Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

[David Brider]

No the question hasn’t been answered at all, the question is WHERE in the creation account is the record for homosexuals?

In the bit where it says that God created everyone.

Yours is an assumption which is based on people being who they think they are, not what God created them as and for. That means God created people who call themselves homosexual, but He didn’t create homosexuals.

Most of the time you'll find that if people call themselves homosexual, that's because they are homosexual.

And like you others keep saying as God created all people he must have created homosexuals, but the creation account tells you He didn’t...

Actually, the creation account tells me nothing of the kind.

He created woman for man...

Yes, so that she could be his helper, apparently.

so that they may be united, so that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife.

Which isn't given as the reason for the creation of women.

That’s not homosexual is it? yes or no?

That's not. But some people are. By constantly bringing it back to (what you believe to be) the reasons for the creation of men and women, you're missing the point of the discussion. A homosexual man may have been, according to your beliefs, created to be with a woman, but that doesn't do anything to change the fact that he's a homosexual, and the fact that he's a homosexual doesn't do anything to change the fact that he was created by God.

They don’t exist as a creation. The creation account tells you they are a human idea and contrary to God’s purpose.

Are you reading the same creation account that I'm reading? Or are you just "adding to God's Word"? Naughty boy.

Let me just remind you that the OP is asking for the evidence of God creating homosexuals in the creation account, not who created them, if they don’t exist they weren’t created...

That's a big "if". They evidently do exist. There are (I think) at least half a dozen who regularly contribute to threads in these subforums.

...the onus is on you to show how they exist when the creation account is about man and woman, not same-sex union.

You're confusing "being a homosexual" with "same-sex union". They're not the same thing. At all.

You got your idea from your own thinking and it’s the opposite to the Biblical account.

That'll be the same Biblical account that tells us that "by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him," will it? Or another Biblical account that doesn't credit God with creating everything.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear tulc,
no but it shows you there will be nothing in the record to show God created homosexuality as what was created excludes it. The only purpose the OP and thread can therefore serve is to expose this truth but getting people to address it and realise their arguments are baseless and false assumptions.
At the moment some posters arent addressing the fact what the scripture says, just offering their own assumption contrary to what the scripture
lets make it even easier. and put it in pansexual terms

Genesis 2. "But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man." Is bringing a woman to the man as a companion, homosexual or hetersoexual?

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Is a father and mother an example of a homosexual or heterosexual couple? Is a man uniting with his wife and example of a heterosexual or homosexual union?
QED
So the idea that God must have created homosexuals is a false assunption based on people thinking they must have been created to do the opposite of what God created them for. Its human thinking and not in the Creation record.

 

[HaloHope]

This is like talking to a brick wall as I said:-

God created humans. Homosexuals are humans. End of discussion.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear tulc,
I dont have it both ways, the creation record shows God created man and woman to be united, that not homosexual is it? In your pansexual terms I would say that is heterosexual. Show me in the creation record where God created homosexuals? ie Adam and Steve.

 

[CaDan]

Dear David Brider,
The question has been answered ad nauseam. God creates everybody. Everybody includes homosexuals. Therefore God creates homosexuals.

No the question hasn’t been answered at all, the question is WHERE in the creation account is the record for homosexuals? [/quote]

Answered above. Right next to the creation of all the things that are not listed in that account.

Yours is an assumption which is based on people being who they think they are, not what God created them as and for. That means God created people who call themselves homosexual, but He didn’t create homosexuals. And like you others keep saying as God created all people he must have created homosexuals, but the creation account tells you He didn’t, He created woman for man, so that they may be united, so that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife. That’s not homosexual is it? yes or no? Father and mother isn’t a same-sex couple nor is husband and wife.

They don’t exist as a creation. The creation account tells you they are a human idea and contrary to God’s purpose. Don’t ask me to justify your misunderstanding,

Let me just remind you that the OP is asking for the evidence of God creating homosexuals in the creation account, not who created them, if they don’t exist they weren’t created, the onus is on you to show how they exist when the creation account is about man and woman, not same-sex union. You got your idea from your own thinking and it’s the opposite to the Biblical account.

And we have yet again an extended exposition of Valentinian Gnosticism.

 

[CaDan]

Dear tulc,
no but it shows you there will be nothing in the record to show God created homosexuality as what was created excludes it. The only purpose the OP and thread can therefore serve is to expose this truth but getting people to address it and realise their arguments are baseless and false assumptions.
At the moment some posters arent addressing the fact what the scripture says, just offering their own assumption contrary to what the scripture
lets make it even easier. and put it in pansexual terms

Genesis 2. "But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man." Is bringing a woman to the man as a companion, homosexual or hetersoexual?

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Is a father and mother an example of a homosexual or heterosexual couple? Is a man uniting with his wife and example of a heterosexual or homosexual union?
QED
So the idea that God must have created homosexuals is a false assunption based on people thinking they must have been created to do the opposite of what God created them for. Its human thinking and not in the Creation record.

Have you let your bishop know that you do not believe God the Father was not the creator of all things visible and invisible?

 

[Joykins]

Soooo God didn't make all people? Only some of them?
tulc(not quite sure why this is even being argued)

Well at least one was begotten, not created. I'm pretty sure that isn't the line of argument being pursued (although if it were...)

 

[CaDan]

Dear tulc,
I dont have it both ways, the creation record shows God created man and woman to be united, that not homosexual is it? In your pansexual terms I would say that is heterosexual. Show me in the creation record where God created homosexuals? ie Adam and Steve.

Yet "Steve" exists. It is a puzzlement, indeed. Not created, not begotten. That leaves only one option.

 

[Joykins]

...it might be fabulous. Just sayin.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,

In the bit where it says that God created everyone.

It doesn’t say God created everyone, quote the bit. It says God created man and woman but that opposite sex not same sex.

Most of the time you'll find that if people call themselves homosexual, that's because they are homosexual.

They could call themselves a big red number 7 bus but the question is where in the creation account did God create homosexuality, not where in peoples claims did He.

Actually, the creation account tells me nothing of the kind.

Again the Op is asking where the creation account records God creating homosexuality not what it isn’t telling you.

quote] Yes, so that she could be his helper, apparently.[/quote] No not apparently, the scripture doesn’t apparently.

Which isn't given as the reason for the creation of women.

Yes it is and if you want confirmation refer to Jesus remarks in Matthew 19, who says have you not read "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one.
So the reason is not as you think but the opposite of what you assume.

That's not. But some people are. By constantly bringing it back to (what you believe to be) the reasons for the creation of men and women, you're missing the point of the discussion.

On the contrary you are the OP asks for the record of God creating homosexuality so I am showing the record not what I believe it to be the record itself.

Are you reading the same creation account that I'm reading? Or are you just "adding to God's Word"? Naughty boy.

Well you tell me I have been quoting it for several pages while you have been telling me your imaginations, naughty you.

That's a big "if".

On what basis is it a big if? Give some evidence from the creation account.

They evidently do exist.

they evidently don’t’ as the creation account shows.

That'll be the same Biblical account that tells us that "by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him," will it? Or another Biblical account that doesn't credit God with creating everything.

yes but that doesn’t mention homosexual, the rest of the creation account tells us homosexual is a human concept contrary to God’s creation.

Sorry David but all you have given me is your thoughts, no evidence from the creation record of how the manwoman union can have anything to do with homosexuality.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear CaDan,

Have you let your bishop know that you do not believe God the Father was not the creator of all things visible and invisible?

I believe God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the creator of all things, have I said to the contrary? Does my Bishop believe that? do you? Would you like to comment on the OP and not make suggestions about what I do?
For the record I said He created man and woman, I assume that covers all people, He didnt however create homsoexuals, homosexuals are people with same sex attraction, we can see from the Biblical record that God didnt create people to have same-sex attraction.

Yet "Steve" exists. It is a puzzlement, indeed. Not created, not begotten. That leaves only one option.

Where? th equestionis where in the creation record, not where in your imagination? I can see Adam who was a man and Eve who was a woman, no sign of Stevie boy. Where?

 

[Jim47]

A little bible lesson for you all.

God did not create homo-sexuals. This has been explained already, but here is biblical proof, of course if you don't believe the bible then it means nothing to you.



Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

Ge 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day



God created man to be perfect and holy just as God is Himself perfect and holy.


Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.


2Sa 22:31 "As for God, his way is perfect;
the word of the LORD is flawless.
He is a shield
for all who take refuge in him.

Mat 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve fell into sin. They sinned because they were decieved by Satan. Satan has been very busy ever since in decieving people into sin, myself as well. Satan does this because he wants company when he is cast into Hell.


Jesus says of Satan:

Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jn 8:45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

So why do people fail to believe Jesus and what God has said in His scripture? Because they reject the truth and instead teach one onother what their itching ears want to hear:

2Ti 4: 3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.



God says of His word:

2Ti 3: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

All men sin:
1Jn 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.


But, he who repents of his sin:


1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.


So all sin is evil in God's sight and worthy of death, but the only sin we will be charged with is the sin we have not repented of. This goes for all sin.

 

[Criada]

Head. Wall.

k, homosexuals are non-existent, we're all pretending.
Happy?
Cos I'm getting dizzy going round in circles here!!

ETA
Cross posted.. that wasn't aimed at you, Jim.

 

[Crazy Liz]

OK, the OP is badly worded, but the focus of those defending the OP seems to have shifted from whether homosexual people are God's creation to whether the people who call themselves homosexual really are homosexual, or are just making up something out of their own imaginations that isn't real.

Am I getting your argument?

You also said God does not create blind people or people with Down syndrome. (At least I think it was you. I may be wrong about who it was.)

So I guess that means blind people just call themselves that, but aren't really blind. People with Down syndrome just call themselves that, but they really have all the capabilities of other humans. Etc.

We've tried to test your logic by applying it to other cases, and it doesn't hold up. If we have misapplied your logic to these other cases, please explain in detail.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear criada,
yes it is like bashing one's head against a wall, all you are saying is homosexuals exist, the OP question isnt what you think but where in the creation record does God create homosexuals? The creation account is God creating man and woman for the purpose of them being united. That means who yiu think exists is your idea, not God's.

Same for Crazy Liz, never mind blind people and big red no 47 buses, the OP ask for them, where in the creation record does God create homosexuality if He created man and woman to be together.

 

[Phinehas2]

This is why the church cannot accept this heresy, its a fundamnetal error, Jesus compares His church with the bride and bridegroom, not his same-sex partner. God created man and woman to be in union, same-sex unions are condemned.

 

[Joykins]

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Homosexual people are part of Creation and like the rest of Creation need redemption, are being redeemed, will be redeemed.

 

[Jim47]

Crazy Liz
OK, the OP is badly worded, but the focus of those defending the OP seems to have shifted from whether homosexual people are God's creation to whether the people who call themselves homosexual really are homosexual, or are just making up something out of their own imaginations that isn't real.

The OP isn't badly worded, you just haven't listened to the biblical explainations, nor accepted them.

You also said God does not create blind people or people with Down syndrome. (At least I think it was you. I may be wrong about who it was.)

So I guess that means blind people just call themselves that, but aren't really blind. People with Down syndrome just call themselves that, but they really have all the capabilities of other humans. Etc.

God did't create blind people or Down's syndrome, thise and all illnesses and disesaes came about thru the fall of sin. They also are not given by God as many would believe, but Satan.

Look into the gospils, you will see many mentions of Jesus casting out blind, deaf, and crippled spirits that Satan had given them.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Why do you sometimes want to talk about the implications and ramifications of the OP, and sometimes not?

 

[Jim47]

Why do you sometimes want to talk about the implications and ramifications of the OP, and sometimes not?

Who are you asking that question and what specificaly does it refer to?