Who was Jesus

[zoidar]

suffer and fear are not the same and to make the assumption that Jesus feared death is one I will not make for perfect love ( Jesus is Gods love Incarnate) casts out fear. Jesus commanded His disciples not to fear what man can do to them. So if Jesus feared death then He sinned and was in directly contradicting His own commands.

“God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control” (2 Timothy 1:7

hope this helps !!!

Did Jesus have anxiety, you think? Or is that connected to fear?

 

[disciple Clint]

Sorry. You can cite your sources all day long, I’ll stick with the fact that the Bible never once calls Mary the mother of God, because God has no mother.

She IS called the mother of Jesus, though.

I hate to bear bad news, but Mary was not sinless, was not assumed bodily to heaven without dying, is not co ruling Heaven with Jesus as the queen of heaven, and is not the mother of God.


Shalom.

Well the Bible never once mentions the Trinity, does that mean that to you it does not exist? So she is the mother of Jesus and is Jesus God? The Church concluded this battle in 325 and 451 do you want to resume it?

 

[disciple Clint]

Scripture itself says to study the scriptures, not study the councils.

Were it not for the Church Councils you would have no authoritative basis for knowing what is and is not Scripture. You would also have to deal with numerous heresies. I am just trying to show you what Orthodox Theology is, I am not interested in trying to make you believe anything that you are uncomfortable in believing, I see my efforts as being informative not transformative.

 

[disciple Clint]

Sorry. You can cite your sources all day long, I’ll stick with the fact that the Bible never once calls Mary the mother of God, because God has no mother.

She IS called the mother of Jesus, though.

I hate to bear bad news, but Mary was not sinless, was not assumed bodily to heaven without dying, is not co ruling Heaven with Jesus as the queen of heaven, and is not the mother of God.


Shalom.

Regarding your issues about Mary, I do not profess to be a Catholic or to have studied Catholic Theology in any depth but for the benefit of my Catholic brothers I am providing you with this information. Immaculate Conception and Assumption and Hail Mary, Conceived Without Sin

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Did Jesus have anxiety, you think? Or is that connected to fear?

Its the same word in the Greek in Mathew 6 and Philippians 4 below, anxiety and worry are the same thing. Both Jesus and Paul are giving us a command to obey.

Matthew 6:25-34
“Therefore- I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

 

[zoidar]

Its the same word in the Greek in Mathew 6 and Philippians 4 below, anxiety and worry are the same thing. Both Jesus and Paul are giving us a command to obey.

Matthew 6:25-34
“Therefore- I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

Luke 22:44
being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

He was in agony. What does that mean then?

agōnia

Dodson:
ἀγωνία
contest, agony (properly the feeling of the athlete before a contest), great fear, terror, of death; anxiety, agony.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Luke 22:44
being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

He was in agony. What does that mean then?

agōnia

Dodson:
ἀγωνία
contest, agony (properly the feeling of the athlete before a contest), great fear, terror, of death; anxiety, agony.

So let me get this correct. You are going to base your idea of Jesus on a single passage where the only time agonia is used in the New Testament is in this passage ?

It can very well mean a "contest" like your definition above said like an athlete before a contest. So maybe the contest is with satan and temptation to walk away from His passion. Nevertheless Jesus said not my will but you will Father.

So maybe the struggle was wrestling or battling the enemy ?

Thayer's Definition- a struggle for victory , gymnastic exercise, wrestling

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So maybe that is the meaning in the passage. Plus the narrative in Luke 22 reveals the comic battle was about to take place as satan had just entered judas to betray Him and Jesus tells Peter that satan has asked Him permission to sift him like wheat and that he was going to betray Him 3 times.

hope this helps !!!

 

[zoidar]

So let me get this correct. You are going to base your idea of Jesus on a single passage where the only time agonia is used in the New Testament is in this passage ?

Well, yes! He was sweating blood, so the feelings must have been intense.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Well, yes! He was sweating blood, so the feelings must have been intense.

Then we see that passage differently in light of the rest of the scriptures we have been discussing.

 

[RickReads]

Well, yes! He was sweating blood, so the feelings must have been intense.

I listened to a sermon about it once, the preacher believed that Jesus was feeling the weight of the world`s sin at that moment.

 

[Matthew Parsons]

Was Jesus Just a Man Or was He GOD?

anyone?[/QU

 

[ViaCrucis]

Vis-a-vis Jesus and fear/anxiety.

We need to be very careful here. While not one of the more well known of the ancient heresies, the heresy of Julianism, more technically known as Aphartodocetism, associated with Julian of Halicarnassus was nevertheless a serious heresy of the ancient period, and represents a continued danger to orthodox Christology.

According to Julian of Halicarnassus Christ only seemed, or appeared to be able to suffer; but that in reality His body was thoroughly incorruptible and impassible even before the resurrection. So Christ did not fully participate in our weakness, our mortality, our sufferings--but only in some sense appeared to do so.

Thus Christ's passions, including His anxiety in the garden, or even His weeping over the death of Lazarus are only "apparent", but not actually real.

This should be obvious as to why it is a problem, as it undermines the full and complete humanity of Jesus Christ.

This is why the definition of Chalcedon's language "like us in all ways but without sin" is such an important and good way of putting it. Jesus was human, in every single way that you and I are human, the only difference between Him and us is that He was without sin. That's the only difference. He still experienced pain, He was still mortal, He was still capable of suffering, of experiencing emotion, fear, anxiety, joy, sadness. He could still sneeze, or stub His toe, or drool when He slept, have bad breath.

He was really really human. Not just mostly human, or human-like. But a man, in all ways an ordinary man but without sin; while at the same time being true and very and eternal God.

As crude as it may sound to say it, but yes God farted. God became man, that's our salvation.

The paradox of the Incarnation shouldn't cause us to flee, but rather we should embrace it, it is the mystery of our religion as Paul calls it (1 Timothy 3:16).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RickReads]

Vis-a-vis Jesus and fear/anxiety.

We need to be very careful here. While not one of the more well known of the ancient heresies, the heresy of Julianism, more technically known as Aphartodocetism, associated with Julian of Halicarnassus was nevertheless a serious heresy of the ancient period, and represents a continued danger to orthodox Christology.

According to Julian of Halicarnassus Christ only seemed, or appeared to be able to suffer; but that in reality His body was thoroughly incorruptible and impassible even before the resurrection. So Christ did not fully participate in our weakness, our mortality, our sufferings--but only in some sense appeared to do so.

Thus Christ's passions, including His anxiety in the garden, or even His weeping over the death of Lazarus are only "apparent", but not actually real.

This should be obvious as to why it is a problem, as it undermines the full and complete humanity of Jesus Christ.

This is why the definition of Chalcedon's language "like us in all ways but without sin" is such an important and good way of putting it. Jesus was human, in every single way that you and I are human, the only difference between Him and us is that He was without sin. That's the only difference. He still experienced pain, He was still mortal, He was still capable of suffering, of experiencing emotion, fear, anxiety, joy, sadness. He could still sneeze, or stub His toe, or drool when He slept, have bad breath.

He was really really human. Not just mostly human, or human-like. But a man, in all ways an ordinary man but without sin; while at the same time being true and very and eternal God.

As crude as it may sound to say it, but yes God farted. God became man, that's our salvation.

The paradox of the Incarnation shouldn't cause us to flee, but rather we should embrace it, it is the mystery of our religion as Paul calls it (1 Timothy 3:16).

-CryptoLutheran

I just think Jesus was better than I am. Fear isn`t one of my problems.

 

[zoidar]

I just think Jesus was better than I am. Fear isn`t one of my problems.

Having anxiety or fear is a normal human trait. There is no sin in that. Acting on fear or acting cowardly could be sin. Would Jesus be "better" if he never had anxiety? Isn't the amazing thing that Jesus experienced all these feelings of agony, yet conquered and went through it all for our sake?

 

[RickReads]

Having anxiety or fear is a normal human trait. There is no sin in that. Acting on fear or acting cowardly could be sin. Would Jesus be "better" if he never had anxiety? Isn't the amazing thing that Jesus experienced all these feelings of agony, yet went through it all for our sake?

Weight of the world`s sin on someone who knew no sin would be pretty stressful. I don`t believe he was ever afraid though. I expect better of my hero than that.

 

[chad kincham]

Regarding your issues about Mary, I do not profess to be a Catholic or to have studied Catholic Theology in any depth but for the benefit of my Catholic brothers I am providing you with this information. Immaculate Conception and Assumption and Hail Mary, Conceived Without Sin

Mary called Jesus her savior.

Mary and Joseph brought doves into the temple as a sacrifice for their sins.

God only had one begotten child - a son called Jesus - everyone else is a sinner.

If Mary had to be sinless to have the sinless Jesus, then her mother would need to be sinless to have the sinless Mary - and there would have to be a whole lineage of sinless women, which is ludicrous.

Shalom.

 

[zoidar]

Then we see that passage differently in light of the rest of the scriptures we have been discussing.

Jesus is showing emotions in other places as well. He is crying with Lazarus family and also for the people of Jerusalem.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Jesus is showing emotions in other places as well. He is crying with Lazarus family and also for the people of Jerusalem.

and where does crying imply sin like anxiety/worry/fear does in scripture ?

 

[zoidar]

and where does crying imply sin like anxiety/worry/fear does in scripture ?

Crying doesn't imply sin in scripture. Where in scripture do anxiety/worry/fear do that?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Crying doesn't imply sin scripture. Where in scripture do anxiety/worry/fear do that?

the commands not to do those things