Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Spiritual Jew]

Revelation 12:12 has not just the word "woe"in it, but...the full phrase "woe to the inhabiters of the earth".

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So what? Having a similar phrase does not automatically make that verse about the same thing as one of the three woes. Revelation 8:12-13 makes it clear that the three woes correlate directly with the last 3 trumpets (third woe = seventh trumpet) and Revelation 12:12 is not a description of the seventh trumpet/third woe. Instead, Revelation 11:15-18 is a description of the seventh trumpet/third woe.

Revelation 12:12 relates to Satan being cast out of heaven and he was cast out of heaven long ago already, as I've already told you several times before. Him being cast out of heaven results in him no longer being able to accuse believers in heaven anymore (Rev 12:10) and he certainly has not been doing that for a long time. Paul asks in Romans 8:33 "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?" with the answer being no one. And that includes Satan. And that is because he can't make any accusations against believers when our sins have been forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It is not that the first two woes happen after the third woe. But that the first two woes happen "within" the time span of the third woe.


Third woe begins.................the first woe takes place.......... then the second woe takes place........... the third woe ends.

Third woe begins...............................................time/times/half time...................................................................the third woe ends.

You can't expect to be taken seriously when you come up with such utter nonsense like this.

It couldn't possibly be more clear that the third woe doesn't begin until after the second woe (and first woe) have finished.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

This is very clear that the third woe doesn't come until after the second woe is PAST. Having the third woe starting even before the first woe does is just completely ludicrous.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Related does not mean they are the same thing.

They are the same thing, which is very obvious. Each of the last 3 trumpets causes the three woes. The fifth trumpet causes the first woe, the sixth trumpet causes the second woe and the seventh trumpet causes the third woe. Very simple. That's why the seventh trumpet is described in Revelation 11:15-18 right after it says the second woe is past in Revelation 11:14. The third woe occurs at the sound of the seventh trumpet.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

No there is no 1255.5 day gap between Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 11:7. You are misunderstanding Matthew 24:14.

Matthew 24:14 began back in the days of the disciples, as Jesus in Luke 21:44-48 commissioned them to go out and preach the gospel as witnesses.

Luke 24:
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Matthew 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 24 is about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Matt 24:14 matches exactly --- EXACTLY -- when the 2W start: shortly before the midpoint (Matt 24:15). The trampling begins, and fleeing begins (Matt 24:16). Doug, Rev 11:2 & 3 run concurrently exactly as those verses state. Matt 24 is a perfect match in every way, shape and form.

Let's see your perfect match, in verses, of the 2W solely operating in the first half. You have to violate the gap before Rev 11:7 to do it. Sorry, that will not align with Scripture since the 2W start just before the midpoint.

 

[Douggg]

So what? Having a similar phrase does not automatically make that verse about the same thing as one of the three woes.

How many places in the bible is found the phrase - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

Revelation 12:12 is not a description of the seventh trumpet/third woe. Instead, Revelation 11:15-18 is a description of the seventh trumpet/third woe.

Revelation 11:15-18 is the rejoiceful reaction of them in heaven to the seventh angel sounding his trumpet.

In Revelation 12:12 speaks about their rejoiceful reaction.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12:12 relates to Satan being cast out of heaven and he was cast out of heaven long ago already, as I've already told you several times before.

Revelation 12:12 is the result of the war waged in the second heaven in Revelation 12:7-9. The war in the second heaven will take place after the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 of the two witnesses feeding Israel the Word of God.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

No, I am not ignoring the wording in Revelation 11:2-3. I am correctly understanding the wording. And I show the trampling of Jerusalem for 42 month and the prophesying and testifying time of 1260 days, on my timeline chart.

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We don't know for certain who the two witnesses are. One may be Elijah.

The two witnesses start their 1260 days on day 1 of the 7 year 70th week. As the false messianic age of the Antichrist begins. The world saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:3.

The day of the Lord then comes like a thief in the night, unexpected, to end the delusion of peace and safety and to end the false messianic age.

The unexpected act and the beginning of the day of Lord is in 2Thessalonians2:4 when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood. That act by the Antichrist is called the transgression of desolation (ToD) in Daniel 8:12-13.

I show the false messianic age, the two witnesses 1260 days, and the ToD act on my time line chart.




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Doug, you have not accepted that Rev 11:2 & 3, as stated, prove they run concurrently. You can't show me a verse of the 2W starting early in the first half. How about starting there?

 

[Douggg]

You can't expect to be taken seriously when you come up with such utter nonsense like this.

No one can taken you seriously considering the bitter demeanor and sarcastic tone of your posts.

It couldn't possibly be more clear that the third woe doesn't begin until after the second woe (and first woe) have finished.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Revelation 11:14 is John's commentary alerting the reader that it will quickly be revealed what the third woe will be.

Revelation 9:12 is also John's commentary alerting the reader.

The third woe begins after the two witnesses leave this world and the 7th trumpet sounds.

 

[Douggg]

Matt 24:14 matches exactly --- EXACTLY -- when the 2W start: shortly before the midpoint (Matt 24:15). The trampling begins, and fleeing begins (Matt 24:16). Doug, Rev 11:2 & 3 run concurrently exactly as those verses state. Matt 24 is a perfect match in every way, shape and form.

Matthew 24:14 does not mention the two witnesses. Neither is 42 months mentioned in Matthew 24;16.

Matthew 24:16 is about the Jews in Judea fleeing into the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is set up on the temple mount.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, you have not accepted that Rev 11:2 & 3, as stated, prove they run concurrently. You can't show me a verse of the 2W starting early in the first half. How about starting there?

In Revelation 11:12-13, the two witnesses leave this world. Then the seventh angel sounds in Revelation 11:15 signifying the coming of the third woe, which is the time, times, half time of Satan's wrath in Revelation 12:12.

Thus the two witnesses' 1260 days is before the time, times, half times of Satan's wrath.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How many places in the bible is found the phrase - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

It doesn't matter. The three woes correspond to the last 3 trumpets, as indicated in Revelation 8:12-13. That means the description of the seventh trumpet, found in Revelation 11:15-18, is also a description of the third woe.

Revelation 11:15-18 is the rejoiceful reaction of them in heaven to the seventh angel sounding his trumpet.

Did you even bother reading the text? There's much more there than just "the rejoiceful reaction of them in heaven to the the seventh angel sounding his trumpet". Which I showed you already. Why did you not address that? It talks about things like the judgment of the dead and the destruction of those who destroy the earth and so on there and you act as if nothing is written there except "the rejoiceful reaction of them in heaven to the seventh angel sounding his trumpet". Why can you never be honest with scripture? You're always just making it say whatever you want it to say.

In Revelation 12:12 speaks about their rejoiceful reaction.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Revelation 12:12 is the result of the war waged in the second heaven in Revelation 12:7-9. The war in the second heaven will take place after the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 of the two witnesses feeding Israel the Word of God.

Revelation 12:12 is not about the third woe/seventh trumpet. Revelation 11:15-18 is. Keep denying it all you want, but it's very clear that the three woes correlate directly with the last 3 trumpets (Rev 8:12-13) and therefore the third woe/seventh trumpet's description is clearly found in Revelation 11:15-18, not in Revelation 12:12.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No one can taken you seriously considering the bitter demeanor and sarcastic tone of your posts.

Your dishonest treatment of scripture and nonsensical comments about scripture deserve nothing more than ridicule. To deny that the third woe (seventh trumpet) follows the second woe (sixth trumpet) is as ridiculous a claim as anyone can possibly make. It can't be taken seriously whatsoever and that kind of claim just shows that you are not to be taken seriously because you obviously just make scripture say whatever you want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

No one in the world except you tries to claim that the third woe does not follow the second woe chronologically. This verse very clearly indicates that the third woe occurs quickly AFTER the second woe is PAST. This is very basic, elementary stuff that you can't even understand. It's truly unbelievable.

 

[Douggg]

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter what the bible says ?

How many places in the bible is found the phrase - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It doesn't matter what the bible says ?

You know that's not what I meant. No one here would ever say that and you know it. Why are you so dishonest, Douggg?

How many places in the bible is found the phrase - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

As I already said, it does not matter how many places it is found. That phrase being in one place does not automatically make it directly related to another place where the phrase is found.

If we assumed that about every phrase found in scripture then we'd have to assume Christ's ascension, described as Him "coming with the clouds of heaven" TO heaven (brought before God the Father in heaven) in Daniel 7:13-14, always refers to the same event, but it doesn't. It refers to both His ascension and to His second coming with the context being determined by whether He is going to heaven or coming from heaven. Does context matter to you, Douggg? The context of Revelation 12:12 is not the third woe/seventh trumpet, so the fact that it contains the same phrase as a verse relating to the three woes does not mean it is directly related to any of the three woes.

And, again, Revelation 12:12 relates to Satan being cast out of heaven and he was cast out of heaven long ago in the past. But the third woe/seventh trumpet will occur in the future.

 

[Douggg]

As I already said, it does not matter how many places it is found.

How many (doesn't matter to you) places in the bible is found the phrase - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

And what are the verses, that "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" appear?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How many (doesn't matter to you) places in the bible is found the phrase - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

And what are the verses, that "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" appear?

Douggg, I've already said everything I have to say about this and you don't address anything I say. Why should I answer these questions that you already know the answer to? What would that accomplish?

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, I've already said everything I have to say about this and you don't address anything I say. Why should I answer these questions that you already know the answer to? What would that accomplish?

It would require you to acknowledge that the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is Satan's having great wrath knowing his time is short.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It would require you to acknowledge that the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is Satan's having great wrath knowing his time is short.

I won't acknowledge something that isn't true. Can you acknowledge that the third woe correlates directly with the seventh trumpet and that events related to the sounding of the seventh trumpet are described in Revelation 11:15-18?

Revelation 8:13 says "woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth" and the three woes are then associated with the last three trumpets. If the reference of woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Rev 12:12 somehow meant that it had to refer to one of the woes referenced in Revelation 8:13, then how would you know it is in reference to the third woe instead of the first or second woe?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Matthew 24:14 does not mention the two witnesses. Neither is 42 months mentioned in Matthew 24;16.

Matthew 24:16 is about the Jews in Judea fleeing into the mountains when the abomination of desolation statue image is set up on the temple mount.




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You are intentionally omitting the first motivation the Jewish inhabitants have to flee: the trampling of their holy city by the gentiles in Rev 11:2. You curve-fit everything to validate your false timeline. You even claim the Bema Seat occurs in the second half. Please read 2 Tim 4:8 for what is meant by "on that day." Keep in mind what those three words most likely mean by who wrote them: no less than the author of the pre-Trib rapture. Your timeline has significant errors. Chief among them is there's no verse that says the 2W start their ministry early in the first half.

The 7th trumpet and the 3rd woe happen at the midpoint. Satan has fallen back to Earth after being banned from Heaven. All hell is breaking loose. The Rev 11:2 gentiles are just the first instigators. Rev 12:13 (ESV): And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. Matt 24:16 has multiple forces motivating the fleeing: the trampling by the gentiles, and the pursuit by Satan of believing Jews.

That is the 3rd woe.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

In Revelation 11:12-13, the two witnesses leave this world. Then the seventh angel sounds in Revelation 11:15 signifying the coming of the third woe, which is the time, times, half time of Satan's wrath in Revelation 12:12.

Thus the two witnesses' 1260 days is before the time, times, half times of Satan's wrath.

You are ignoring the future tense in Rev 11:2-3: "will trample" and "will prophesy" along with "And" in verse 3. The future tense means the 2W start their prophesying just before the midpoint. The "And" means "in addition to," related to the prophesying. The time (1,260 days) for the prophesying runs concurrently with the time for the trampling (42 months).

In addition to that proof that the 2W start shortly before the midpoint, Elijah, as one of the 2W, will show up for his role just before the midpoint. Malachi 4:5 (NLT): “Look, I am sending you the prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord arrives.

All of the relevant verses PROVE the 2W start just before the midpoint. It's the interlude starting in Rev 10 and continuing to Rev 11:13 that throws off the context for those verses. Interludes are real. Rev 7 is the greatest example.

 

[Timtofly]

They are the same thing, which is very obvious. Each of the last 3 trumpets causes the three woes. The fifth trumpet causes the first woe, the sixth trumpet causes the second woe and the seventh trumpet causes the third woe. Very simple. That's why the seventh trumpet is described in Revelation 11:15-18 right after it says the second woe is past in Revelation 11:14. The third woe occurs at the sound of the seventh trumpet.

So the 7th Trumpet declares Satan is Jesus?

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

You seem to think that Satan is the woe, but the verse says nothing about a woe.

How does declaring Jesus as King over the earth, mean a woe, as in regards to Satan declared as the 3rd woe?

You refuse to even declare what you think the 3rd woe is.