Who Created God?

[Sasso]

The visions? When did you have these visions?

The feelings? I believe they are merely just psychological effects of wanting it.

 

[OneThingOnly]

Greetings in the Name of Jesus...
God does not intend to prove Himself to anyone, as He has made Himself evident through what exitsts. If you found a watch in a jungle, would you think it just grew there or that someone created it? The brain by itself is a 1000 or million times more complex than a watch.

If you are truly interested in finding God, God says you must seek Him with all you heart. Not for curiosity, but to know Him, because He can be known and will reveal Himself to those who truly seek Him because they sincerely want to know Him.

The only reason a person can't find God is because they don't truly intend to acknowledge Him and receive Him and believe in Him and live according to His standard. God knows your heart better than you do. I hope and pray some day you truly find Him, then you will find life.

Blessings.

 

[cool29801]

Well said, I'm pretty sure that about wraps it all up!

 

[Buttermilk]

If you are truly interested in finding God, God says you must seek Him with all you heart. Not for curiosity, but to know Him, because He can be known and will reveal Himself to those who truly seek Him because they sincerely want to know Him.

The only reason a person can't find God is because they don't truly intend to acknowledge Him and receive Him and believe in Him and live according to His standard. God knows your heart better than you do. I hope and pray some day you truly find Him, then you will find life.

Blessings.

The Calvinsits might disagree with you here

 

[Radiata]

The Calvinsits might disagree with you here

Are you a Calvinist?

 

[Buttermilk]

Are you a Calvinist?

Would I be asking my OP question if I was?

 

[Buttermilk]

Well said, I'm pretty sure that about wraps it all up!

Maybe for you it does

 

[Radiata]

Would I be asking my OP question if I was?

Then why do you bring it up?

 

[brinny]

Who created God? Where did He come from?

As a matter of fact, Ravi Zacharias addresses that very question in one of his lectures. He has a website. I think it's rzim.org

Check him out.

 

[Buttermilk]

Then why do you bring it up?

Because Calvinists believe people are chosen by God - are unable to choose God for themselves - contorary to what the poster was saying.

And that throws another question into the pot

Maybe I'm wasting my time - if I'm picked, I'm picked and I'll know it - do I just wait and see if I'm picked, or do I move on from this?

 

[Radiata]

Because Calvinists believe people are chosen by God - are unable to choose God for themselves - contorary to what the poster was saying.

And that throws another question into the pot

Maybe I'm wasting my time - if I'm picked, I'm picked and I'll know it - do I just wait and see if I'm picked, or do I move on from this?

You're only half right. What the calvinists believe is that God chooses some to go to heaven and chooses the rest to go to hell. When in actuality, God chooses everybody and it is only those who reject this free gift of grace that are as what you call "not chosen."

 

[Buttermilk]

You're only half right. What the calvinists believe is that God chooses some to go to heaven and chooses the rest to go to hell. When in actuality, God chooses everybody and it is only those who reject this free gift of grace that are as what you call "not chosen."

You are contradicting yourself in this post

(And why am I only half right?)

 

[Radiata]

Not at all. What you call not chosen are what I call those who reject God's gift. I say you are half right because God does not choose half. He chooses all. It gets a little complicated after that. But that's just how the santification process goes. First we sin, then we are condemned, than God gives us grace, and depending on if we reject it or not, we are saved. It is no work of ours, it is all God's grace that has brought us salvation.

 

[Buttermilk]

There is a major difference between being chosen or not being chosen by someone (God) and you yourself choosing or not choosing (rejecting) someone (God)

The two most definately are NOT the same

 

[Radiata]

There is a major difference between being chosen or not being chosen by someone (God) and you yourself choosing or not choosing (rejecting) someone (God)

The two most definitely are NOT the same

They are most definitely not the same. To say that one chooses God is falling victim to what is known as pelaginsim which is the idea that we actually contribute anything to our own salvation. And going through the strain of choosing God is doing and therefore puts a prerequisite on salvation. In fact, when saying that we choose, we are lowering the cost of salvation to such an obscure amount. If there is to be error, then the lesser error is on those who believe that there must be works. High, mighty, perfect, and multiple works that we must do in order to obtain eternal life. They place the cost of salvation as high and nigh unobtainable. But, no form of pelaginism can be true because it assumes that we are capable of performing meritious acts without God. It says in Romans 3 that there are none who are righteous, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. All we do is sinfully motivated and therefore deserve God's just punishment. All good works that we do is always from God. And consequently it is impossible to perform any independently meritious act that is carried out by man acting in some sense apart from God that would put God in our debt. Therefore, the act of choosing is something that we do and not something that God does. And as we know, there is nothing that we can do to contribute anything to our own salvation.

 

[Buttermilk]

They are most definitely not the same. To say that one chooses God is falling victim to what is known as pelaginsim which is the idea that we actually contribute anything to our own salvation. And going through the strain of choosing God is doing and therefore puts a prerequisite on salvation. In fact, when saying that we choose, we are lowering the cost of salvation to such an obscure amount. If there is to be error, then the lesser error is on those who believe that there must be works. High, mighty, perfect, and multiple works that we must do in order to obtain eternal life. They place the cost of salvation as high and nigh unobtainable. But, no form of pelaginism can be true because it assumes that we are capable of performing meritious acts without God. It says in Romans 3 that there are none who are righteous, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. All we do is sinfully motivated and therefore deserve God's just punishment. All good works that we do is always from God. And consequently it is impossible to perform any independently meritious act that is carried out by man acting in some sense apart from God that would put God in our debt. Therefore, the act of choosing is something that we do and not something that God does. And as we know, there is nothing that we can do to contribute anything to our own salvation.

As per your post (no. 53) you are contradicting yourself yet again. You say that people can reject God's gift - therefore they are choosing to reject God's gift. There must therefore be a converse that you can choose to accept God's gift.

 

[paperneck]

i understand your frustration with the answers you've been provided, i infact stopped reading them after the second page so there is a chance that someone may have say what i'm going to say. sorry if that is the case.

your question is valid- you are seeking the orgin of all things. this is how most people begin to consider whether or not there is a god. you want to be sure that god exists the same way you are sure of gravity, and it's only natural to want that.

this is where i think i will differ from the other memebers of the board. i suppose they've given you history lessons, and they've given lectures in the concept of faith.

let me tell you this much, the more you turn god into a concept the further you will be from him.

you're right about the bible. it's just a book. it's god in a box. it confines him into words and pages. the bible is a very passive. it never grows. but also understand that the bible is not the be all end all in the world of god. it is only the begining. or perhaps simply a turning point. it is the crux.

this question you are asking demonstrates to me that your understanding of god is conceptual, and therefore to you christ and the bible are just another set of concepts that you can juggle and debate.

if my words have been worth anything thus far then let me guide you further. in order to understand god you must first attempt to eliminate any prior thoughts you might have. deny all your expectations. if you can honestly manage this then you may soon submit to the world that surrounds you. you might submit to the natural order of things. you might submit that no matter how you try you cannot change math. you cannot alter physics. the universe is set and while we don't understand it we are capable of finding harmony in it if only we can give up the concepts we hold most high.

we have to give up our understanding of god. we have to give up our understanding of ourselves. infact we have to admit that we are helpless in the matter of both of them.

then it is possible for a man to realize when the terror is gone that harmony not only remains, but has always been. he will see that it always will be. he will find something so tremendous he can think of no other name to call it but god.

now when we find god we realize we can not fathom what he is, because he is vast beyond eternity, even eternity we can't hold on to.

in harmony with god we learn to trust, that despite the best and worst of events, that everything is for a reason.

we are at his will, and so we might wonder what the orgin is of the god we have found, small as we are we may ask if it his will for us to know. we may ask that we follow the path he intends for us to take.

now if jesus was god, and the christians are right, he ought to want you to come to know him. He ought to want you to know it was him all along.

this is where i differ from other christians.

god isn't dumb. jesus isn't dumb. they know why you're confused, and they know for the most part it isn't your fault. if you had faith in god on a whim it would be like getting married to your first crush. it would be too fickle. god knows that. God will guide you and move you in ways you wouldn't think. you know him and you have always known him.

if you trust him he will guide you to exactly where you belong.

never be afraid. never let anyone else tell you where you ought to end up. that is God's will. not there's.

 

[paperneck]

the c.s. lewis argument about god loving us so much he gave us free will is pretty much garbage.

a man of logic can not say god gave us freedom to choose him, like we choose what we want to eat. that is childs arguement.

likewise a man cannot say that god gave us free will to choose him, yet did not give us the free will to choose not to sin, because we are all guilty of sin.

it is more true that a man can decide not to sin than a man can decide not believe in god.

our beliefs are shaped, not chosen.

we don't decide to believe in god, we decide to try and discover god. we try to discover truth.

this is how christ will reveal himself.
this is why christ tells us not to blasphemize the holy spirt.
this is why christ is the light.
this is why christ told us to hear not with our ears
this is why christ told us to give up everything and follow him.


let us give up Jesus the name, so we might know Jesus as God. let us hear when he calls.

 

[Buttermilk]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses paperneck

 

[CVL]

I find it strange when God is refered to as an individual. There's a commandment that addresses that. God is formless, shapeless, like water. You put God into a cup, God becomes the cup. You put God into a teapot, God becomes the teapot.