Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Douggg]

If the reference of woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Rev 12:12 somehow meant that it had to refer to one of the woes referenced in Revelation 8:13, then how would you know it is in reference to the third woe instead of the first or second woe?

There are only two places in the bible where the phrase "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" is found.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

ffith angel sounds his trumpet first woe - the flesh tormenting locust lasting 5 months.

sixth angel sounds his trumpet second woe - a third of mankind killed by huge armies of 200,000,000 as they march toward Armageddon.

seventh angel sounds his trumpet third woe - Satan's wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time.

Third woe begins.................the first woe takes place......................the second woe takes place.......... the third woe ends.

Third woe begins...............................................time/times/half time...................................................................the third woe ends.

Textually, in Revelation 9-12, the fifth angel sounds, then the sixth angel sounds, then the seventh angel sounds, revealing what the woes will be.

On the time line, the third woe begins, then the first woe takes place, then the second woe takes place, then the third woe ends when Jesus returns and Satan imprisoned.

 

[Douggg]

You are intentionally omitting the first motivation the Jewish inhabitants have to flee: the trampling of their holy city by the gentiles in Rev 11:2.

No, the first motivation will be that the abomination of desolation statue image will have been placed on the temple mount. In Matthew 24:15, that is the signal that Jesus said them in Judea to flee when they see that abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet (in Daniel 12:11-12).

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

No, the first motivation will be that the abomination of desolation statue image will have been placed on the temple mount. In Matthew 24:15, that is the signal that Jesus said them in Judea to flee when they see that abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet (in Daniel 12:11-12).



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Here you go again ignoring scriptures because they prove your timeline wrong. The trampling of the holy city happens at the same time the 2W start. They "will trample," "And," "will prophesy" at the same time. Matt 24:14 starts the 2W. You are doubting how provocative and unwelcomed the 2W will generally be. The trampling of the holy city begins by the arrival of the 2W. Satan is freshly kicked out of Heaven. He assigns a beast to indwell the AC. The AC is then 100% evil and only then commits the AoD in Matt 24:15.

 

[Douggg]

The trampling of the holy city happens at the same time the 2W start.

No, the two witnesses begin their testifying on day 1 of the 7 years when there will be civil order, and can be heard by the people of Israel, and around the world.

Differently, during the 42 months of Jerusalem trampled down, there will be oppression and suppression during the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

No, the two witnesses begin their testifying on day 1 of the 7 years when there will be civil order, and can be heard by the people of Israel, and around the world.

Differently, during the 42 months of Jerusalem trampled down, there will be oppression and suppression during the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.



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You are violating 1 Th 5:2-3 (ESV): For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

There is no "civil order" on day 1 of the Trib. It is the complete opposite. More errors in your timeline.

The future tense in Rev 11:2-3 prove the 2W start just before the midpoint.

 

[Douggg]

You are violating 1 Th 5:2-3 (ESV): For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

There is no "civil order" on day 1 of the Trib. It is the complete opposite. More errors in your timeline.

Most of the first half will be a false messianic age with the world say "peace and safety".

That sense of peace and safety and civil order will be shattered when the Antichrist commits the ToD, transgression of desolation act, in 2Thesslalonians2:4, of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.... triggering the beginning of the day of the Lord.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Most of the first half will be a false messianic age with the world say "peace and safety".

That sense of peace and safety and civil order will be shattered when the Antichrist commits the ToD, transgression of desolation act, in 2Thesslalonians2:4, of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.... triggering the beginning of the day of the Lord.




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Doug, you are in complete denial of the horrific death totals within the first year of the Trib. Seal #2 (Rev 6:4) will cause simultaneous wars all over the world. Seal #4 (Rev 6:8) will kill 25% of the world's population. Your timeline is too erroneous for words.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, you are in complete denial of the horrific death totals within the first year of the Trib. Seal #2 (Rev 6:4) will cause simultaneous wars all over the world. Seal #4 (Rev 6:8) will kill 25% of the world's population. Your timeline is too erroneous for words.

Seal 2 events will take place when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation. Note the ToD act to start the Seal 2 events. And then the AoD setup. On my second chart below this one, I show what happens between the ToD and the AoD setup.

 

[Douggg]

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Seal 2 events will take place when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation. Note the ToD act to start the Seal 2 events. And then the AoD setup. On my second chart below this one, I show what happens between the ToD and the AoD setup.


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I’m done with you and your erroneous timeline.

 

[Douggg]

I’m done with you and your erroneous timeline.

You think in your second half period of the two witnesses that when they are killed at the very end of the 70th week in your view, the world is going to make merry and exchange gifts over their deaths.

Look at these different renditions on a google search of what the cities and land will look like at that time. Plus men are going to be crushed with giant hailstones at that time, Revelation 16:21. You notion of celebrating and making merry and exchanging gifts at that time is not realistic.

apocalyptic scene near the end of the great tribulation - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

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[Spiritual Jew]

So the 7th Trumpet declares Satan is Jesus?

LOL. Where in the world did you get the idea I was saying something ridiculous like that? Do you just make things like this up to see what kind of reaction you will get? You can't be for real.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

You seem to think that Satan is the woe, but the verse says nothing about a woe.

I said absolutely nothing about Satan being the woe and I have no idea where you're getting that from besides your imagination.

What I'm saying is very simple that anyone (except you?) can easily understand. As I've already indicated, the three woes correlate directly with the last 3 trumpets, as can be seen here:

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, based on what this says, the last three woes correlate directly with the three last trumpets to sound and therefore the first woe correlates directly with the fifth trumpet, the second woe with the sixth trumpet and the third woe with the seventh trumpet. Very simple. If you can't understand something as simple as this, then I'm not sure what you can understand. Maybe nothing.

How does declaring Jesus as King over the earth, mean a woe, as in regards to Satan declared as the 3rd woe?

I didn't declare Satan as a 3rd woe. Where are you getting that from? Certainly not from anything I said. Douggg relates Satan falling from heaven to the third woe, not me.

You refuse to even declare what you think the 3rd woe is.

LOL! Are you not reading anything I'm saying? I've said several times now that I believe the 3rd woe is the same as the 7th trumpet and it's described in Revelation 11:15-18. Do I need to quote that passage again even though I've already quoted it several times or can you read it for yourself?

 

[Douggg]

Douggg relates Satan falling from heaven to the third woe, not me.

seventh angel sounds his trumpet third woe - Satan's wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time.

see my post #481.

 

[Timtofly]

So, based on what this says, the last three woes correlate directly with the three last trumpets

But the last 3 Trumpets are not woes. The woes just happen as the result of the pit opened, the 4 angels loosed, and Jesus is declared King of the World.

 

[Douggg]

But the last 3 Trumpets are not woes. The woes just happen as the result of the pit opened, the 4 angels loosed, and Jesus is declared King of the World.

Tim, the text says...

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the last three trumpets are tied the three woes to the inhabiters of the earth.

ffith angel sounds his trumpet, first woe - the flesh tormenting locust lasting 5 months.

sixth angel sounds his trumpet, second woe - a third of mankind killed by huge armies of 200,000,000 as they march toward Armageddon.

seventh angel sounds his trumpet, third woe - Satan's wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time.


Third woe begins.................the first woe takes place......................the second woe takes place.......... the third woe ends.
Third woe begins...............................................time/times/half time...................................................................the third woe ends.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

But the last 3 Trumpets are not woes. The woes just happen as the result of the pit opened, the 4 angels loosed, and Jesus is declared King of the World.

It very specifically indicates that the three woes are the direct result of the last 3 trumpets. How you can't see that is just mind boggling because it can't be more obvious. I'll post the verse one more time in case you still haven't read it.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

 

[Spiritual Jew]

seventh angel sounds his trumpet third woe - Satan's wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time.

see my post #481.

The seventh trumpet/third woe is described in Revelation 11:15-18 and it has nothing to do with Satan's wrath. Instead, it relates to God's wrath.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Douggg]

The seventh trumpet/third woe is described in Revelation 11:15-18 and it has nothing to do with Satan's wrath. Instead, it relates to God's wrath.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 11:16-18 is the reaction of them in heaven when they hear the seventh angel sound his trumpet - because in Revelation 10:7 in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, the mystery of God shall be finished. Revelation 11:18 is what God had declared through his servants the prophets.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is not the reaction of them in heaven to the seventh angel sounding. The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is Revelation 12:12.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, the text says...

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the last three trumpets are tied the three woes to the inhabiters of the earth.

ffith angel sounds his trumpet, first woe - the flesh tormenting locust lasting 5 months.

sixth angel sounds his trumpet, second woe - a third of mankind killed by huge armies of 200,000,000 as they march toward Armageddon.

seventh angel sounds his trumpet, third woe - Satan's wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time.


Third woe begins.................the first woe takes place......................the second woe takes place.......... the third woe ends.
Third woe begins...............................................time/times/half time...................................................................the third woe ends.

Sure if you skip over what actually happens when a Trumpet sounds.

That verse does not say the 7th Trumpet would sound, and then the 5th Trumpet, and then the 6th Trumpet.

Those 42 months do not cover the 5th and 6th Trumpet.

 

[Timtofly]

It very specifically indicates that the three woes are the direct result of the last 3 trumpets. How you can't see that is just mind boggling because it can't be more obvious. I'll post the verse one more time in case you still haven't read it.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

By "reason of". No verse says a Trumpet is also a woe.

The action of the Trumpet also allows a secondary event, seperate from the actual Trumpet event.

In the 5th Trumpet the pit was open.

The pit opened was not the woe.

In the 6th Trumpet 4 angels were loosed.

Those 4 angels loosed was not the woe.

The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as King over every nation, the 7th World empire.

Jesus being King is not the woe. That would in fact be a blessing where eternal life reigns and sin and death are no more.

Could the angels leave sheol even if the pit was not opened?

Could there be a 2 million man army without those 4 angels?

You won't even describe a third woe. Eternal life is not a woe, so guess again.