramental side. And they tend to see the stuff with Israel as relegated to the past, "While they possess A New Wine skin" and worship "in Spirit and Truth".

 

[All4Christ]

Were my last two posts acceptable or should I just tell them to PM me?

If you want to debate the topic, it’d be best to either create a topic in St Justin Martyr’s about it or PM.

If you just want to ask questions about why we believe something or what we believe, then this is fine (although it is a different topic than the thread).

Does that make sense?

 

[Gregory95]

Constantine

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...FjACegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2O50Q5ZqOqoFeUORk5D8Yi

Based off of information advalable even information from those with your point of view

it shows at best I cannot say he was or was not Christian

it seems he truly comes off as he wanted to be Christian and in that I can not say he wasn't

I errored in stating he wasn't

however his actions albeit some did good for Christians in his kingdom

he did allow his coins and statues dedicated to him contain images that the Christian and sun god worshippers both pointed to and said I see my God in this


He did execute his own son and I believe it said sister and another family member after his said conversion


also it should be noted he willed for a state church

which could be said he laid the foundation for the institution of the catholic church

It seems its up to ones opinion on wether this was good or not

I take the new position I do not know if he was or not

All one can do is look at everything he did and point out

He did probably more good then any Roman emperor before him

He laid the groundwork for the state church

One must take these as they are

Some believe a state church has lead to where Christianity is today wether you believe its good or bad one must look at what he helped create and make their own conclusion

What is important above all is this is faith in Christ

May we be lead by the Holy Spirit and not the will of the flesh

I again apologize not only did I error is stating I knew what he believed

I upset those who have faith in Christ in my error

For this I truly am sorry my friends

not all were his followers. and while yes, had Hitler won the Nazis would have told a different story, but there would still be others from that time as well.

do you have any written evidence from that time to support what you are saying?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Constantine

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...FjACegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2O50Q5ZqOqoFeUORk5D8Yi

Based off of information advalable even information from those with your point of view

it shows at best I cannot say he was or was not Christian

it seems he truly comes off as he wanted to be Christian and in that I can not say he wasn't

I errored in stating he wasn't

however his actions albeit some did good for Christians in his kingdom

he did allow his coins and statues dedicated to him contain images that the Christian and sun god worshippers both pointed to and said I see my God in this


He did execute his own son and I believe it said sister and another family member after his said conversion


also it should be noted he willed for a state church

which could be said he laid the foundation for the institution of the catholic church

It seems its up to ones opinion on wether this was good or not

I take the new position I do not know if he was or not

All one can do is look at everything he did and point out

He did probably more good then any Roman emperor before him

He laid the groundwork for the state church

One must take these as they are

Some believe a state church has lead to where Christianity is today wether you believe its good or bad one must look at what he helped create and make their own conclusion

What is important above all is this is faith in Christ

May we be lead by the Holy Spirit and not the will of the flesh

I again apologize not only did I error is stating I knew what he believed

I upset those who have faith in Christ in my error

For this I truly am sorry my friends

nothing to apologize for. some of the greatest saints also struggled against a lot of sins as well. no one disputes he did sinful acts. but he didn't lay the foundation of the modern papacy. that happened later.

 

[Gregory95]

nothing to apologize for. some of the greatest saints also struggled against a lot of sins as well. no one disputes he did sinful acts. but he didn't lay the foundation of the modern papacy. that happened later.

Agreed and everything I found suggested what he started later became the catholic church ?

 

[straykat]

Agreed and everything I found suggested what he started later became the catholic church ?

No. It wasn't until almost a thousand years that the Catholic church became similar to what you may know it as. And barely even that.

His main contribution was that he realized that Christians must cease being persecuted, but once he started befriending Christians, he realized they were also embroiled in a dispute of their own. The priest Arius had recently just popped up, teaching a new doctrine that Jesus was more created being than divine, and was against the Trinity. This was about to tear the church apart. Constantine, being a new believer, knew nothing of the details, but could see it wasn't a good situation. So he called all of the bishops of the day to convene and settle the matter. All he did was call a Council. That's hardly a "pope". He didn't even have very strong views about it. He just wanted them to settle this dispute and stop fighting. And he barely accomplished this. He didn't create some "one world religion" or unify much of anything. His own son turned out to be more Arian friendly, and undid a lot of his father's work. It took hundreds of years and a lot of see-sawing in church leadership until we finally got a lot of important matters settled on scripture canon, the nature of Christ, Trinity, etc..

All this guy did was help people stop getting killed, and thought the church's infighting was unseemly. He lent his power to put an end to some of it. That's it! All in all, it's actually pretty boring, and not the big conspiracy-fest that it's in B-quality Evangelical documentaries like "Wheat and Tares".

 

[ArmyMatt]

Agreed and everything I found suggested what he started later became the catholic church ?

no, he didn't start anything. the bishop of Rome was around for nearly 300 years prior to St Constantine.

 

[straykat]

no, he didn't start anything. the bishop of Rome was around for nearly 300 years prior to St Constantine.

I'm afraid you're going to confuse him. Just mentioning the bishop of Rome circa 400 AD will make him think "Pope" again...even though he was far from that too.

edit: I mean, the good men of that office were hardly authoritarian, as they later became associated with.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm afraid you're going to confuse him. Just mentioning the bishop of Rome circa 400 AD will make him think "Pope" again...even though he was far from that too.

edit: I mean, the good men of that office were hardly authoritarian, as they later became associated with.

correct, you don't see the modern papacy til long after St Constantine.

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

So basically we look weird, therefore we're evil.

Liturgy

• PlatinumTrophies
• Feb 22, 2019
• 2

 

[ArmyMatt]

So basically we look weird, therefore we're evil.

Liturgy

• PlatinumTrophies
• Feb 22, 2019
• 2

for many (unfortunately) yes. I remember as a kid being looked at weird by some of my Protestant friends because I was Episcopalian, because of the ritual and how Roman Catholic we looked.

 

[Gregory95]

Fair enough. You are not the first and not likely the last to have that happen.


Maybe you could be kind enough to share your faith community with us, so that we can correct a mistake.
When I see "Christian" in your profile coupled with protestant polemics against the Catholics, my tendency is to see "Christian" to mean one of the thousands of protestant variations, most notably the "Christian Church" which is a part of the Restoration Movement of churches. It's a thing... in fact in my city a pretty big thing.

Gladly my friend

I believe the Word of God was made flesh and sent to earth

He told us important information that set things straight

He laid down His life for us He took our punishment

To believe in Christ is to be born again

One can not see the kingdom of God unless they are born again

We are all sinners and deserve hell but God is the most merciful indeed

i believe baptism should be a decision made by the person and shouldn't be made for them as in infant baptism

I believe the Bible as the inspired Word of God

Christ is litteraly the Word of God thus His Word is completely true

You can not get to heaven by works

Faith leads you to do good works

We should NOT practice circumcision as Paul who was Saul pointed out we are not under the law rather by being in Christ we astabish the law and need not flesh circumcision

There is one God

The one God sent first His Word then at the Word acceding to heaven and sitting at the right hand of God

God sent His Spirit (Holy Ghost) to be the Comforter for believers

To be persecuted or/and killed for Christs sake would be a honour

No need to fear death for this world is evil and in heaven is no evil why would anyone want to stay on earth longer then they have to

Christ told us to share the good news of the Gospel and it is our duty to do so

Christ is the head of the true church which is all true believers

Do not fear rebuke rather encurage it for its better to find out you error and get in line with truth then be in error

There is no way to heaven except through Christ

I hold that we are to love one another as Christ loves us

To be a leader one must be a servant the more you wish to lead the more of a servant you must be

Christ is to be loved above all including ones self and ones physical family

Mans traditions mean nothing To me because God is Spirit and God is to be worshipped in Spirit

I don't believe Christians should be political due to the fact we are just pilgrums on earth heading to our home in heaven so the politics of earth I see no point in

 

[Gregory95]

and, the link you shared is pretty intellectually weak. everyone who has cracked open a Church history book knows that Christians would baptize the culture. so of course early in imagery would have borrowed from that artistic style. the same thing happened whenever Christians encountered any new culture.

to use that as evidence that St Constantine was a secret pagan is pretty dumb.

When I say things many believe im being a jerk


I'm not trying to come off this way I'm speaking to my understanding and hoping if I error someone would be kind enough to correct me


Also you must understand before you mentioned the book that references Constantine I never knew of this as I stated before i know baccicly nothing on orthodox and when you didn't immediately counter my link with your information I had nothing to go on but what I already thought I knew I believe discussion should go like this

one person provides their information if the other disagrees they provided theirs and from this the truth can be known

otherwise the one in error is lost in their error until the new information is provided


I am on here to seek the truth nothing more I have no imagination that I know everything nor am above error

I can not know what I don't know without being shown what I don't know