Why are Catholics and Orthodox treated differently by protestants?

[PlatinumTrophies]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

 

[straykat]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

I think Catholics definitely get the brunt of it..and so I sympathize. It's always the Jesuits at the center of conspiracies too, for some reason.

You're right about Orthodox being ignored. I've mused that it's the "13th Floor" of Christianity. Like something that people know exists, but strangely don't want to talk about it. Or maybe it's the Big Pink Elephant in the room. Same difference really.

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

I think Catholics definitely get the brunt of it..and so I sympathize. It's always the Jesuits at the center of conspiracies too, for some reason.

You're right about Orthodox being ignored. I've mused that it's the "13th Floor" of Christianity. Like something that people know exists, but strangely don't want to talk about it. Or maybe it's the Big Pink Elephant in the room. Same difference really.

I remember my mother told me Orthodox were 'Catholic without a Pope'. Most Americans probably think it's Russian Catholic or something.

 

[FenderTL5]

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

Replying as one who was raised in a very anti-Catholic/Baptist household, a mere opinion:
I tend to think that the significance the ancient churches hold toward Apostolic Succession and their sense of history is held in contempt by those who know they possess neither.
I agree that Orthodoxy is largely ignored altogether or lumped in as one and the same as the Latin Church. I knew nothing of Orthodoxy until I became an adult.

 

[tampasteve]

Many Protestants will point the the Orthodox and Catholic use of icons, which are very important to Orthodox worship. This alone in some Protestant minds will damn the believers as they misunderstand it and believe it to be idol worship. Add in prayers for the dead, praying to saints (especially Mary), confession to a Priest, etc. and it starts looking a lot like the Catholic church to many Protestants that do not know better, or choose not to know better.

 

[Halbhh]

Replying as one who was raised in a very anti-Catholic/Baptist household, a mere opinion:
I tend to think that the significance the ancient churches hold toward Apostolic Succession and their sense of history is held in contempt by those who know they posses neither.
I agree that Orthodoxy is largely ignored altogether or lumped in as one and the same as the Latin Church. I knew nothing of Orthodoxy until I became an adult.

My impression of Orthodox has been solely from CF, on which several seem usually well versed in scripture, a very positive impression. My only concern, having zero experience in an Orthodox church is just things that seem....out there....like kneeling and kissing the ring on some man (definitely not something I could do without it being sin, but that doesn't mean it's not having an totally different meaning to someone else). I also still have reservations about infant baptism, which is also practiced in the church we joined here locally (Lutheran, my first time in one and we continued) about 8 years ago, though I've accepted the idea that in 'confirmation' they are confirming their baptism. So, on the whole, my little-informed impression of Orthodox is pretty positive. I know it's wrong to call any man on Earth "Holy Father" -- we have one Father, and He is in Heaven -- but I don't assume the Orthodox do so.

But see, to me, there will never be any church that doesn't have mistakes/wrongs in it.

Because it's comprised of men.

And that's pretty much a 100% certainty.

So, when I see a mistake/error, it does not create a bad impression.

Instead, I'm very much more concerned whether the people are doing "Love one another" or failing to (which is fatal, on the individual level).

So, while I have some significant disagreements with the Catholic church for instance, I do not conclude anything remotely bad about it from those. Instead, case by case, I would want to know whether a local congregation does "Love one another". If they do, then I can know they are His, regardless of whatever errors are naturally present.

I'm delighted to report, first hand, that Catholics here where I live, and there are very many, predominate -- are loving.

They are. Praise God.

 

[straykat]

Many Protestants will point the the Orthodox and Catholic use of icons, which are very important to Orthodox worship. This alone in some Protestant minds will damn the believers as they misunderstand it and believe it to be idol worship. Add in prayers for the dead, praying to saints (especially Mary), confession to a Priest, etc. and it starts looking a lot like the Catholic church to many Protestants that do not know better, or choose not to know better.

Orthodox state that icons are permitted, because Christ is the icon of the Father. To us, it's strange to argue from Mosaic law, when there's a clear example of God making himself known to all, in the physical/material/visual reality, in the Incarnation.

Praying to saints is not "prayer" so much as intercession. No different than asking a respected fellow Christian or pastor to pray for you. Only Orthodox don't differentiate between heaven and earth. As the Nicene creed states, there's only ONE, holy, catholic, apostolic church. Secondly, I think the Protestant proclivity (not Lutherans though) to drop a lot of sacramental life made them fall back on reverence and prayer as the only means to worship God. So they equate these only with being fitting to God. When in the past, it was not so - reverence was accorded to many, but sacraments are only for God. But when you take out the importance of sacraments, God became the exclusive attention of the others as well.

 

[Jonaitis]

Well, it has to do with core differences. Baptists and Lutherans hold to the same core beliefs about how someone is saved (for the most part), whereas Roman Catholic dogma would teach what is clearly anathema in Protestant churches (for an example, justification isn't an legal act of imputing grace).

Also, if I am not wrong, it isn't just Protestants who call out, the Roman Catholic faith does this same thing toward those outside the Church. For an example, we read:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema," (Canon 9, Council of Trent).

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema," (Canon 14, Council of Trent).

The Orthodox is not as "legal" about their theology, and many Protestants somewhat sympathize ironically. But, clearly it is also indifferent toward Protestant core beliefs.

 

[tampasteve]

Orthodox state that icons are permitted, because Christ is the icon of the Father. To us, it's strange to argue from Mosaic law, when there's a clear example of God making himself known to all, in the physical/material/visual reality, in the Incarnation.

Praying to saints is not "prayer" so much as intercession. No different than asking a respected fellow Christian or pastor to pray for you. Only Orthodox don't differentiate between heaven and earth. As the Nicene creed states, there's only ONE, holy, catholic, apostolic church.

Oh, I know - I have read much on Orthodox beliefs and was Catholic for a little over 10 years in my 20s and 30s.

Secondly, I think the Protestant proclivity (not Lutherans though) to drop a lot of sacramental life made them fall back on reverence and prayer as the only means to worship God. So they equate these only with being fitting to God. When in the past, it was not so - reverence was accorded to many, but sacraments are only for God. But when you take out the importance of sacraments, God became the exclusive attention of the others as well.

I agree with this. Many Protestant churches drop Sacraments or Tradition but replace it with other traditions that are essentially the same, albeit with different understandings perhaps. One example would be dropping confession to a priest but replacing it with an "accountability partner" the underlying idea is different, but the external action is similar.

 

[Albion]

Many Protestant churches drop Sacraments or Tradition but replace it with other traditions that are essentially the same, albeit with different understandings perhaps.

Not merely a minor difference there!

 

[Halbhh]

Oh, I know - I have read much on Orthodox beliefs and was Catholic for a little over 10 years in my 20s and 30s.



I agree with this. Many Protestant churches drop Sacraments or Tradition but replace it with other traditions that are essentially the same, albeit with different understandings perhaps. One example would be dropping confession to a priest but replacing it with an "accountability partner" the underlying idea is different, but the external action is similar.

Did I tell you I've been in a lot of denominations? My mother moved us several times when I was young, and we'd go to whatever church was the closest to the house. Then later also, I explored by attending several more denominations. I think there are 8 denominations I've attended at least 3 full services or more in with attention and full participation, in very rough order of attendance Church of Christ (many hundreds of times in youth), Lutheran (hundreds), Pentecostal Church of God (what a trip!)(hundreds), Methodist (dozens?), Catholic (4-5 I think if you also count one first communion service), Episcopalian (8-10?), Baptist (3-4?), Quaker (just 3 times, but what a wonderful thing to sit together in silence!), a couple of times in some unknown high Church in Manhattan, (and though it doesn't count to me, even 2-3 times in a Unitarian church where it wasn't merely a secular lecture). But anyway, at least 8-9 denominations were it was enough to really get an impression (once isn't enough in my view).

So, what I said above isn't a theory see.

Not a theory. But experience.

 

[tampasteve]

Not merely a minor difference there!

It was one example, and I did not say it was a minor difference.

 

[Albion]

It was one example, and I did not say it was a minor difference.

No, you did not say that it was only a minor difference, but you did conflate Holy Tradition with mere custom, i.e. traditions. Incidentally, this point may be one of the main problem areas existing between the faiths that the OP was asking about.

 

[Halbhh]

Well, it has to do with core differences. Baptists and Lutherans hold to the same core beliefs about how someone is saved (for the most part), whereas Roman Catholic dogma would teach what is clearly anathema in Protestant churches (for an example, justification isn't an legal act of imputing grace).

Also, if I am not wrong, it isn't just Protestants who call out, the Roman Catholic faith does this same thing toward those outside the Church. For an example, we read:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema," (Canon 9, Council of Trent).

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema," (Canon 14, Council of Trent).

The Orthodox is not as "legal" about their theology, and many Protestants somewhat sympathize ironically. But, clearly it is also indifferent toward Protestant core beliefs.

Interesting, I noticed at least according to the lectures I watched from R. C. Sproul, Reformed (according to Sproul) in some sense definitely believe more than only faith alone is required at some point, for instance also repentance is required. As I recall, Sproul said that with some emphasis. Isn't Sproul correct? (Yes, I'm aware that justification is a step, and then sanctification a process, etc., but as we recall the wording in scripture is, as Sproul and we know, "repent and believe").

 

[FenderTL5]

Interesting, I noticed at least according to the lectures I watched from R. C. Sproul, Reformed (according to Sproul) in some sense definitely believe more than only faith alone is required at some point, for instance also repentance is required. As I recall, Sproul said that with some emphasis. Isn't Sproul correct? (Yes, I'm aware that justification is a step, and then sanctification a process, etc., but as we recall the wording in scripture is, as Sproul and we know, "repent and believe").

I suppose that would/could depend on what one considers to be faith.
Is "faith" merely a belief or firmly held notion? Something you "know."
Or is faith inclusive of the active, obedience of Christ's command to take up our cross and follow Him? That it is to say it's something you/we both know and do.

 

[Halbhh]

I suppose that would/could depend on what one considers to be faith.
Is "faith" merely a belief or firmly held notion? Something you "know."
Or is faith inclusive of the active, obedience of Christ command to take up our cross and follow Him? That it is to say it's something you both know and do.

Yes, that way of using the word "faith" to mean not only belief, but also following/doing. It's very interesting, almost mystical to me. For me, there is belief, and then there is action, and yes the 2 are deeply connected, as I learn in John chapter 15. (or perhaps in Matthew 7:24-27 also, that connected quality) But it's ok to use the word possibly as some unified whole so long as the believing part is strong. I wonder if I understood (switching topics) my very close Catholic friend who was late one evening after more than an hour of talking I suddenly realized not meaning "belief" when he said "faith" but seemed as if he meant instead the entire whole of the Catholic way (trying to find wording and also guessing, since it seemed still somewhat unknown), but I wonder if he might have meant something closer instead to your combined faith/action.

 

[Jonaitis]

Interesting, I noticed at least according to the lectures I watched from R. C. Sproul, Reformed (according to Sproul) in some sense definitely believe more than only faith alone is required at some point, for instance also repentance is required. As I recall, Sproul said that with some emphasis. Isn't Sproul correct? (Yes, I'm aware that justification is a step, and then sanctification a process, etc., but as we recall the wording in scripture is, as Sproul and we know, "repent and believe").

Repentance is necessary for salvation, every Protestant (and Reformed) group believes this. The word used in Scripture means to "change one's mind," and not necessarily a particular work. We must make a u-turn in order to place a saving faith in Christ, and good works proceed from that continual repentance (turning) from sin throughout our lives.

Easy-Believism is another belief you are probably confusing us with, and their view of Lordship. I consider that false.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think it's a lot of Romophobia. since we look like we are RC, there is an assumption of association there.

and could the non-Orthodox debate each other elsewhere?

 

[Gregory95]

I can only speak on catholics as I've never studied orthadox

I speak as a born again Christian NOT protestant or anything more then born again Christian

What I am about to say I say not to hurt any rather to answer the OP question

1 anyone who reviews the rule of Constantine knows he never left paganism merely he sprinkled Christ on it (this is why atheists who are history buffs laugh at those who say Constantine was Christian)

2 catholic as used in Bible stands for its original meaning which is universal it dose not pay homage to what is known as the catholic church today

3 the pope during the 3rd Reich called Hitler the "savior of Germany" (before I was saved I was a national socialist so I looked deep into catholicism since Hitler was catholic

4 the catholics call the pope Holy Father which is ONLY used in the Bibe as the title for GOD

5 catholic s call priests father Christ said call no man Father ( they interpreted this as call no man spiritual father this is what catholic s say to defend the tradition )

6 catholic church promotes praying to others then Christ namely Mary the Bible says there is only ONE mediator between man and God that is CHRIST

7 catholic s promote praying in vain repution such as the rosery the Bible says do not pray with vain repution for this is what the heathens do

There is more but this will suffice for now

I've never known a Baptist who believed all Lutherans and Pentecostals were going to Hell. I have known quite a few who believed Catholics and Orthodox were.

'End Times' conspiracy theorists on the Internet appear to be overwhelmingly protestant and usually believe the Antichrist or False Prophet will be the Pope. Orthodox are either completely ignored or regarded as being part of the same 'Church of Satan' or whatever they think will aid the Antichrist.

My Baptist family initially had zero respect for Orthodoxy. I was told I was 'playing with fire' by going to an Orthodox church. Less than 2 years later, they view it with roughly the same respect they hold for a typical non-denominational Bible Church.

I don't see anything in the Orthodox faith that would rule it out of the Body of Christ evangelicals believe in. Orthodox believe in the Trinity, that Christ is Risen, need for repenting of sins, abortion is murder, homosexuality is sinful, salvation cannot be bought, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Sure we disagree on a large number of details, but so do Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Reformed, and so on. In fact, Baptists alone disagree with other Baptists on a ton of issues. Exactly what belief are Orthodox and Catholics perceived to hold that makes us all damnable then?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I can only speak on catholics as I've never studied orthadox

I speak as a born again Christian NOT protestant or anything more then born again Christian

What I am about to say I say not to hurt any rather to answer the OP question

1 anyone who reviews the rule of Constantine knows he never left paganism merely he sprinkled Christ on it (this is why atheists who are history buffs laugh at those who say Constantine was Christian)

2 catholic as used in Bible stands for its original meaning which is universal it dose not pay homage to what is known as the catholic church today

3 the pope during the 3rd Reich called Hitler the "savior of Germany" (before I was saved I was a national socialist so I looked deep into catholicism since Hitler was catholic

4 the catholics call the pope Holy Father which is ONLY used in the Bibe as the title for GOD

5 catholic s call priests father Christ said call no man Father ( they interpreted this as call no man spiritual father this is what catholic s say to defend the tradition )

6 catholic church promotes praying to others then Christ namely Mary the Bible says there is only ONE mediator between man and God that is CHRIST

7 catholic s promote praying in vain repution such as the rosery the Bible says do not pray with vain repution for this is what the heathens do

There is more but this will suffice for now

what shred of evidence supports that St Constantine stayed pagan. please show anything from history that supports that.

if you have an issue calling priests Father, I suggest you read St Paul more closely.