Who believes we are in the latter days and that the Rapture will happen in our lifetime?

[YJM]

Hello RT.
Commentaries on Revelation are as the sand of the sea..............

Kingdom Bible Studies Table of Contents

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series Part 1

The mark of the beast. Armageddon. The Four Horsemen. The false prophet. Babylon the great. Falling stars, stinging locusts, and giant hailstones. The seven last plagues. The bottomless pit. The lake of fire. These images of terror and catastrophe from the book of Revelation have greatly influenced the thinking of millions of Christians through the ages. Even the secular press uses images such as "Armageddon" and "four horsemen of the Apocalypse" to describe calamities in our world. Despite 1900 years of fascination with the book of Revelation, John’s letter to the seven Churches of Asia continues to be misunderstood. And badly misinterpreted!

One misconception shared by some is that the Revelation has nothing of importance to say to us. It’s considered to be merely a bizarre piece of first-century writing with no relevance for today. Another wrong idea is that the Revelation is a code book describing a specific outline of history written in advance. Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years. Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world. The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed. This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook. Other people’s interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it’s all going to pan out in the end! Beloved brethren, the fact is, it’s not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!

Through the years I have ministered the Word in Bible studies, seminars, and church services of various types. When there has been a question and answer session, or when opportunity was granted for people to request teaching along a particular line, the most often requested subject has been — THE BOOK OF REVELATION!

I have met people who were babes in Christ, carnal Christians whose lives were a mess, they had incredible problems and needs, including deliverance, and instead of prayer or counsel or messages that would help them overcome and grow up in Christ, they wanted me to teach them the book of Revelation! "Yeah, brother, that’s for me, lay it on me, I want the book of Revelation!

In retrospect, in the early days of my walk in God, my desire was no different. I was young, both naturally and spiritually. I knew little about the word of God or the purposes of God, but a call was in my heart. Being unlearned and immature, my very first dream was that I wanted to be a "prophecy" teacher. I imagined that I would be able to so eloquently expound the mysteries of the book of Revelation that great crowds would flock to hear me teach. After all, where do you start when you’re brilliant and young in the Lord! Thank God, very few of those who read these lines had to suffer through some of the things I taught out of the book of Revelation! The old adage was surely fulfilled, "Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread." Today it seems to me that the dumber a person is spiritually, the more determined they are to teach the book of Revelation! Those who know nothing are convinced that they know everything, and the first place they head is for deep water. There are depths in God, and heights of revelation and reality far beyond anything that the carnal mind can conceive. The reason people who are spiritually illiterate jump into it with such gusto, and people who have some idea of the majesty and meaning of its message are more hesitant, is because the book of Revelation is the most dynamic, powerful, awesome, devastating book of the Bible! Those who have caught glimpses into the transcendent glories of its deepest mysteries often shy away from it in the light of its loftiness and eminence. What Christians are normally exposed to are the radio and television preachers, the "good ol’ boys of religion" who think they know all about it and parrot and elaborate on all the absurdities they have been taught by their teachers.

Today, many Christians are confused. They are tossed too and fro with every new book that hits the market or every new fad end-time scheme introduced by some celebrity preacher. The popularity of the Revelation today is due to man’s insatiable curiosity regarding the future, the interest in the unknown tomorrow, which characterizes the restless human soul. To claim that in the pages of the Revelation we can see the signs of the present times and thus predict the tomorrows; to pull back the veil and claim to lay bare the future is to attract an audience, for that is the nature of man — fascination with the future! And that is the thrust of the scores of books always appearing, almost all of them claiming to be able to unravel and accurately predict the great world events about to unfold. Man reveres the past, but he is intoxicated by the heady wine of prophecy. The very claim, then, of these many books — that they can reveal to us things which are soon to come — helps to explain the popularity of those books on the Revelation.

The most popular of the apocalyptic entrepreneurs undoubtedly is Hal Lindsey, the author of the sensationalist book The Late Great Planet Earth and other more recent titles. His combination of literalist biblical interpretation and outright scare tactics have resulted in gaining him an extremely wide readership. But — his predictions have continually needed readjustment in the light of deadlines which have come and gone without fulfillment! Also, according to the February/March 1980 "special report to the members of the 700 Club," entitled "Pat Robertson’s Perspective," the beast of Revelation was to have been the Soviet Union, which he believed was about to attack Israel "to gain unrestricted access to Middle East oil plus a land bridge to the mineral wealth of Africa.".........................
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I have no idea what you're saying here at all, too much noise. Can you say it in a couple of sentences instead of text walls?

Thanks

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have no idea what you're saying here at all, too much noise. Can you say it in a couple of sentences instead of text walls?

Thanks

Have you ever studied the book of Revelation? I have a plethora of threads on Daniel, the Olivet Discourse and Revelation if you are interested. I believe much of Daniel, the Olivet Discourse and Revelation are fulfilled............

https://www.christianforums.com/members/littlelambofjesus.376868/

 

[YJM]

Have you ever studied the book of Revelation? I have a plethora of threads on Daniel, the Olivet Discourse and Revelation if you are interested. I believe much of Daniel, the Olivet Discourse and Revelation are fulfilled............

https://www.christianforums.com/members/littlelambofjesus.376868/

Yes I've spent 20 years studying it and I'm really clear on things thanks - just couldn't make out what you were trying to say

 

[Lost4words]

You should be able to tell of you are if God....that is on you, isn't it ? I can tell i 5 minutes if something is of God or not, 30 years ago it might have been more difficult, but I eventually understood someone like Armstrong was not of God, and it sharpened my sword whereas today, I can tell almost instantly if something is of the Spirit or not. I have been a preacher over 33 years, I understand the end times, it was/is my calling. I can explain the whole book in one simple post. Can you grasp it is the only question. I will let you worry about that, I can't help you see the things of the Spirit brother.

Revelation Decoded: Explained in "simple form".

Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter: { Jesus Glorified, the Seven Churches and the coming Tribulation Events }

In verse one we are told that God gave Jesus these things to show unto his servants, "things which must SHORTLY come to pass" !! This verse confuses many right off the bat, they say all Revelation must therefore be in the past, and all the Seals have been opened. Have no fear, they just needed to study more, they are reading a bad translation. The word "SHORTLY" has two Greek words behind it in Strong's Concordance, the words are {EN} and {TACHOS}, the word EN means a fixed time and place [in the future]. The word TACHOS means speedily or in haste {it is where we get the English word tachometer from}. So in essence Jesus is saying at a predetermined point in time {which only the Father knows} I will come in haste, or speedily, when I return at the Second Coming.

John saw Jesus in all his Glory, and described it as such, thus Jesus was the things which he had seen. The things which are of course were the Seven Churches. The things that will be hereafter are of course the coming Tribulation after the Rapture of the Church, in chapters 4-22.

Rev. 1 the Glorious Christ Revealed for all to see.

Rev. 2 and 3, the Seven Churches are given things they are doing properly, and also told about things they need to work on, they are a "Type" of the Church Age" in general.

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Raptured Church in Heaven, we see the Elders of the Church in Heaven wearing White. The 24 Elders are the Church. The reasons are many, I will list them below:

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The Rewards promised to the Seven Churches are given unto the 24 Elders in Rev. 4:4.

* A Crown - ( Rev. 2:10, 3:11, 4:4 and 4:10 )

* A Throne - ( Rev. 3:21 and 4:4 )

* A White Robe - ( Rev. 3:4-5 and Rev. 4:4 )

As per the 24 Elders meaning ? or why 24 Elders !! Well this fits 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 where we are told there are 24 orders of priests.

So the Church is in Heaven before the Seals are opened, thus the Rapture happens before the Seals are opened !! John saw them in Rev. chapters 4 and 5, the Elders are not in Heaven having marred the Lamb without the Church also being there, there is just ONE MARRIAGE !!

So the Church is shown in heaven, raptured before the Seals have been broken in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9 where they sing a song of the Redeemed. Angels don't need to be redeemed !!

In Rev. 6 we see the Seals {Wrath of the Lamb} being opened. The Anti-Christ is allowed to go forth Conquering. He takes Peace from the earth {Dan. 8:25, 9:27, 11:40-43} as the Red horse, his wars bring famine as the Black horse and of course he brings death and the grave via war and sickness thus the Pale Green horse. These deaths are of course many, but not the Raptured Church, we are in Heaven, these are the deaths of all that refuse to worship this man as God, the Muslims are the vast majority of these deaths {Rev.17:16} as per the Harlot being judged. But it comes to pass right off the bat, in Rev. 6, the Beast must subvert all other religions to start with, thus he will chase Israel into the wilderness, he will Martyr the Gentiles who have accepted Christ {5th Seal}, Rev. 12:17, and he will destroy all religions and appoint a BEAST over Religion, the False Prophet. The 2nd Beast of Rev. 13 who comes out of the land/earth {Israel}.

The First Beast of course is a Gentile Geo-political leader from Europe, born in Greece. The Two-witnesses of Rev. 11 are already preaching repentance by the time the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region, that is why some of the Jews {1/3} fled Judea just before the Beast goes forth Conquering. The 6th Seal is opened and mankind finally understand they are in the Lamb's Wrath {God's Wrath via the Lamb who opens the Seals}. These first Four Seals hit very fast, the Jews are fleeing Judea, then we get the 6th Seal that announces supernaturally, you are in God's Wrath, so mankind finally understand that the Anti-Christ represents the Four Horseman and that they have been in God's Wrath since the Anti-Christ or Little Horn went forth Conquering thereby becoming THE BEAST !!

In Rev. 7 Just before Jesus opens the 7th Seal in Rev. 8, which will bring destruction to Babylon {this whole world} he tells his Angels to hold off until Israel {144,000} are protected in the Petra/Bozrah Mountain area, the 144,000 is a Metaphor for ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew. Israel as a Nation is preserved/saved, but only 1/3 of the Jews are saved/repent, 2/3 perish. We then are shown the Church in Heaven one last time in Rev. 7:9-17, they are said to have come out of the Great Tribulation, and everyone demands this to mean the Greatest Ever Troubles for Jacob, but it really means the 2000 some odd year Church Age Period, which is GREATER than the 7 year period of Jacob's troubles as in 2000>7. Jesus told us we were to have continual tribulation, so the 2000 some odd year Church Age was no doubt the Greatest Period of troubles, and that is what John was referring to, the Martyrs under the Altar are specifically told they must wait until their fellow brothers die in just the like manner as they did, so they must wait until the Beasts 42 month rule is over before they can rule with Christ {see Rev. 20:4} for 1000 years on earth.

In Rev. 8, after the Jews are protected in the Petra region, God unleashes His fury on Babylon {see Rev. 18} which God sees as Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth, Satan is cast down to earth, Apollyon is released via the coming 1st Woe. The Two-witnesses are praying down these plagues no doubt, this is why the world hates them. All the grasses in all the world are burned up, as are a 1/3 of all the trees in the whole world, that is a whole lotta smoke in the air !! A 1/3 part of the Seas are turned to blood, 1/3 of the Sea Creatures die, 1/3 of the ships are Destroyed, and 1/3 of all the drinking waters are poisoned. A 1/3 part of the sun, moon and stars give not their light, one has to think all the smoke is blocking out the sun, moon and stars. Then an Angel announces there are THREE WOES LEFT, and the last three Trumpets that are yet to sound will indeed be the coming Three Woes.

In Rev. 9 we see Woe #1 and Woe #2. Apollyon and his hordes of Demons are released from the bottomless pit in Woe #1, thus the world {Babylon} is become a Habitation of Devils {see Rev. 18}. They maim mankind but can not kill them. In Woe #2 we see an Angelic Army of God {200 Million} which brings plagues against Mankind where 1.5 Billion people are killed. We see the 2nd Woe repeated in Rev. 11, but it's the same Woe, Rev. 11 is not a REAL TIME EVENT, it's a Parenthetical Citation or a set-a-side chapter which speaks about other things that happened in the Judgement chapters besides the Seal, Trumpet or Vial Judgment's per se.

Rev. 10 is a flash forward to the end.

Rev. 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are Parenthetical Citations, they are not a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation.

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses ministry, it seems to start 75 days before the Beast comes to power and they seem to die about 75 days before the Beast dies. They preach repentance to the Jews for 1260 days. This happens from 75 days before the Beast comes to power until 75 days before the Beast is killed/destroyed by Jesus at the 7th Vial. When the 7th Trumpet sounds in Rev. chapter 11, the Two-witnesses are already dead, this means they actually put forth this prayer unto God before they died. The 7th Trumpet is nothing more than all 7 Vials Combined. This is why it says Babylon is Fallen. The 7th Trumpet is the 3rd Woe !!

Rev. 12 and 13 both start of course in Rev. ch. 6 , in the Middle of the Week. One shows the Beast chasing Israel into the Wilderness and the other shows the Beast ruling for 42 months.

Rev. 14 is all about three specific Harvests, the Church is Raptured in verse 14, the Wheat {144,000} grows with the Wicked Tares until the end !! Jesus gathers the Wheat into his barn, whilst bundling the Wicked Tares together to be burned at a later date. {Second Death}. This chapter thus covers the full 7 years in total.

Rev. 15&16 are about the last 7 Vials, but they come forth from the Last/7th Trumpet, and thus the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe !! Jesus takes over in Rev. 16:19 and God sees the Nations he defeats as Babylon, and Vial #6 tells us who these Nations are, the Kings of the East, and the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD, so Babylon = the Whole World in God's eyes. This is the End of Babylon, or Satan's Rule on earth, Jesus takes over here, Babylon has fallen the Angel says IT IS DONE !! This of course ends the world as we know it. Thus Rev. 17 and 18 have to be about Events that have already come to pass, just as I have already asserted.

Rev. 17 is the Judgment of the Harlot. All False Religion is Judged here. In the end she is killed off by the Kings in League with the Beast starting at the midway point, in Rev. 6, the Beast demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD, thus the Kings kill off Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and all religions. The Harlot {False Religions} had been co-mingled with Babylon {False/Beast Governments} since the beginning, she is the mother of harlots, she is an abomination, and she was a Mystery until God explained who she was. She was co-mingled with Babylon !!

Rev. 18 is the other side of the two sided coin. The Harlot RIDES the Beast !! Babylon is the Whole World under the rule of Satan, Babel means confusion, all men that follow Satan by definition are CONFUSED no doubt. So all those that fight for Satan against God at Armageddon are seen as Babylon the Great !! And thus God gives them the winepress of His Wrath {Rev. 16:19}. God calls Israel to come out of Babylon in verse 4, lest she {Israel} receives of her {Babylon/Worlds} Plagues. Babylon or the Worlds Merchants are dismayed that her COMMERCE is destroyed, but of course that is what the Plagues of God were designed to do !! The Trees, Seas and the Earth are all hit with fires and plagues, the 2nd Woe kills 1.5 Billion people, the Anti-Christ/Beast kills 2 Billion people. Of course this hurts Babylons {WHOLE WORLDS} economy. In ONE HOUR judgment comes on Babylon, well the Kings rule with the Beast for ONE HOUR also {42 Months just as Rev. 17:12 says, the Kings have power with the Beast for ONE HOUR which = 42 Months}. Rev. 18 is the Whole World getting hit with God's Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments, it starts in Rev. 6, and runs through Rev. 16, whereas the Harlot is killed off in Rev. ch. 6 to begin with, then she is replaced by the False Prophet Religious Beast.

Rev. 19 is the Church going to Heaven, readying herself to become Christs Bride, Marrying the Lamb, then returning to earth with Jesus on White horses {as Conquerors}, where we have our Marriage Supper {Armageddon}. This chapter also lasts the full 7 years, thus it is also not a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation.

Rev. 20, is the Judgment Seat, Rev. 21 and 22 are the everafter and the New Jerusalem.

Interpretation. All down to interpretation.

There are many so called 'end times' experts on these forums. Each claiming that their 'interpretation' is 'the' correct one. Every week we have a new 'expert'.

Revelation is the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. 'Vastly' misinterpreted.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Lost4words said: ↑
So who is right? You or the other people who claim what you claim? So many people come out with different versions of what you say happened to you. Not everyone can be right can they?

You should be able to tell of you are if God....that is on you, isn't it ? I can tell i 5 minutes if something is of God or not, 30 years ago it might have been more difficult, but I eventually understood someone like Armstrong was not of God, and it sharpened my sword whereas today, I can tell almost instantly if something is of the Spirit or not. I have been a preacher over 33 years, I understand the end times, it was/is my calling. I can explain the whole book in one simple post. Can you grasp it is the only question. I will let you worry about that, I can't help you see the things of the Spirit brother.

Revelation Decoded: Explained in "simple form"..............

Interpretation. All down to interpretation.
There are many so called 'end times' experts on these forums. Each claiming that their 'interpretation' is 'the' correct one. Every week we have a new 'expert'.
Revelation is the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. 'Vastly' misinterpreted.

Yes.
As are some of the parables of Jesus.

This "COVENANTLE" parable in Luke 16 is my largest study of the NT [I have a plethora of threads on that parable].

Eternal concious torment Luke 16's "Rich Man and Lazarus" Parable And HELL

LUKE 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day." (NKJV)

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

"purple fine linen" occurs 103 times in 34 verses............2 verses in Revelation

Revelation 17:4
And the Woman was having been arrayed with purple and scarlet/crimson<2847> and gilded<5558> to gold, and precious<5093 stone, and pearls<3135>, having a golden Cup in Her hand, replete of abominations and uncleanness<169> of Her whoredom,

Revelation 18:7 ‘As much as She glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be giving to Her torment<929> and sorrow<3997>. That in Her heart She is saying: 'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I am being, and sorrow not no I shall seeing.'
12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16] and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble

16 and saying, Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with fine linen and purple,<4210> [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12]
and scarlet, and have been gilded in gold and precious stone and pearls, That to one hour was desolated<2049> the so much riches.
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Eternal concious torment Luke 16's "Rich Man and Lazarus" Parable And HELL

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

THE PARABLE

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible.
Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave? It is strenuously denied by most evangelists that this story, as told by Christ, could be a parable. They hold that this is not a parable because it starts out in narrative form. It is argued, because it reads, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day,” that Christ is speaking here of an actual incident that took place. But in the parable of the prodigal son, in the fifteenth chapter of Luke, the narrative introduction is found also, for it says, “A certain man had two sons...” Yet it is generally conceded that the story of the prodigal son is a parable and all the fundamentalist preachers love to preach from its beautiful figures, thus applying it as a parable........
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Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity.

Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching.

Those who insist that this is not a parable but a true, literal story Yeshua told to describe the condition of the lost in hell must overlook several facts to arrive at that conclusion. First, Yeshua the Messiah never accuses the rich man of any sin. He is simply portrayed as a wealthy man who lived the good life. Furthermore, Lazarus is never proclaimed to be a righteous man. He is just one who had the misfortune to be poor and unable to care for himself. If this story is literal, then the logical implication is that all the rich are destined to burn in hell, while all the homeless and destitute will be saved. Does anyone believe this to be the case?

 

[Douggg]

The Anti-Christ will be an Atheist ad will DESTROY Islam

How can the person be an Atheist, which claim there is no God, and claim to be God ?

 

[Douggg]

You need to study what Islam teaches about THEIR Messiah, and THEIR antichrist, and compare it with what scripture teaches about OUR Messiah and antichrist.

Once you do that, you will get it. It's the greatest deception that will cause most to fall away,

Blessings!

Muslims believe that Jesus is the messiah, but the way they define messiah is not the same as Christians - that is the Savior to our souls.

What the bible also teaches about our messiah is that Christ is the King of Israel.

In John 12:12-15, Jesus was hailed as the King of Israel, coming in the name of the Lord.

Later, after being rejected by the Jews to be their the King of Israel, as he was being crucified, Jesus was mocked; but the passage makes it clear that "Christ" is associated as
being the King of Israel.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The Anti-Christ will be someone who will be anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet and be in that role for around three years, before betraying the Jews. Which will end his time in that role.

To become the King of Israel, the person must be a Jew and his religion Judaism in order for the Jews to embrace him thinking he is their messiah (a different concept from being the Savior of their souls) King of Israel.

Which the mahdi and the pope and a gentile - and other theories don't fit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Muslims believe that Jesus is the messiah, but the way they define messiah is not the same as Christians - that is the Savior to our souls.

At least they revere both Jesus as a great Prophet/Messiah sent to the Jews and they also believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. [tho their story revolves around Hagar and Ishmael]. The Jews are still waiting on their own Messiah and have no concept of a virgin birth of Him.........

Jesus in Islam

sayed_333 said: ↑

The Religion of Islam

The Islamic view of Jesus lies between two extremes. The Jews, who rejected Jesus as a prophet, called him an imposter, while the Christians, on the other hand, considered him to be the son of God and worship him as such. Islam considers Jesus to be one of the greatest and most forbearing of prophets, in addition to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad, peace be upon them. Jesus is also considered to be the Messiah as well. This is in conformity with the Islamic view of the Oneness of God, the Oneness of Divine guidance, and the complementary role of the subsequent mission of God’s messengers.

The message of God to humanity, which is to worship God and God alone and to live according to His instruction, was revealed to Adam (peace be upon him), who passed it on to his children. All the subsequent revelations to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and, finally, Muhammad are in conformity with that message. Thus, Islam views any contradictions among revealed religions as man-made elements introduced into these religions. The position of Jesus in the three major creeds- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam- is not an exception.

Although the Quran does not present a detailed life-story of Jesus, it highlights the important aspects of his birth, his mission, his ascension to heaven. It also passes judgment on the Christian and Jewish beliefs concerning him. We will look at some of the truths which God revealed about Jesus in the Quran

 

[Douggg]

Revelation is the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. 'Vastly' misinterpreted.

Agreed.

But I will narrow it down to three most common errors in eschatology...

1. the arch villain of the end times will not be a Jew.
2. referring to the person universally as the Antichrist
3. disassociating the person from being of the Roman Empire end times as his kingdom.

 

[Tutorman]

Revelation is the most misinterpreted book in the Bible. 'Vastly' misinterpreted.

Exactly. Revelation is not even what most modern thinks it is.

 

[Douggg]

The Jews are still waiting on their own Messiah.........

Agreed. And critical to end times events.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

YJM said: ↑
You need to study what Islam teaches about THEIR Messiah, and THEIR antichrist, and compare it with what scripture teaches about OUR Messiah and antichrist.

Once you do that, you will get it. It's the greatest deception that will cause most to fall away,

Blessings!

Douggg said: ↑
Muslims believe that Jesus is the messiah, but the way they define messiah is not the same as Christians - that is the Savior to our souls.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
At least they revere both Jesus as a great Prophet/Messiah sent to the Jews and they also believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. [tho their story revolves around Hagar and Ishmael]. The Jews are still waiting on their own Messiah and have no concept of a virgin birth of Him........

Agreed. And critical to end times events.

Only to zionist dispensationalist futurists...........

 

[Tone]

I believe that it is only the believers, filled with the Holy Spirit who are providing the restraint that stops the out of control development of evil

Any Scriptural support for this? Thanks.

 

[Tone]

You need to study what Islam teaches about THEIR Messiah, and THEIR antichrist, and compare it with what scripture teaches about OUR Messiah and antichrist.

Once you do that, you will get it. It's the greatest deception that will cause most to fall away,

Can you provide a quick rundown? Thanks.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

YJM said: ↑
You need to study what Islam teaches about THEIR Messiah, and THEIR antichrist, and compare it with what scripture teaches about OUR Messiah and antichrist.

Once you do that, you will get it. It's the greatest deception that will cause most to fall away,

Can you provide a quick rundown? Thanks.

Just do an internet search...........

Al-Masih ad-Dajjal - Wikipedia

Hadith
According to hadith, Prophet Muhammad prophesied that the Masih ad-Dajjal would be the last of a series of thirty Dajjal or "deceivers".[3]

• Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

Note: reference does not match the quoted text.

Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape.[4]

Ali was reported to have said:

His right eye will be punctured, and his left eye would be raised to his forehead and will be sparkling like a star. Only the believers will be able to read the word "Kafir" [disbeliever], inscribed in bold letters, on his forehead. There will be big mountains of smoke at both front and backsides of his caravan. People will anticipate food within those mountains, during the severe famine. All rivers, falling in his way, will become dry and he will call upon people in a loud voice, "O my friends come to me! I am your lord who has made your limbs and given you sustenance."[5]

• Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

If he comes forth while I am among you I shall be the one who will dispute with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth when I am not among you, a man must dispute on his own behalf, and Allah will take my place in looking after every Muslim. Those of you who live up to his time should recite over him the opening verses of Surat al–Kahf, for they are your protection from his trial. We asked: How long will he remain on the earth? He replied: Forty days, one like a year, one like a month, one like a week, and rest of his days like yours. We asked: Messenger of Allah, will one day's prayer suffice us in this day which will be like a year? He replied: No, you must make an estimate of its extent. Then prophet Isa son of Maryam will descend at the white minaret to the east of Damascus. He will then catch him up at the gate of Ludd and kill him.[6]

• Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).[7]

Signs of coming of Al-Masih ad-Dajjal
Hadith attributed to Prophet Muhammad give many signs of the appearance of the Dajjal who would travel the whole world entering every city except Mecca and Medina.[8][9] Prophet Muhammad exhorted his supporters to recite the first and last ten verses of Sura Al-Kahf (chapter 18 in the Qur'an), as protection from the trials and mischief of the Dajjal.[5][10] The following signs are ascribed to Ali in the coming of Dajjal:[5]

• People will stop offering the prayers
• Dishonesty will be the way of life
• Falsehood will become a virtue
• People will mortgage their faith for worldly gain
• Usury and bribery will become legitimate
• There will be acute famine at the time
• There will be no shame amongst people
• Many people will worship Satan
• There will be no respect for elderly people
• People will start killing each other without any reason

Signs of emergence
The following signs will occur just before emergence and these signs are mandatory condition for Dajjal to appear.

• Drying up of Sea of Galilee.
• When date-palm trees of Baisan stop bearing fruit.[11]
• Worship of Satan becomes common.
• The conquest of Constantinople (modern day Istanbul, Turkey) by the Islamic Caliphate.[7]

Signs post-emergence

• He will do miracles and yield resources (minerals, food) from land by his power.
• He will lay siege across the world except the Islamic holy cities (Makkah and Medina).
• He will alter the coastal tides and bring chilled winds across the Red Sea.
• He would be recognisable by a true believer of Islam (aka; a mumin).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Any Scriptural support for this? Thanks.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work. Only he who now hinders will hinder until he is taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:7).
The "he" who now hinders will hinder" speaks of the Christian believers, who, one day, will be taken out of the way in the Rapture, and then the wicked one, the AntiChrist will be revealed.

 

[Tone]

Just do an internet search...........

Al-Masih ad-Dajjal - Wikipedia

Hadith
According to hadith, Prophet Muhammad prophesied that the Masih ad-Dajjal would be the last of a series of thirty Dajjal or "deceivers".[3]

• Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

Note: reference does not match the quoted text.

Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape.[4]

Ali was reported to have said:

His right eye will be punctured, and his left eye would be raised to his forehead and will be sparkling like a star. Only the believers will be able to read the word "Kafir" [disbeliever], inscribed in bold letters, on his forehead. There will be big mountains of smoke at both front and backsides of his caravan. People will anticipate food within those mountains, during the severe famine. All rivers, falling in his way, will become dry and he will call upon people in a loud voice, "O my friends come to me! I am your lord who has made your limbs and given you sustenance."[5]

• Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

If he comes forth while I am among you I shall be the one who will dispute with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth when I am not among you, a man must dispute on his own behalf, and Allah will take my place in looking after every Muslim. Those of you who live up to his time should recite over him the opening verses of Surat al–Kahf, for they are your protection from his trial. We asked: How long will he remain on the earth? He replied: Forty days, one like a year, one like a month, one like a week, and rest of his days like yours. We asked: Messenger of Allah, will one day's prayer suffice us in this day which will be like a year? He replied: No, you must make an estimate of its extent. Then prophet Isa son of Maryam will descend at the white minaret to the east of Damascus. He will then catch him up at the gate of Ludd and kill him.[6]

• Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).[7]

Signs of coming of Al-Masih ad-Dajjal
Hadith attributed to Prophet Muhammad give many signs of the appearance of the Dajjal who would travel the whole world entering every city except Mecca and Medina.[8][9] Prophet Muhammad exhorted his supporters to recite the first and last ten verses of Sura Al-Kahf (chapter 18 in the Qur'an), as protection from the trials and mischief of the Dajjal.[5][10] The following signs are ascribed to Ali in the coming of Dajjal:[5]

• People will stop offering the prayers
• Dishonesty will be the way of life
• Falsehood will become a virtue
• People will mortgage their faith for worldly gain
• Usury and bribery will become legitimate
• There will be acute famine at the time
• There will be no shame amongst people
• Many people will worship Satan
• There will be no respect for elderly people
• People will start killing each other without any reason

Signs of emergence
The following signs will occur just before emergence and these signs are mandatory condition for Dajjal to appear.

• Drying up of Sea of Galilee.
• When date-palm trees of Baisan stop bearing fruit.[11]
• Worship of Satan becomes common.
• The conquest of Constantinople (modern day Istanbul, Turkey) by the Islamic Caliphate.[7]

Signs post-emergence

• He will do miracles and yield resources (minerals, food) from land by his power.
• He will lay siege across the world except the Islamic holy cities (Makkah and Medina).
• He will alter the coastal tides and bring chilled winds across the Red Sea.
• He would be recognisable by a true believer of Islam (aka; a mumin).

So you're saying that how they describe the antichrist is how the Scripture describes Christ?

 

[Tone]

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work. Only he who now hinders will hinder until he is taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:7).
The "he" who now hinders will hinder" speaks of the Christian believers, who, one day, will be taken out of the way in the Rapture, and then the wicked one, the AntiChrist will be revealed.

But, how did you make the interpretative jump...just from that verse alone? Just today, I heard a teacher saying just the opposite...that the hinderer or restrainer is holding back the wheat from bearing fruit. In other words, it is the tares that the enemy planted in the field that will be gathered and burned, so that the wheat will bear much fruit.

Matthew 13
"…29 ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.”’"

2 Thessalonians 2:3
"3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed."

The teacher says, "As long as he [son of perdition] is in the midst of us, like the tares among the wheat...looking like the wheat; then he can still kill, steal, and destroy. But there's gonna come a time when someone is going to remove him from us..."

 

[Tone]

This is how it reads in context^.

*That "letteth" is the same word as "withholdeth" (Katecho)

**

 

[Jehovah Tsaba University]

I don't fear as such - but Revelation and Matthew 24 specifically teaches me that most of Christendom will be deceived and that "he who endures to the end will be deceived". Christ told us what was ahead to prepare us - we need to take those warnings to heart, not be blasé

Blessings!

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I believe that many believers take Matthew 24 out of context and most especially because God is so intellectualized in Christendom today. We tend to live our faith in God by our actions, functions and habits of formal Christian worship and forget or don't even know that developing a personal relationship with the Father day after day in the manner, simplicity, and confidence of a child is really what the Father so desires.

That being stated, within the context of Matthew 24, if in our spirit we are new creations in Christ and are living that deep personal relationship with the Father daily in union with the Holy Spirit, then we cannot be deceived for we have the spirit of God within us.

Of course, Jesus is not referring to the possible deceptions of the flesh, because even Paul teaches us that we need to keep our flesh in check. Therefore, the deception that Jesus was addressing privately to the disciples since they were asking for the signs of the end and of his coming was for those that have not accepted him as Savior. Keep in mind, that during this conversation, they did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit yet and neither did they yet know or understand that Jesus was going to die. They as a Hebrew people were still believing in and hoping for a restoration of Israel in the form of King David's majesty. The more complete understanding of who Jesus is and his coming into the world didn't come about until Pentecost.

Since as Christians our newborn spirit cannot be deceived, yet our flesh can, we must be attentive to our spirit as it will not deceive us having been born of God. For those yet in the world who have not accepted Jesus, what a sad, scary and precarious state they must find themselves. In themselves they have no hope and can only find true peace in Christ Jesus.

Scripture is so rich that without the subtle gift of the Holy Spirit it is easy to read it merely intellectually and just on the surface, and possibly out of context.

We all continue to learn - praise and thank God.

 

[Jehovah Tsaba University]

Hello RT.
Commentaries on Revelation are as the sand of the sea..............

Kingdom Bible Studies Table of Contents

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series Part 1

The mark of the beast. Armageddon. The Four Horsemen. The false prophet. Babylon the great. Falling stars, stinging locusts, and giant hailstones. The seven last plagues. The bottomless pit. The lake of fire. These images of terror and catastrophe from the book of Revelation have greatly influenced the thinking of millions of Christians through the ages. Even the secular press uses images such as "Armageddon" and "four horsemen of the Apocalypse" to describe calamities in our world. Despite 1900 years of fascination with the book of Revelation, John’s letter to the seven Churches of Asia continues to be misunderstood. And badly misinterpreted!

One misconception shared by some is that the Revelation has nothing of importance to say to us. It’s considered to be merely a bizarre piece of first-century writing with no relevance for today. Another wrong idea is that the Revelation is a code book describing a specific outline of history written in advance. Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years. Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world. The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed. This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook. Other people’s interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it’s all going to pan out in the end! Beloved brethren, the fact is, it’s not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!

Through the years I have ministered the Word in Bible studies, seminars, and church services of various types. When there has been a question and answer session, or when opportunity was granted for people to request teaching along a particular line, the most often requested subject has been — THE BOOK OF REVELATION!

I have met people who were babes in Christ, carnal Christians whose lives were a mess, they had incredible problems and needs, including deliverance, and instead of prayer or counsel or messages that would help them overcome and grow up in Christ, they wanted me to teach them the book of Revelation! "Yeah, brother, that’s for me, lay it on me, I want the book of Revelation!

In retrospect, in the early days of my walk in God, my desire was no different. I was young, both naturally and spiritually. I knew little about the word of God or the purposes of God, but a call was in my heart. Being unlearned and immature, my very first dream was that I wanted to be a "prophecy" teacher. I imagined that I would be able to so eloquently expound the mysteries of the book of Revelation that great crowds would flock to hear me teach. After all, where do you start when you’re brilliant and young in the Lord! Thank God, very few of those who read these lines had to suffer through some of the things I taught out of the book of Revelation! The old adage was surely fulfilled, "Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread." Today it seems to me that the dumber a person is spiritually, the more determined they are to teach the book of Revelation! Those who know nothing are convinced that they know everything, and the first place they head is for deep water. There are depths in God, and heights of revelation and reality far beyond anything that the carnal mind can conceive. The reason people who are spiritually illiterate jump into it with such gusto, and people who have some idea of the majesty and meaning of its message are more hesitant, is because the book of Revelation is the most dynamic, powerful, awesome, devastating book of the Bible! Those who have caught glimpses into the transcendent glories of its deepest mysteries often shy away from it in the light of its loftiness and eminence. What Christians are normally exposed to are the radio and television preachers, the "good ol’ boys of religion" who think they know all about it and parrot and elaborate on all the absurdities they have been taught by their teachers.

Today, many Christians are confused. They are tossed too and fro with every new book that hits the market or every new fad end-time scheme introduced by some celebrity preacher. The popularity of the Revelation today is due to man’s insatiable curiosity regarding the future, the interest in the unknown tomorrow, which characterizes the restless human soul. To claim that in the pages of the Revelation we can see the signs of the present times and thus predict the tomorrows; to pull back the veil and claim to lay bare the future is to attract an audience, for that is the nature of man — fascination with the future! And that is the thrust of the scores of books always appearing, almost all of them claiming to be able to unravel and accurately predict the great world events about to unfold. Man reveres the past, but he is intoxicated by the heady wine of prophecy. The very claim, then, of these many books — that they can reveal to us things which are soon to come — helps to explain the popularity of those books on the Revelation.

The most popular of the apocalyptic entrepreneurs undoubtedly is Hal Lindsey, the author of the sensationalist book The Late Great Planet Earth and other more recent titles. His combination of literalist biblical interpretation and outright scare tactics have resulted in gaining him an extremely wide readership. But — his predictions have continually needed readjustment in the light of deadlines which have come and gone without fulfillment! Also, according to the February/March 1980 "special report to the members of the 700 Club," entitled "Pat Robertson’s Perspective," the beast of Revelation was to have been the Soviet Union, which he believed was about to attack Israel "to gain unrestricted access to Middle East oil plus a land bridge to the mineral wealth of Africa.".........................
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Amen, LittleLambofJesus. I am personally so pleased and edified by these conversations of expressions of faith. Hopefully, everyone here, and it appears to be so, is here legitimately with the sincere desire to learn and deepen their faith. We undoubtedly have made and will make mistakes along the way. What matters most is that a true sense of humility governs us, a formidable desire for truth to prevail, and that we ensue peace always.

God love you and blessings to you in abundance!