Who was Jesus

[zoidar]

‘He that believes’, is a term that includes every believer.

The body of Christ is comprised of all believers.

I don't think you got my point. My point is you can't make "he that believes" into "the body of Christ" or "all believers". Jesus is saying "anyone" that believes in me will do the same and greater miracles than me. He is talking about the individual believer, even it's granted here that he means every single one that believes, that it's possible for everyone in the body of Christ.

To say Jesus is talking here about the body of Christ as a whole, and not about every believer in the body, I don't believe is correct.

 

[disciple Clint]

he did not sweat blood ... you speak as one who has authority of the scriptures and yet you have twice added your own reasoning in this one verse alone !

And having been in agony, He was praying more earnestly. And His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down upon the ground.

Hematidrosis: Did Jesus Sweat Blood?
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

Luke, the author of the New Testament books of Luke and Acts, by profession, was a physician. His writings manifest an intimate acquaintance with the technical language of the Greek medical schools of Asia Minor.

Of the four gospel writers, only Dr. Luke referred to Jesus’ ordeal as “agony” (agonia). It is because of this agony over things to come that we learn during His prayer “his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (Luke 22:44). Only Luke referred to Jesus’ sweat (idros)—a much used medical term. And only Luke referred to Jesus’ sweat as consisting of great drops of blood (thromboi haimatos)—a medical condition alluded to by both Aristotle and Theophrastus.1 The Greek term thromboi (from which we get thrombus, thrombin, et al.) refers to clots of blood.2 Bible scholar Richard Lenski commented on the use of this term: “‘As clots,’ thromboi, means that the blood mingled with the sweat and thickened the globules so that they fell to the ground in little clots and did not merely stain the skin.”3

The Greek word hosei (“as it were”) refers to condition, not comparison, as Greek scholar Henry Alford observed:

The intention of the Evangelist seems clearly to be, to convey the idea that the sweat was (not fell like, but was) like drops of blood;—i.e., coloured with blood,—for so I understand the ώσεί, as just distinguishing the drops highly coloured with blood, from pure blood…. To suppose that it only fell like drops of blood (why not drops of any thing else? And drops of blood from what, and where?) is to nullify the force of the sentence, and make the insertion of ἁίματος not only superfluous but absurd.4 Hematidrosis: Did Jesus Sweat Blood?

 

[disciple Clint]

Believe what you want.

Mary is not called the mother of God in scripture.

Explain just what God’s emptied Himself of, what was made of no effect, when He became a man.

Strongs exhaustive concordance:

G2758 (Strong)

κενόω

kenoō

ken-o'-o

From G2756; to make empty, that is, (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify: - make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

Total KJV occurrences: 5

It’s clear that you choose to ignore scripture.

Jesus absolutely walked the earth as a man, not as God, because He had to ask the Father for His glory back, when He rose.

He didn’t know all things. He didn’t know when He was returning to earth.

He didn’t start His ministry until baptized, and ANOINTED with Dunamis power to do miracles.

He told the Pharisees He cast out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit, so when they accused Him of casting its out by the power of Satan, He said they blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

But don’t let facts influence you.

As you said believe what you like and do not let the facts influence you. Here is the authority for what I posted which is just basic Orthodox Theology.
Pope Pius XII in 1951 wrote Sempiternus Rex Christus, in which he condemns a particular interpretation of Philippians in regards to the kenosis:

There is another enemy of the faith of Chalcedon, widely diffused outside the fold of the Catholic religion. This is an opinion for which a rashly and falsely understood sentence of St. Paul's Epistle to the Philippians (ii, 7), supplies a basis and a shape. This is called the kenotic doctrine, and according to it, they imagine that the divinity was taken away from the Word in Christ. It is a wicked invention, equally to be condemned with the Docetism opposed to it. It reduces the whole mystery of the Incarnation and Redemption to empty the bloodless imaginations. 'With the entire and perfect nature of man'—thus grandly St. Leo the Great—'He Who was true God was born, complete in his own nature, complete in ours' (Ep. xxviii, 3. PL. Liv, 763. Cf. Serm. xxiii, 2. PL. lvi, 201).
By Deacon Keith Fournier

From antiquity, Mary has been called "Theotokos", or "God-Bearer" (Mother of God). The word in Greek is "Theotokos". The term was used as part of the popular piety of the early first millennium church. It is used throughout the Eastern Church's Liturgy, both Orthodox and Catholic. It lies at the heart of the Latin Rite's deep Marian piety and devotion. This title was a response to early threats to 'orthodoxy', the preservation of authentic Christian teaching. A pronouncement of an early Church Council, The Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D., insisted "If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the holy virgin is the "Theotokos" (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the word of God become flesh by birth) let him be anathema." (The Council of Ephesus, 431 AD)

The Council's insistence on the use of the title reflected an effort to preserve the teaching of the Church that Jesus was both Divine and human, that the two natures were united in His One Person. Not only was that teaching under an assault then, it is under an assault now, and failing to "get it right" has extraordinary implications. The reason that the early Church Council pronounced this doctrine was "Christological", meaning that it had to do with Jesus Christ. One of the threats was from an interpretation of the teachings of a Bishop of Constantinople named Nestorius. Some of his followers insisted on calling Mary only the "Mother of 'the Christ'". The Council insisted on the use of the title (in the Greek) "Theotokos," ("Mother of God" or "God-bearer") to reaffirm the central truth of what occurred in the Incarnation of Jesus Christ. Mother of God (Theotokos) - Mary, Mother of God - Catholic Online

 

[mlepfitjw]

@disciple Clint John 22:44 He prayed more fervently, and he was in such agony of spirit that his sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood.

Blood is heavy, so apparently he must have being praying so hard he was sweating a lot, because the agony from the spirit grieving with in him.

Also councils and creeds are just doctrines of men it doesn’t mean they are right, or wrong it is all subjective beliefs of what men believe is right or wrong when it comes to understanding the Bible.

This why I believe faith and looking towards the Lord Yeshua Christ is important He taught with authority. Also I posted earlier about Philippians 2:1-11 and explained the emptying of the Yeshua, verse by verse.

Yeshua emptied out the notions of himself of being the creator, though he was the word who created. Becoming lowly He humbled himself a servant, and served God under the law because of this God gave him a name above all names.

 

[disciple Clint]

@disciple Clint John 22:44 He prayed more fervently, and he was in such agony of spirit that his sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood.

Blood is heavy, so apparently he must have being praying so hard he was sweating a lot, because the agony from the spirit grieving with in him.

Also councils and creeds are just doctrines of men it doesn’t mean they are right, or wrong it is all subjective beliefs of what men believe is right or wrong when it comes to understanding the Bible.

This why I believe faith and looking towards the Lord Yeshua Christ is important He taught with authority. Also I posted earlier about Philippians 2:1-11 and explained the emptying of the Yeshua, verse by verse.

Yeshua emptied out the notions of himself of being the creator, though he was the word who created. He humbled himself a servant, and served God under the law because of this God gave him a name above all names.

let us not forget that the authority for the Scripture that we use as proof text was the Church Councils

 

[mlepfitjw]

@disciple Clint There is no authority or people in authority at all, when it comes to the Bible other than God. No sola scripture, and There is no pastor that can tell you what to do, there is no teacher that is responsible for your own salvation is my point.

If you wanna follow men though be it your own way friend. I just always like to remind people that we as humans are falliable.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I agree with the Scripture but what then was the case of Jesus suffering in the garden, what caused him to sweat blood? He is 100% man is it unreasonable for a man knowing what he is going to suffer to experience some fear?

suffer and fear are not the same and to make the assumption that Jesus feared death is one I will not make for perfect love ( Jesus is Gods love Incarnate) casts out fear. Jesus commanded His disciples not to fear what man can do to them. So if Jesus feared death then He sinned and was in directly contradicting His own commands.

“God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control” (2 Timothy 1:7

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I just described what the Bible says.

In the Greek, forget translations, Jesus EMPTIED HIMSELF - the Greek word is Kenoo: to make empty, to make void, to make of no effect - Kenoo is where the word KENOSIS comes from.

You can call the Greek MSS heretical if you like - your choice.

Phil 2:5-8
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
NIV

These translation capture the meaning of the text in its CONTEXT.

New International Version
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,

New King James Version
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

King James Bible
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Thayers Greek Lexicon
namely, τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ), Philippians 2:7

Strongs Lexicon
From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

Louw Nida Greek Lexicon
87.70 κενόωb: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank.

a text without the context is a pretext for a prooftext. The "context" is what gives a words it true meaning and how it is being used in that given context. kenoe,kenos has a variation of meanings and empty is just one of many it "COULD" possibly be.

hope this helps !!!

 

[chad kincham]

Don, I am sorry for the length of this response, but it was something I penned about 2 years ago. Hopefully, it will give you some clarity:

Looking at responses to theological objections that a potential brother or sister in Christ might voice, (mostly due to having been misinformed):

‘I don’t believe Jesus is God.’

I understand why you wouldn’t. This has been debated for centuries. So, let’s take a look at what God has to say:

Then God said, “Let Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in Our image, according to Our likeness [not physical, but a spiritual personality and moral likeness]…” Gn. 1:26 AMP

‘Note the Amplified Bible’s insertion of a trinity of deities. The New King James translation just sticks with the word ‘Us.’ You might think that God is just referring to Himself in the manner of a royal ‘We.’ Personally, I don’t think so.

Can we conclude that the Son of God was present when humankind was created?

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last…” Rv. 1:11 NKJV [Note that God says the same thing about Himself. (Rv. 21:6)]

“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Jn. 8:58 NKJV

“And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” Jn. 17:5 NKJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. Jn. 1:1-4. NASB

Clearly, the Son of God is the Word of God; God’s very expression. Unmistakably, He was with God before anything, (including the universe itself), was created. Thus, there was nothing to create Christ with, other than the essence of God Himself. And yet, because God is infinite, He cannot divide Himself without becoming finite. Therefore, the Son of God must be incorporated within the Father.

Does that make Him God? In a sense, (to the best of our abilities to understand the infinite), yes; or at the very least, a definite deified Being. A mere man could not facilitate all creation. Indeed, the Son of God cannot, at this juncture in the beginning of time, be a man, because flesh and blood cannot inhabit heaven. (1 Cor. 15:50) Therefore, He must be a Spirit.

Note that some religious sects try to explain that God and Jesus are not the same because they read Jn. 1:1 as: …and the word was a god in their own translations of the Bible.(Emphasis mine.) But check this out:

For He has rescued us and has drawn us to Himself from the dominion of darkness, and has transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption [because of His sacrifice, resulting in] the forgiveness of our sins [and the cancellation of sin’s penalty].

He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation. For by Him all things were created in heaven and on earth, [things] visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [that is, by His activity] and for Him. And He Himself existed and is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. [His is the controlling, cohesive force of the universe.]

…He Himself will occupy the first place [He will stand supreme and be preeminent] in everything. For it pleased the Father for all the fullness [of deity – the sum total of His essence, all His perfection, powers, and attributes] to dwell [permanently] in Him (the Son)… Col. 1:13 – 19. AMP

This is not an ordinary man. Jesus would have to be at least God-like, which this scripture clearly expresses. Neither can we hold up a mere human being to be our source of salvation:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Jn. 14:6 – 8. NKJV

Jesus is essentially saying, “Look at Me, this is what God is like in the flesh.” This is so that we may experience God with our five senses.

Let’s reflect upon one of God’s prophecies:

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Is. 7:14 NKJV

Immanuel means ‘God is with us.” Here is the same prophet, mouthing God’s words:

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Is. 9:6 NKJV

Indeed, God conveyed the Spirit of His Son, (the essence of God), by way of the Holy Spirit, into the womb of the virgin Mary. The rest is history:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles believed on in the world, received up in glory. 1 Tim. 3:16 NKJV

…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus… Titus 2:13 NASB

“My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God. Jn. 5:17, 18. NASB

Jesus in fact, said that we must give Him equal honor:

“…all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.” Jn. 5:22 NKJV

…although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes – the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it]… Phil. 2:6 AMP

What must also be considered, is that God demanded in the first of the Ten Commandments that only He is to be worshiped. (Ex. 20:4, 5.) That also forbade any worshiping of angels. (Rv. 22:8) However, Jesus did allow Himself to be worshiped:

Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.” Mt. 14:33 NKJV

Then he said, “Lord I believe!” And he worshiped Him. Jn. 9:38 NKJV

While He was here bodily, Christ raised people from the dead, e.g. Lazarus. At the end of time, He will also give eternal life to all God’s children:

“…everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” Jn. 6:40 NKJV

Again, and again, no ordinary human being could do these things.

Jesus was filled with the essence of God and was separately human. Note the demonstration of His power:

And when He called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Mt. 10:1 NKJV

Even when Christ went to the cross, He had the power to resurrect Himself:

“…I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it again.” Jn. 10:17, 18. NKJV

For myself then, if Jesus is not God, He is so much like Him that there is no meaningful difference. However, I receive letters from these aforementioned sects that present well thought-out objections. Let’s consider them:

1. Jesus died; and God cannot die.

My answer is that only the human form of Christ died, and that part, (the perfect man), had to, to pay for the sins of Man. His humanity was trusting His Father to care for Him. It was Christ’s ‘God essence’ that raised Him from the dead (which only God could do), so that the world could be reconciled to His Father.

2. No one can see God and live.

True. But all the people saw was His human form until His resurrection, when they witnessed His integrative God-Man self.

3. Jesus was flesh and blood.

Yes, His human part was. The nature of His God-Man self is unknown to us. As we know, He could then appear and disappear at will, yet allowed the apostles to handle Him.

4. He prayed to His Father. Yes, but that was prior to His God-Man manifestation.

5. Finally, Jesus was tempted; and God cannot be tempted.

Christ was tempted in His flesh. God wanted Jesus to be humankind’s high priest. The only way to do that was to gain an empathy towards them which could only come by direct experience. His ‘God Essence’ was not involved. God cannot be in touch with sin. This was the only way.

Ultimately, even if the Godhead is considered as one, we must acknowledge, (even if we don’t understand it), that there is some form of tripartite existence within the whole. We see in scripture where God declares Himself as one God (Dt. 6:4; Is. 46:9). We see He and Jesus separately in Daniel’s vision (Dan. 7:14, 14.) and during Jesus’ baptism we see all of the Godhead together but separate. (Mt. 3:16, 17.) Jesus said that He required His Father’s power to accomplish anything, but that was when He was in the flesh manifestation. (Jn. 5:19, 20.) He also said that His Father was greater than Him. (Jn. 14:28) We may consider that in the light of God being the integrative whole of the Godhead, but that’s only conjecture on my part. Finally, we have Jesus’ outcries of anguish on the cross; but, He was experiencing the pain of His flesh, which was the source of His cries. (Mk. 15:34)

And then we have all the aforementioned scripture that infers a closeness between the Father and the Son that we may never understand until our heavenly appointment…

Though the Bible clearly establishes the deity of Jesus, the belief criteria for salvation is that we believe Jesus is the Son of God, not that we understand at the time of receiving Jesus, that He is God.

Jesus said we must believe He is the Son of God.

Peter confessed that Jesus is the son of God.

1 John says:

1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Understanding that the Son of God is also God the Son, comes after salvation, so we don’t need to go beyond the salvational criteria of belief in God’s Son.

Shalom.

 

[chad kincham]

Don, I am sorry for the length of this response, but it was something I penned about 2 years ago. Hopefully, it will give you some clarity:

Looking at responses to theological objections that a potential brother or sister in Christ might voice, (mostly due to having been misinformed):

‘I don’t believe Jesus is God.’

I understand why you wouldn’t. This has been debated for centuries. So, let’s take a look at what God has to say:

Then God said, “Let Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in Our image, according to Our likeness [not physical, but a spiritual personality and moral likeness]…” Gn. 1:26 AMP

‘Note the Amplified Bible’s insertion of a trinity of deities. The New King James translation just sticks with the word ‘Us.’ You might think that God is just referring to Himself in the manner of a royal ‘We.’ Personally, I don’t think so.

Can we conclude that the Son of God was present when humankind was created?

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last…” Rv. 1:11 NKJV [Note that God says the same thing about Himself. (Rv. 21:6)]

“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Jn. 8:58 NKJV

“And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” Jn. 17:5 NKJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. Jn. 1:1-4. NASB

Clearly, the Son of God is the Word of God; God’s very expression. Unmistakably, He was with God before anything, (including the universe itself), was created. Thus, there was nothing to create Christ with, other than the essence of God Himself. And yet, because God is infinite, He cannot divide Himself without becoming finite. Therefore, the Son of God must be incorporated within the Father.

Does that make Him God? In a sense, (to the best of our abilities to understand the infinite), yes; or at the very least, a definite deified Being. A mere man could not facilitate all creation. Indeed, the Son of God cannot, at this juncture in the beginning of time, be a man, because flesh and blood cannot inhabit heaven. (1 Cor. 15:50) Therefore, He must be a Spirit.

Note that some religious sects try to explain that God and Jesus are not the same because they read Jn. 1:1 as: …and the word was a god in their own translations of the Bible.(Emphasis mine.) But check this out:

For He has rescued us and has drawn us to Himself from the dominion of darkness, and has transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption [because of His sacrifice, resulting in] the forgiveness of our sins [and the cancellation of sin’s penalty].

He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation. For by Him all things were created in heaven and on earth, [things] visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [that is, by His activity] and for Him. And He Himself existed and is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. [His is the controlling, cohesive force of the universe.]

…He Himself will occupy the first place [He will stand supreme and be preeminent] in everything. For it pleased the Father for all the fullness [of deity – the sum total of His essence, all His perfection, powers, and attributes] to dwell [permanently] in Him (the Son)… Col. 1:13 – 19. AMP

This is not an ordinary man. Jesus would have to be at least God-like, which this scripture clearly expresses. Neither can we hold up a mere human being to be our source of salvation:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Jn. 14:6 – 8. NKJV

Jesus is essentially saying, “Look at Me, this is what God is like in the flesh.” This is so that we may experience God with our five senses.

Let’s reflect upon one of God’s prophecies:

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Is. 7:14 NKJV

Immanuel means ‘God is with us.” Here is the same prophet, mouthing God’s words:

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Is. 9:6 NKJV

Indeed, God conveyed the Spirit of His Son, (the essence of God), by way of the Holy Spirit, into the womb of the virgin Mary. The rest is history:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles believed on in the world, received up in glory. 1 Tim. 3:16 NKJV

…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus… Titus 2:13 NASB

“My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God. Jn. 5:17, 18. NASB

Jesus in fact, said that we must give Him equal honor:

“…all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.” Jn. 5:22 NKJV

…although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes – the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it]… Phil. 2:6 AMP

What must also be considered, is that God demanded in the first of the Ten Commandments that only He is to be worshiped. (Ex. 20:4, 5.) That also forbade any worshiping of angels. (Rv. 22:8) However, Jesus did allow Himself to be worshiped:

Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.” Mt. 14:33 NKJV

Then he said, “Lord I believe!” And he worshiped Him. Jn. 9:38 NKJV

While He was here bodily, Christ raised people from the dead, e.g. Lazarus. At the end of time, He will also give eternal life to all God’s children:

“…everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” Jn. 6:40 NKJV

Again, and again, no ordinary human being could do these things.

Jesus was filled with the essence of God and was separately human. Note the demonstration of His power:

And when He called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Mt. 10:1 NKJV

Even when Christ went to the cross, He had the power to resurrect Himself:

“…I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it again.” Jn. 10:17, 18. NKJV

For myself then, if Jesus is not God, He is so much like Him that there is no meaningful difference. However, I receive letters from these aforementioned sects that present well thought-out objections. Let’s consider them:

1. Jesus died; and God cannot die.

My answer is that only the human form of Christ died, and that part, (the perfect man), had to, to pay for the sins of Man. His humanity was trusting His Father to care for Him. It was Christ’s ‘God essence’ that raised Him from the dead (which only God could do), so that the world could be reconciled to His Father.

2. No one can see God and live.

True. But all the people saw was His human form until His resurrection, when they witnessed His integrative God-Man self.

3. Jesus was flesh and blood.

Yes, His human part was. The nature of His God-Man self is unknown to us. As we know, He could then appear and disappear at will, yet allowed the apostles to handle Him.

4. He prayed to His Father. Yes, but that was prior to His God-Man manifestation.

5. Finally, Jesus was tempted; and God cannot be tempted.

Christ was tempted in His flesh. God wanted Jesus to be humankind’s high priest. The only way to do that was to gain an empathy towards them which could only come by direct experience. His ‘God Essence’ was not involved. God cannot be in touch with sin. This was the only way.

Ultimately, even if the Godhead is considered as one, we must acknowledge, (even if we don’t understand it), that there is some form of tripartite existence within the whole. We see in scripture where God declares Himself as one God (Dt. 6:4; Is. 46:9). We see He and Jesus separately in Daniel’s vision (Dan. 7:14, 14.) and during Jesus’ baptism we see all of the Godhead together but separate. (Mt. 3:16, 17.) Jesus said that He required His Father’s power to accomplish anything, but that was when He was in the flesh manifestation. (Jn. 5:19, 20.) He also said that His Father was greater than Him. (Jn. 14:28) We may consider that in the light of God being the integrative whole of the Godhead, but that’s only conjecture on my part. Finally, we have Jesus’ outcries of anguish on the cross; but, He was experiencing the pain of His flesh, which was the source of His cries. (Mk. 15:34)

And then we have all the aforementioned scripture that infers a closeness between the Father and the Son that we may never understand until our heavenly appointment…

 

[chad kincham]

These translation capture the meaning of the text in its CONTEXT.

New International Version
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,

New King James Version
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

King James Bible
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

God is Immutable. For Jesus not to have any Omni Attributes by default makes Him not God. You just described the heresy known as kenosis.

87.70 κενόω: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank- Louw Nida Greek Lexicon

He self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 1:19;2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.

Paul is using syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.

Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.

It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”

That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".

In Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

The context is God emptied Himself, made Himself void, and made Himself of no effect (Kenoo) and therefore set aside all manifestation of His deity, to take the form of a man.

Period.

 

[chad kincham]

87.70 κενόω: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank- Louw Nida Greek Lexicon

Thayers
to empty, make empty: ἑαυτόν ἐκένωσε, namely, τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ)


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
empty, make void, be in vain.
From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

Thanks for proving that Kenoo means to empty, to make void and to make of no effect.

 

[chad kincham]

I don't think you got my point. My point is you can't make "he that believes" into "the body of Christ" or "all believers". Jesus is saying "anyone" that believes in me will do the same and greater miracles than me. He is talking about the individual believer, even it's granted here that he means every single one that believes, that it's possible for everyone in the body of Christ.

To say Jesus is talking here about the body of Christ as a whole, and not about every believer in the body, I don't believe is correct.

Yeah, you’re right, so when Jesus says whoever believes in Him shall be saved, He really means SOME who believe are saved.

Got it.

 

[chad kincham]

As you said believe what you like and do not let the facts influence you. Here is the authority for what I posted which is just basic Orthodox Theology.
Pope Pius XII in 1951 wrote Sempiternus Rex Christus, in which he condemns a particular interpretation of Philippians in regards to the kenosis:

There is another enemy of the faith of Chalcedon, widely diffused outside the fold of the Catholic religion. This is an opinion for which a rashly and falsely understood sentence of St. Paul's Epistle to the Philippians (ii, 7), supplies a basis and a shape. This is called the kenotic doctrine, and according to it, they imagine that the divinity was taken away from the Word in Christ. It is a wicked invention, equally to be condemned with the Docetism opposed to it. It reduces the whole mystery of the Incarnation and Redemption to empty the bloodless imaginations. 'With the entire and perfect nature of man'—thus grandly St. Leo the Great—'He Who was true God was born, complete in his own nature, complete in ours' (Ep. xxviii, 3. PL. Liv, 763. Cf. Serm. xxiii, 2. PL. lvi, 201).
By Deacon Keith Fournier

From antiquity, Mary has been called "Theotokos", or "God-Bearer" (Mother of God). The word in Greek is "Theotokos". The term was used as part of the popular piety of the early first millennium church. It is used throughout the Eastern Church's Liturgy, both Orthodox and Catholic. It lies at the heart of the Latin Rite's deep Marian piety and devotion. This title was a response to early threats to 'orthodoxy', the preservation of authentic Christian teaching. A pronouncement of an early Church Council, The Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D., insisted "If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the holy virgin is the "Theotokos" (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the word of God become flesh by birth) let him be anathema." (The Council of Ephesus, 431 AD)

The Council's insistence on the use of the title reflected an effort to preserve the teaching of the Church that Jesus was both Divine and human, that the two natures were united in His One Person. Not only was that teaching under an assault then, it is under an assault now, and failing to "get it right" has extraordinary implications. The reason that the early Church Council pronounced this doctrine was "Christological", meaning that it had to do with Jesus Christ. One of the threats was from an interpretation of the teachings of a Bishop of Constantinople named Nestorius. Some of his followers insisted on calling Mary only the "Mother of 'the Christ'". The Council insisted on the use of the title (in the Greek) "Theotokos," ("Mother of God" or "God-bearer") to reaffirm the central truth of what occurred in the Incarnation of Jesus Christ. Mother of God (Theotokos) - Mary, Mother of God - Catholic Online

Sorry. You can cite your sources all day long, I’ll stick with the fact that the Bible never once calls Mary the mother of God, because God has no mother.

She IS called the mother of Jesus, though.

I hate to bear bad news, but Mary was not sinless, was not assumed bodily to heaven without dying, is not co ruling Heaven with Jesus as the queen of heaven, and is not the mother of God.


Shalom.

 

[chad kincham]

let us not forget that the authority for the Scripture that we use as proof text was the Church Councils

Scripture itself says to study the scriptures, not study the councils.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thanks for proving that Kenoo means to empty, to make void and to make of no effect.

no you are reading your own meaning into the text and isolating the word from its context which is proof-texting. There are other meanings to kennoe than empty which I provided from the lexicons and various bible translations.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thanks for proving that Kenoo means to empty, to make void and to make of no effect.

no thats not what the lexicons said its your own BIAS,

next.........................

 

[Aussie Pete]

Was Jesus Just a Man Or was He GOD?

anyone?

God and Man simultaneously.

 

[zoidar]

Yeah, you’re right, so when Jesus says whoever believes in Him shall be saved, He really means SOME who believe are saved.

Got it.

No! Whoever (everyone) that believes among all men will be saved.

I'm about to start a thread about John 14:12, join in if you like.

 

[disciple Clint]

suffer and fear are not the same and to make the assumption that Jesus feared death is one I will not make for perfect love ( Jesus is Gods love Incarnate) casts out fear. Jesus commanded His disciples not to fear what man can do to them. So if Jesus feared death then He sinned and was in directly contradicting His own commands.

“God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control” (2 Timothy 1:7

hope this helps !!!

You may be right, I cannot conceive of the human nature of Jesus not experiencing fear just as any man would, I would point out that He was tempted by Satan several time and those temptations were real to His human nature even though His God nature could not sin.