Why are Catholics and Orthodox treated differently by protestants?

[Sparagmos]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

I don’t know about orthodoxy but my evangelical parents used to tell me that Catholics were especially bad because they worshipped Mary and prayed to Mary and the saints. So they saw it as idolatry. But they also seemed to think Presbyterians and Methodists were going to hell. Frankly, I think it is just a form of bigotry.

 

[Gregory95]

If none wish to keep speaking with me then I leave you all with this

May we all be guided by the Holy Spirit and not the will of man or our flesh

 

[ArmyMatt]

If none wish to keep speaking with me then I leave you all with this

May we all be guided by the Holy Spirit and not the will of man or our flesh

I think you are fine to keep posting on here

 

[Gregory95]

I think you are fine to keep posting on here

Can you help me with post 88 94 and 95 please

 

[Silverback]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

Due to politics, warfare, geography, and ignorance, the early Protestant Reformers had less contact with the Orthodox, they certainly knew they were around, however, the Catholic church was the big player in the west.

Some years into the reformation, the lutherans approached the Patriarch of Constantinople through correspondence, and there was a very respectful exchange of opinions.

In the end, there was no consensus, it was the Sola's (among other things) which differed from the theology of the Eastern Church, that in many ways differs from that of the Catholic Church as well.

Additionally, the Western Church try's to define every little concept, idea, and intention, the Eastern Church accepts many things as simply a mystery.

One thing both the Protestant's, and the Orthodox agreed on was there dislike of the Papacy (albeit for different reasons...mostly anyway) which probably led to less animosity toward the Eastern Church.

Personally, I don't have Romaphobia, and having been posted to Greece during my career in the Navy I have deep respect for the Orthodox as well. Something many people would find confusing coming from a Lutheran.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

Well personally I believe the doctrine of purgatory is probably the most dangerous teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. The thing that worries me about it is it teaches that Jesus’ sacrifice doesn’t pay for all our sins and we must pay for remaining sins in the afterlife by suffering in purgatory. So it teaches people not to fully rely on Christ for the atonement of sin. As far as the Orthodox Church I have a great deal of respect for them. I believe they have kept their core teachings intact since the apostles began the church.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, that way of using the word "faith" to mean not only belief, but also following/doing. It's very interesting, almost mystical to me. For me, there is belief, and then there is action, and yes the 2 are deeply connected, as I learn in John chapter 15. (or perhaps in Matthew 7:24-27 also, that connected quality) But it's ok to use the word possibly as some unified whole so long as the believing part is strong. I wonder if I understood (switching topics) my very close Catholic friend who was late one evening after more than an hour of talking I suddenly realized not meaning "belief" when he said "faith" but seemed as if he meant instead the entire whole of the Catholic way (trying to find wording and also guessing, since it seemed still somewhat unknown), but I wonder if he might have meant something closer instead to your combined faith/action.

The Greek words for faith, believe, and believer all imply a certain level of action as well as believing and trusting in their definition.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Can you help me with post 88 94 and 95 please

what are your issues with those posts?

 

[Kaon]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

For me, it is the institution itself. I am not a protestant, but I do "protest" against the idea that other humans should be able to choose, teach and dictate what is profitable for one's unique relationship with their Father. You can't teach, or instruct someone on how to have a relationship with their Parents.

A standard is... standard: a set of tenants that indisputably represents the basis of expectation from the Most High God Himself. However, that standard breaks down with an exponential relationship to the degree of separation. Not all of the denominations believe we should be following all of the laws one would call the Law of God, for example.

 

[Gregory95]

what are your issues with those posts?

Well on what he said about needing a human to guide us in the Bible then he gave the account of Acts but as I stated in my post after the Ethiopian knew what it was saying and asked Phillip if Isaiah was speaking of himself or another

Then about the Word of God didn't tell us all we NEEDED to know

Then my post in response

 

[FireDragon76]

Well, it has to do with core differences. Baptists and Lutherans hold to the same core beliefs about how someone is saved (for the most part)

This is a very misleading statement. Lutherans are actually closer to Catholics and Orthodox, than to Baptists, in terms of what our religion looks like practically. Which is why we baptize infants and believe that Christ is truly and bodily present at the altar.

Most Americans know very little about Eastern Orthodoxy. Just like most Americans know very little about Lutheranism. Both are historically ethnic churches and both exist today in similar numbers, with perhaps the Orthodox being somewhat smaller. But generally both exist on the periphery of American religious life.

The same is not true of Catholicism, which has a prominent, if often uneasy, place in American culture, and millions of adherents (it's the largest single Christian body in America), as well as a long history of anti-Catholicism among many American Protestants.

 

[Kaon]

Well on what he said about needing a human to guide us in the Bible then he gave the account of Acts but as I stated in my post after the Ethiopian knew what it was saying and asked Phillip if Isaiah was speaking of himself or another

Then about the Word of God didn't tell us all we NEEDED to know

Then my post in response

I agree with you up to a point.

When I said what I said, I meant every word. However, I did not mean to imply that no human help is the way to go. We are brothers and sisters in the Redeemer; we need each other just like human siblings need each other (especially if we think we made our Parent upset.) Brothers/Sisters reassure, love, teach with patience, and strive with their relatives. This is, indeed, the tone of the Gospels, and the books of the prophets.

However, the Most High God promised us a New Covenant/Contract that will put the Word of God Himself on our "inward places" - in our heart and our minds - so that we won't even have to ask our neighbor/brother anything about the Most High God. This should make sense; what "brother or sister" needs their sibling to teach them about the personality and expectations - the love - of their parent? The child should already know, indeed, the Most High God poured out His spirit so that we can develop our unique relationship with Him.

Thus, when another "brother" comes to us and tells us, "this is the way to please Father," we should find this superfluous considering 1) your brother's relationship with Father is unique, 2) you shouldn't need your brother to tell you how to please your Father, and 3) you would do much better to converse with your Father about what He wants rather than go by what your brother or sister has told you - which could also be in error! I think it has been somewhat of a disservice to convince people that human authorities are authorities indeed. All of us are dead; it is by the Grace of the Most High God that He allows us His Holy Spirit to comfort us while we wait on the day for Him to come and Redeem us.

If any of you are parents, you may know how difficult it can be to want your child to just come to you about important things without forcing them to come to you. Even more, it can be painful when the child goes to everyone else except for you (the parent) to understand what you expect of the child. When the child finally relents after realizing some things, the parent is eager and ready to pour out all things to the child. This is something like the Most High God. We keep choosing humans to intimately trust with our relationship with our Father when we should be going straight to Him. The sacrifice of the Redeemer allows us to boldly approach the Throne should we choose to! He is literally waiting for us to come to Him.

 

[Gregory95]

I agree with you up to a point.

When I said what I said, I meant every word. However, I did not mean to imply that no human help is the way to go. We are brothers and sisters in the Redeemer; we need each other just like human siblings need each other (especially if we think we made our Parent upset.) Brothers/Sisters reassure, love, teach with patience, and strive with their relatives. This is, indeed, the tone of the Gospels, and the books of the prophets.

However, the Most High God promised us a New Covenant/Contract that will put the Word of God Himself on our "inward places" - in our heart and our minds - so that we won't even have to ask our neighbor/brother anything about the Most High God. This should make sense; what "brother or sister" needs their sibling to teach them about the personality and expectations - the love - of their parent? The child should already know, indeed, the Most High God poured out His spirit so that we can develop our unique relationship with Him.

Thus, when another "brother" comes to us and tells us, "this is the way to please Father," we should find this superfluous considering 1) your brother's relationship with Father is unique, 2) you shouldn't need your brother to tell you how to please your Father, and 3) you would do much better to converse with your Father about what He wants rather than go by what your brother or sister has told you - which could also be in error! I think it has been somewhat of a disservice to convince people that human authorities are authorities indeed. All of us are dead; it is by the Grace of the Most High God that He allows us His Holy Spirit to comfort us while we wait on the day for Him to come and Redeem us.

If any of you are parents, you may know how difficult it can be to want your child to just come to you about important things without forcing them to come to you. Even more, it can be painful when the child goes to everyone else except for you (the parent) to understand what you expect of the child. When the child finally relents after realizing some things, the parent is eager and ready to pour out all things to the child. This is something like the Most High God. We keep choosing humans to intimately trust with our relationship with our Father when we should be going straight to Him. The sacrifice of the Redeemer allows us to boldly approach the Throne should we choose to! He is literally waiting for us to come to Him.

No no friends I didn't mean NO human help I'm here right now and have asked for help more then once

I merely don't think a human should stand over your shoulder and give his understanding and everyone must obey it

I think most of the Bible is blaten and speaks for itself some may need help in somthingss but I don't think its REQUIREMENT to have a human tell you what the Bible says for it in most part speaks for itself

 

[BNR32FAN]

he who knows God

Dose he fear death and should war to protect his life

Or

Dose he happily die for Christs sake?

What about protecting his family? Self defense is supported in the scriptures.

 

[prodromos]

Would non-orthodox please refrain from giving non-orthodox answers in the Eastern Orthodox sub forum.
Please respect the rules of the Congregation sub forums.

 

[Gregory95]

What about protecting his family? Self defense is supported in the scriptures.

As the head of the household it is a mans duty to protect his family. Yes

I was speaking of being persucted for Christs sake

NT shows us time and time again its a honour to be persecuted or killed for Christs sake

 

[Gregory95]

Would non-orthodox please refrain from giving non-orthodox answers in the Eastern Orthodox sub forum.
Please respect the rules of the Congregation sub forums.

As for my original post I was anwser ing the OP as for after I errored on Constantine I simply am stating what I understand and trying to see if orthadox belief s line up and if not trying to see why for it is possible I error again and am seeking truth

 

[Kaon]

No no friends I didn't mean NO human help I'm here right now and have asked for help more then oncei
I merely don't think a human should stand over your shoulder and give his understanding and everyone must obey it

I think most of the Bible is blaten and speaks for itself some may need help in somthingss but I don't think its REQUIREMENT to have a human tell you what the Bible says for it in most part speaks for itself

Oh, I think I misunderstood your post.

 

[BNR32FAN]

As the head of the household it is a mans duty to protect his family. Yes

I was speaking of being persucted for Christs sake

NT shows us time and time again its a honour to be persecuted or killed for Christs sake

Personally if I’m persecuted I just walk away but if I’m attacked or my life is threatened I’ll defend myself.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Would non-orthodox please refrain from giving non-orthodox answers in the Eastern Orthodox sub forum.
Please respect the rules of the Congregation sub forums.

Sorry I didn’t see that. Please forgive me.