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Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

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Phinehas2

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Colossians 3:5 "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. "
Thank you Jesus I am free to live as a new creation in you. Free form living as a sodomite or adulterer, free from living in greed and idolotry. Thank you Lord there is no such thing as a < staff edit > or adulterous Christian, that all people may be a new creation in you.
 
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Phinehas2

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2 Peter 2 “False Teachers and Their Destruction “
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.[c] 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature[d] and despise authority.

Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness.

17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[f]and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

Thank you Lord that your ways are life and your word is true so we may know what is wrong and what is your goodness.
 
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David Brider

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Then you must think God also created adulterers, no He didn’t...

Adulterers are people. Therefore God created them.

He created man and woman for a purpose and it’s the opposite purpose to homosexual.

That's as may be, but that doesn't change the fact that God created homosexual people. He may not have created them to be homosexual, but He created them nevertheless.

David.
 
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Phinehas2

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Dear David Brider,
Adulterers are people. Therefore God created them.
No He didnt as He created man and woman to be in faithful union. Matt 19. The sin entered through disobedience. Gen 3.
That's as may be, but that doesn't change the fact that God created homosexual people.
He didn't create homosexual people that fact tells you He didnt. He created man and woman for a purpose and it&#8217;s the opposite purpose to homosexual.
 
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OllieFranz

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Dear Stumpjumper,
Ok so you think the Bible as truth is arguable? I don&#8217;t think a Christian can think say the Bible isn&#8217;t true and that and I am a Christian

If you are going to post on a debate forum, you really need to understand the rules and language used.

Just as "If a, then b" is the English translation of the formal logic rule a --> b, the word "argument" is the English translation of "syllogism." Stumpjumper is not "arguing" against the Bible, he is merely examining the logic of your syllogism, or lack of one.

But as I said I am referring you to the Bible not my interpretation or exegesis, you are attributing the Bible passages to me. I dint write the Bible.

No, you didn't write it, and your interpretation of it is no more infallible than anyone else's. Less so if the logic of your position does not hold up.

Then you must think God also created adulterers, no He didn&#8217;t, nor did He create homosexuals.


Then who created them? You can argue that He did not create them with the purpose of them becoming adulterers, but you can't argue that He did not create them.

He created man and woman for a purpose and it&#8217;s the opposite purpose to homosexual. I am not denying God created man and woman, but you are in denial that He created them to be united.
No one has denied that His purpose for most people, is a heterosexual marriage. But that is not His purpose for all people. The Bible testifies that His purpose for some people is celibacy. T

You cherry pick with selective interpretation and eisegesis to form a falsehood.
Genesis 2 - &#8220;she shall be called 'woman, for she was taken out of man. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.&#8221;
Matthew 19 &#8211; &#8220;Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one.&#8221;
Its what the Bible says.

Yes, when a man and a woman marry, they become one flesh. Jesus said nothing, about a person choosing celibacy for the gospel to the Pharisees, but waited until they left to mention it the disciples. Becoming one flesh with a partner of the opposite sex is only one of the possible ways to align your life with God's plan. It is the one that the Pharisees asked about, and it is the one Jesus answered.

If you cant see what the creation accounts says about man and woman being created to be united, I don&#8217;t expect you would see anything about celibacy if it was there. Celibacy wasn&#8217;t a point raised by me.


Yes it was, indirectly, when you claimed that the Genesis verses about becoming one flesh are meant for everyone, when Jesus and Paul clearly disagree. If an exception is made for celibates, you cannot dismiss other claims for exception. Most of those claims may in the end prove false, but they much each be examined in light of scripture.

stumpjumper said:
Celibacy isn't mentioned either so that must also be a perversion as well, eh?

Phinehas2 said:

The NT teaching of Jesus Christ says it isn&#8217;t so why are you asking me. Read Matt 19. 1 Cor 7 etc.

Because, as I indicated above, you stated that God's plan is for everyone to become one flesh with a person of the opposite sex. Stumpjumper's question was rhetorical, and slightly sarcastic, and was intended to show that your statement disagrees with the very passages you just cited. Since you agree with us that they not only allow for but honor holy celibacy, then it must be your statement that everyone should marry a person of the opposite sex that is wrong.
 
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Angel4Truth

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Well now you are shifting goalposts.

God still created Liberace as a homosexual man.
God created him a man. His sexual orientation decision came much later.

Skipping your free-will Baptist (Arminianist) interpretation of God's relationship to humanity, that may all be well and good from your perspective and you're entitled to that opinion but I think that's still far from the scope of the OP.
Not free will baptist. God created man and woman. They werent sinners when created. We are talking about the genesis account so no - God didnt create homosexuals or murderers or liars or rapists or pedophiles or adulterers etc.. He created man and woman period. The OP is talking about the genesis account remember? Sin came later - man and woman were initially created without sin in any form. God creates us not our actions again.

We may be able to choose many of our actions, but certainly not all and, regardless, God is still sovereign and acts over and above our actions.
Agreed. This has never been disagreed with.

You could possibly argue that Liberace chose to have gay sex and yielded to his natural inclinations as a homosexual. I don't think many people would argue against that other than maybe hyper-Calvinists or strict determinists but, even then, God still created Liberace with that nature and he played a part in God's plan.
God created man and woman in geneis without a sin nature - Sin nature came later. God created liberace the man not the choice of the man. Do you disbelieve that acting on homosexuality is a sin before God? The bible says it is. Do you disbelieve that it can be laid at the cross and a person can be cleansed of it? If you do then you doubt God is soveriegn and can clease us from sin.


I don't believe that but thank you again for putting words in other people's mouths. It is, rather, the reductio ad absurdum to YOUR argument in regards to whether or not God could have logically created Liberace as a heterosexual that paints God as the author of sin. The problem lies within the framework of the OP's argument and your defense thereof that attempts to paint homosexuality and homosexuals as creations of man. You either wander into outright dualism, deism, or a variety of shades in between
This is a false attempt to push homosexuality being a creation of God. Those who believe otherwise arent deists and all the false premises you want to pin on them. Are you ready to say CF has decided unless one believes that God creates some men to be gay then you are a deist? Ridiculous and you know it - you and everyone else here who has spoken to me more than 5 seconds as well as IAR know we arent deists - dualists and all the other false arguments one is using to try to fasely convince the church that gay is ok when its not.
Sin is separation from God in a way (more specifically God's will) and on that I would mildly agree with your point. I wouldn't agree to the argument that homosexuality is necessarily or inherently sinful but, regardless, the ability to sin and hence sin itself is a creation of God.
The bolded portion is quite telling and backs what i said above.

God didnt create sin - we did.

That does not mean that God authors sin, sins Himself (an oxymoron), or directly wills sin in man (all of which pretty much say the same thing) but God has, indeed, created sinners and hence sin.
False premise. There is no darkness in God.

You just can't get past the Sovereignty of God from a scriptural perspective:
English Revised Version Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
Never argued God isnt sovereign. Not once. You can keep pretending otherwise though. As to the verse - the word evil in the hebrew is ra and it also means calamity and disaster in the form of judgment - evil was a poor translation - look it up.
God is working through us to bring about the new heavens and a new earth and that world is characterized by self-less love, equality among God's fellow creatures, and Shalom.

We can't remove the Sovereign God from the creative process though and though we may not understand we must have faith in God's will and seek that in this life...
Hmm that last part sounds new agey to me and not biblical there. We wont be creating this new earth - He will and it comes from above not here.
 
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Phinehas2

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Dear Olliefranz,
Stumpjumper is not "arguing" against the Bible, he is merely examining the logic of your syllogism, or lack of one.
I understand the use of the language, what you say is correct in that respect, but I believe the Bible is the truth there is no if for me.


No, you didn't write it, and your interpretation of it is no more infallible than anyone else's. Less so if the logic of your position does not hold up.
Sorry but its not my interpretation that I have quoted it&#8217;s the NIV in most case, you still keep referring to the quoted NIV as my interpretation.

I suggest you don&#8217;t believe what the Bible says and are attempting to attribute its condemnation and exclusion of same-sex union to my interpretation.

Then who created them?
No-one created them, homosexuals and adulterers are just labels which associate people with activities contrary to the purposes God created them for.


No one has denied that His purpose for most people, is a heterosexual marriage.
yes they have, you have, there is no mention of heterosexual or homosexual in God&#8217;s creation, marriage is man and woman so there is no such thing as homosexual marriage or same-sex marriage in God&#8217;s creation, it&#8217;s a human disobedience to God&#8217;s purposes.

The Bible testifies that His purpose for some people is celibacy.
Yes we know but it doesn&#8217;t countenance same-sex unions, it excludes and condemns them.


Yes, when a man and a woman marry, they become one flesh. Jesus said nothing, about a person choosing celibacy for the gospel to the Pharisees, but waited until they left to mention it the disciples.
So what? He said it to the disciples, are we disciples or Pharisees? And celibacy isn&#8217;t the issue, Jesus did countenance it along with man/woman union.


Becoming one flesh with a partner of the opposite sex is only one of the possible ways to align your life with God's plan.
Impossible. If God created woman to be the companion with man He didn&#8217;t create man to be the companion with man. If Jesus NT teaching offers only celibacy as the alternative we can be sure you don&#8217;t believe the Bible.


Because, as I indicated above, you stated that God's plan is for everyone to become one flesh with a person of the opposite sex.
Well if you read the citations I have given you can see I have said what you are claiming. Kindly address the scriptures.
 
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MercyBurst

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Everyone isnt always "gay" or attracted to members of the same sex all of their lives - there are tons of instances where it happened later in life as stated by the people themselves and again if you read through the thread someone in my own household did the same. I know you wont agree but I asked them with my own mouth and I have been around many many gay people who i have also discussed it with.

Im willing to bet this known also but wishes to be denied because it flies in the face of the truth. God doesnt make people sin - they do it themselves.

Angel4Truth, you are right, the gay-crowd denies the well-known facts and their outdated views border on psychosis. It's common knowledge that people can and do change their sexual orientation. This is a foundational axiom coming from Alfred Kinsey and more modern theories on human sexuality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation#Malleability_of_sexual_orientation


I quote:

The degree in which sexuality can change varies from person to person. The Centre for Addiction and Mental Health has said "For some people, sexual orientation is continuous and fixed throughout their lives. For others, sexual orientation may be fluid and change over time."[10] Research by Lisa Diamond has shown the sexual orientation is more fluid among bisexual women than lesbians.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_report#Sexual_orientation

Kinsey himself avoided and disapproved of using terms like homosexual or heterosexual to describe individuals, asserting that sexuality is prone to change over time, and that sexual behavior can be understood both as physical contact as well as purely psychological phenomena (desire, sexual attraction, fantasy).

The gay claim of "immutable orientation" doesn't hold up in a court of law either as we've already seen in the New Hampshire Task Force Procedings on Marriage. So you really don't have to prove anything here -- the legal authorities recognize there is no scientifc etiology for sexual orientation. The scientific authorities agree: "homosexuality" is a social/political construct, not a scientific one. It serves little if any useful purpose in scientific etiology, as Kinsey disapproved of the "name" in his research.

Hence the whole argument (about homosexual/heterosexual orientation) is a relic anyway, but you get to see who "lost their ability to think rationally" when you bring up "mutability." Just take a good look at who desperately clings to their myth because of their sin-darkened minds. The bible says a reprobate mind can not be resonable. This is a good example. Take note. ;)
 
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Phinehas2

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Well you are right, it is a myth and its blindness to the obvious.
The search for a gay gene is a good example. There is a massive gay and lesbian influenced funded search for a gay gene. The reason they look for a gay gene is so they can claim that sexual attraction is inborn as though that somehow justifies acting on a sexual atraction. Based on that bias one would have equally expected a search for a straight gene as well, yet what they should be looking for is a gene that causes sexual attraction. In fact if they are looking for a gay gene they need to look for any genes related to sexual attraction for if they find one, just like other genes that cause disease there may be a cure. :)
My main concern is that they seem blind to anything that is detrimental to same-sex sex and unions in any way.
 
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Criada

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I think the search for a 'gay gene' is more a product of the tabloid press than any serious scientist!
The exploration of how genes affect our sexuality has to include all aspects of sexuality, you can't do science in isolation!!!
Just as it would be a fallacy to search for a 'blond gene' rather than to investigate the group of genes which control hair colour, so it is a fallacy to search for a single and separate 'gay gene'
Anyone with a fundamental understanding of genetics can see that... unfortunately it doesn't sell as many newspapers as the 'gay' spin does!

(and linking 'moot' and mutability shows a somewhat poor grasp of linguistics!)

ETA... nm, CaDan covered that one!
 
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MercyBurst

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I think the search for a 'gay gene' is more a product of the tabloid press than any serious scientist!
The exploration of how genes affect our sexuality has to include all aspects of sexuality, you can't do science in isolation!!!
Just as it would be a fallacy to search for a 'blond gene' rather than to investigate the group of genes which control hair colour, so it is a fallacy to search for a single and separate 'gay gene'
Anyone with a fundamental understanding of genetics can see that... unfortunately it doesn't sell as many newspapers as the 'gay' spin does!

(and linking 'moot' and mutability shows a somewhat poor grasp of linguistics!)

ETA... nm, CaDan covered that one!

Deaf people are mute to the real points that were made, and major on the minors instead, looking for a way to change the subject.
 
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