White people are poor because of their culture

[NotreDame]

But I suspect I'd be naive.

No, I'm sorry but the poster expressed confusion as to why "inner city" would be equated with minority especially african american.

It is naive to assume that inner city isn't "dog whistle" rhetoric for black.

Even if I accept your assumption there is a general understanding in society the words "inner-city poor" refer to black people, I am not convinced this is true, you still have no point.

It's naive to assume Paul Ryan's was equivocating the terms of "inner-city" and "poor" with the word "black."

This is not a court of law so I don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what Paul was saying to his base, but in my 50 years on this planet I've seen a lot of such rhetoric.

You can't prove your claim about Paul Ryan at all at this point! Forget about the judiciary's burden of beyond a reasonable doubt, you have the more daunting problem of being able to prove it all under any burden of proof! Your "50 years on this planet I've seen a lot of such rhetoric" while edifying information does not show, by any standard, Paul Ryan was making a racist remark or referring to black people by his comment.

I can just as easily find someone who in their "75 years on this planet they've seen a lot of such rhetoric" and deduce Ryan was not making a racist remark. So your lengthy tenure of rhetoric listening is hardly compelling.

It's naivete to assume that Ryan didn't know full well what his base would take from this

Its naivete to assume specific and particular knowledge Ryan had regarding how the base would interpret his remarks and naivete to assume the base would construe his words in a particular manner. Once again, the pythia has returned! Hey, ancient Greece called, they want their pythia back!

But I suspect I'd be naive.

The problem with your position, at this precise moment, is it is ladened with speculation and assumptions about reality with few to non-existent facts in support.

 

[Bedford]

Take it and do with it what you will.

It makes as much sense to consider the political reason he chose inner-city, as opposed to a racial one.

Do you think a republican is going to say

"We have got this tailspin of culture, in our southern mountain folk in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work"


Do you think the republicans would like him dissing their voting base?

 

[iluvatar5150]

It makes as much sense to consider the political reason he chose inner-city, as opposed to a racial one.

Do you think a republican is going to say

"We have got this tailspin of culture, in our southern mountain folk in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work"


Do you think the republicans would like him dissing their voting base?

It's this, too - it's all of it. He points to the inner city as being particularly problematic, because his constituents likely aren't living in the inner city and don't identify with the people who do. Part of that demographic difference is political, part of it is racial, part of it is class, part of it is cultural.

 

[MikeCarra]

Even if I accept your assumption there is a general understanding in society the words "inner-city poor" refer to black people, I am not convinced this is true, you still have no point.

...
You can't prove your claim about Paul Ryan at all at this point!

Hey, whatever dude! If you think Paul Ryan speaking to a GOP base about social welfare issues and citing a racist source such as the co-author of the Bell Curve isn't talking race in "coded" language, then by all means, good for you!

I'm surprised but I understand the POV. It's a desperate hope that the rest of us are too stupid to see what is being discussed!

No problem!

Guess that is why Paul didn't say anything about poor rural areas.

Your "50 years on this planet I've seen a lot of such rhetoric" while edifying information does not show, by any standard, Paul Ryan was making a racist remark or referring to black people by his comment.

Of course not! It is wholly irrational that a guy who cites CHARLES MURRAY and who is an avatar of the current Republican party would ever even SAY anything that his base would EVER interpret in a racist light!

Maybe Paul was sleeping the last 30 years or so. He probably decided to help the GOP to garner more of the black vote by using language that has historically been almost EXCLUSIVELY used to mean black people and citing a controversial racist author to do this!

Who am I to question Paul's motives?

Of course it WOULD help if he were to have referred to southern rural poor, but the BIGGEST problem CLEARLY is the 'inner city'.

I can just as easily find someone who in their "75 years on this planet they've seen a lot of such rhetoric" and deduce Ryan was not making a racist remark.

Well, I guess so long as we aren't allowed to use a phrase's commonly interpreted meaning, eh?

Its naivete to assume specific and particular knowledge Ryan had regarding how the base would interpret his remarks

LOL. While urinating on my shoes make sure to explain to me why the "rain" is warm.

and naivete to assume the base would construe his words in a particular manner.

The problem with your position, at this precise moment, is it is ladened with speculation and assumptions about reality with few to non-existent facts in support.

LOL. Yeah right.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why do you suppose Ryan singled out the inner-city folk?

Per the studies I referenced in talking with StamperBen, in some larger inner-city areas, there is a higher concentration of people abusing the system.
(in some areas, it's bad enough that the federal government considering cutting welfare funding for the entire region)

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I think of it this way. People tend to think anything that references Detroit is referencing black people, because that's the dominant race there.

However, if I'm talking about statistics from Detroit, I'm not referencing black people, I'm referencing the statistics from Detroit.

I would almost venture to guess that someone who is going to infer that I'm talking about black people because I reference statistics from Detroit is actually the one holding the racist views.

 

[stamperben]

Per the studies I referenced in talking with StamperBen, in some larger inner-city areas, there is a higher concentration of people abusing the system.
(in some areas, it's bad enough that the federal government considering cutting welfare funding for the entire region)

So like I mentioned earlier, there aren't 2 and 3 generations of poor white folk in the mountains - or do they just not get the studies and ink? Is there not a drug problem, as huge as in any city, in the countryside of the Ozarks, for example?

 

[Bedford]

I think of it this way. People tend to think anything that references Detroit is referencing black people, because that's the dominant race there.

However, if I'm talking about statistics from Detroit, I'm not referencing black people, I'm referencing the statistics from Detroit.

I would almost venture to guess that someone who is going to infer that I'm talking about black people because I reference statistics from Detroit is actually the one holding the racist views.

82.7% of Detroit is black.

There is a reason why people would think you were describing blacks, and it has to do with percentages, not race.

Detroit (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Sad that you would accuse somebody of racism based on your statistics describing 8 out of 10 people in Detroit being black





statistics are based on people, not statistics.

 

[stamperben]

Some interesting numbers here about poverty by race or ethnicity.

The midwest in this map sure does indicate a major drug problem.

 

[keith99]

So like I mentioned earlier, there aren't 2 and 3 generations of poor white folk in the mountains - or do they just not get the studies and ink? Is there not a drug problem, as huge as in any city, in the countryside of the Ozarks, for example?

You are right, Appalachian poor goes back farther than most people can trace their roots. And the distrust (to an unhealthy degree) of those in power goes back to the home countries.

 

[NotreDame]

LOL. Yeah right.

Your post has no facts to support your opinion and is most appropritately characterized as a partisan, left-wing diatribe, AKA, leftwing bluster with no point.

Hey, whatever dude! If you think Paul Ryan speaking to a GOP base about social welfare issues and citing a racist source such as the co-author of the Bell Curve isn't talking race in "coded" language, then by all means, good for you!

This is the problem. Your default setting, along with too many other left-wingers in this country, is to assume the comment is covert language about race. The other problem is the complete lack of evidence to support your default setting assumption is no deterrent to your immediate knee-jerk, biased perception and biased understanding of what Paul Ryan said.

Your approach, along with too many other people, is why we can't have an intelligent dialogue on this issue. You, along with too many other people, are too busy resorting to your default settting of "race," a complete red herring to the issue, to actually discuss the issue.

Of course not! It is wholly irrational that a guy who cites CHARLES MURRAY and who is an avatar of the current Republican party would ever even SAY anything that his base would EVER interpret in a racist light!

Unadulterated irrationality!

Of course it WOULD help if he were to have referred to southern rural poor, but the BIGGEST problem CLEARLY is the 'inner city'.

Really? Unless he referenced some other category of poor people then he must be racist??? No way! This reasoning is certainly nothing short of being a non-sequitur. This is reasoning quite simply makes no sense. Yes, there are other categories of poor people to be mentioned but failure to do so does not demonstrate an intention, purpose, or desire to discuss black people or interject race into the analysis.

 

[NotreDame]

I think of it this way. People tend to think anything that references Detroit is referencing black people, because that's the dominant race there.

However, if I'm talking about statistics from Detroit, I'm not referencing black people, I'm referencing the statistics from Detroit.

I would almost venture to guess that someone who is going to infer that I'm talking about black people because I reference statistics from Detroit is actually the one holding the racist views.

Or their default setting is an immediate, visceral, knee jerk reaction to scream and allege "racism" or "race" or "black" when they see some terminology used. It is similar to Pavlov's Dogs. Some here see the word "inner-city" and "poor" used in conjunction and just like Pavlolv's Dogs they respond, without much thought, with the words of "racism" "racist" or "black."

 

[Bedford]

Or their default setting is an immediate, visceral, knee jerk reaction to scream and allege "racism" or "race" or "black" when they see some terminology used. It is similar to Pavlov's Dogs. Some here see the word "inner-city" and "poor" used in conjunction and just like Pavlolv's Dogs they respond, without much thought, with the words of "racism" "racist" or "black."

So you are calling people here dogs.


How very kind.

 

[Joykins]

I might be willing to accept that as an answer if I hadn't just read several other posts in other threads implying that Paul Ryan's racist because of his statements...

...we just know Ryan uses "inner city" because "ghetto" is considered a wee bit crass...

 

[keith99]

So you are calling people here dogs.


How very kind.

Seems someone rang your bell.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So like I mentioned earlier, there aren't 2 and 3 generations of poor white folk in the mountains - or do they just not get the studies and ink? Is there not a drug problem, as huge as in any city, in the countryside of the Ozarks, for example?

I suspect that the 2nd and 3rd generation poor in those areas have different cultural problems that lead to their situation, yet...still cultural problems that tend to persist from generation to generation.

While some can break the mold, the truth is that many cultural aspects of life are passed from parents to children (good or bad).

Look at something as simple as smoking. Children are ingrained with nonstop information about the dangers of it, the health risks, the costs, etc...

Yet, in this study by Purdue, there are some fascinating results...

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/rel...iblings,-parents-lifelong-smoking-habits.html

Now, all kids in the same public school are all being given the identical information, yet the outcomes of their decisions vastly differ based on the actions of their parents. I suspect we'd find similar results in the realm of drugs and alcohol as well...

Much like this bad habit can be handed down to the next generation, I would venture a guess that a habit like not working, collecting the government check, and then knowingly failing to meet the guidelines for it a behavioral trait that children can observe in their parents much like smoking as mentioned earlier.

For many things in life, the only thing that will trump culture is necessity.

If certain social problems are caused by culture, and you remove the necessity element that would be the driving factor in having someone break those habits of culture, you're allowing the negative cultural aspects to continue.

For example, if the habit is sitting on your butt and doing nothing, giving a check every month isn't going to break that habit. However, the necessity of food and housing will...because of the 80% of welfare recipients who are able to work, but fail to meet the guidelines...if that check stopped coming in and they got hungry, they'd be out there pounding the pavement looking for ways to make some money.

 

[Bedford]

Seems someone rang your bell.

lol


/SALIVATING

 

[ThatRobGuy]

...we just know Ryan uses "inner city" because "ghetto" is considered a wee bit crass...

Inner cities are where the highest concentrations of welfare abuse exist.
(it's also the areas where the welfare data is the most readily available)

 

[Joykins]

Inner cities are where the highest concentrations of welfare abuse exist.
(it's also the areas where the welfare data is the most readily available)

Poor white mountain folk, on the other hand, are just more spread out and it's hard to navigate to the, shall we say, "hollers" (in contrast to "inner city") to find out whether welfare is being abused there?

 

[Bedford]

Inner cities are where the highest concentrations of welfare abuse exist.
(it's also the areas where the welfare data is the most readily available)

Ryan never mentioned welfare abuse. Why have you inserted welfare abuse into the discussion?