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Featured Where is the Beast right Now

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Just The Facts, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Michael stood up for his people when the Lord Jesus began His earthly ministry. Following His ministry and the rejection of the Lord by the Jews and the following tribulation SUCH AS never was. This is the same as in the Olivet prophecy, Daniel's people, the Believeing Jews, whose names were written in the book, who fled Jerusalem according to the Lord's command when they saw Jerusalme surrounded by armies. All fulfilled.
     
  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Was this part of "all fulfilled"?

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
    Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
     
  3. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said so.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi David, you have the parable of the fig tree verses associated with the wrong verses in Luke and Matthew. Some of the verses do have application for 70AD. Others do not. Here is the association of all the verses in those three chapters.

    Matthew 24:1-2 70AD
    Matthew 24:3- 14 historic up to Jesus's return.
    Matthew 24:15-31 end times, with verse 15 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

    Luke 21:6-19 historic up to Jesus's return
    Luke 21:20-23 70AD
    Luke 21:24 historic to present
    Luke 21:25-26 during the great tribulation, end times
    Luke 21:27 Jesus's Second coming at the end of the great tribulation
    Luke 21:28 end times, right now - the present
    Luke 21:29-36 end times, parable of the fig tree, before the Day of the Lord.

    Mark 13:1-2 70AD
    Mark 13:5-13 historic to present
    Mark 13:14-27 end times, with verse 14 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years
    Mark 13:28-32 end times, parable of the fig tree, rapture/resurrection event, no one knows the day nor hour.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel's people the Jews do not becoming "believing Jews" until the middle part of the seven years forthcoming. Which is when Michael will stand up for them.

    The vision itself has been sealed from understanding and fulfillment until time of the end.

    Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
     
  6. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Daniel's people were believing Jews at Pentecost.

    Daniel 12:1 is a continuation of Chap 11, which goes up to the reign of Herosd The King, immediately followed by the ministry of Jesus, then the great tribulation, "such as" when the christian Jews escaped the city in respose to the Lord's command. They were Daniel's people, all whose names were written in the book. (of life, my understanding.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  7. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Daniel's people who fled Jerusalem when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies, that was the abomination of Desolatioon, according to the Lord's command in Olivet. They were people whose names were written in the book. Eusebius said not one Christian died in the war.

    There is no future seven years, the whole seventy weeks was fulfilled in the ministry of Christ and the apostles.
     
  8. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Yet we know that during the actual tribulation that Christians shall die. Two are called the two prophets and they not only die but are resurrected. None of that happened when the Roman's ended the Jewish rebellion. The Olivet discourse is about Christians being persecuted and killed not Jews.

    The olivet discourse (Matthew):

    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    False Christ's are warned about.

    Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".

    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


    The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.


    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    "Ye" are Christians.
    So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    "Ye" is still the same people, Christians.


    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

    Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.


    Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
    Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

    Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


    Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
    Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
    Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
    Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
    Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.


    In the GT Christians will be beaten in Jewish synagogues simply because Christians are the ones being persecuted not the Jews.
     
  9. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Happened during the Roman war and before. Paul was accused of being one, the Egyptian who led manmy into the wilderness. Josephus mentions that one and many more. Fulfilled

    Yes I agree You were the apostles he was speaking tro. Christian Jews. Fulfilled

    Olivet has nothing to do with antichrist.

    Again "Ye" the christians at the time. Fulfilled


     
  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    None of the OD has been fulfilled.


    Yes it does. It is the AC that order the persecution of Christians during the GT. He has many names but AC is the most well known. Rev, Daniel and the OD use different names but it's still the same person in all.
     
  11. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Ollivet has nothing whatsoever to do with Antichrist. Matthew 24 is a continuation of Matthew 23. Where Jesus told the Pharisees that their House would be left desolate and that it was all fall on "This Generation". On leaving the temple the disciples were perplexed at that and said "Look at these large stones" Some were said to weigh 25 tons or more.) They couldn't believe it and asked him when that would happen he said again that the current generation would not pass away untill it was fulfilled.
    They also asked what the sign would be that it was about to happen? Jesus said "When YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, that was the OD, then know that its desolation was near. Then those in Jerusalem and Judea were to flee to the mountains. Fulfilled If it was some future idol in a future temple holy place they would not see it unless they were the high priest. Not that there will be any priests because the sacrifice failed in AD 70 because the house of records containing the genealogies was burnt down and no one could prove their geanealogy. See Ezra on that subject.

    Matthew asked an unrelated question. Off topic we would say. "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Jesus answers that begiining at verse 36. Future
    • 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    That's incorrect.


    Which includes the second coming and rapture which did not happen in that generation proving Christ spoke of a future generation that would see all of the things, not some of the things.


    It was all a package deal and it was all future.

    Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
    Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
    Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
    Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    All these things is all the things spoken from verse 3-onward. He didn't say some of these things. Claiming the second coming was a different subject not a part of the other things goes against the wording by Christ. The tribulation is found in verses3-28, then immediately after the trib Christ returns. Preterism falsely claims that the trib happened long ago because the second coming did not happen immediately after it.
     
  13. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    To make it as simple as possible, Daniel 7 describes 4 beasts as kingdoms or, by extension the head or ruler of that Kingdom. Each beast was the dominant kingdom/empire in their time. Daniel 7 describes four...they are commonly understood to be:
    Babylon - The Lion
    Medo-Persia - The Bear
    Greece - The Leopard
    Rome - The indescribable beast with 10 horns...in which Christ would come into the world and raise up His kingdom.

    Scripture makes no reference to a modern beast today, but using Daniel's description of what a beast is biblically it is the dominant and most powerful kingdom. We have had a few beasts rise up since Rome.

    In Daniel 8 we find that Daniel has another vision where two kingdoms are:

    Medo-Persia - The Ram

    Greece - The Goat

    I think today the USA is a beast...but if things keep going like they are, it won't be in about 15-20 years.
     
  14. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Yet that same ten horned beast is found in Rev and is destroyed by Christ at the second coming so Daniels beast cannot represent Rome because Rome fell long ago and since the second coming hasn't happened we know there is still a ten horned beast which will arise, exist a short time and be defeated by Christ. Furthermore Daniel writes that this last beast is part of a judgment by God and is cast into flames which is clearly the LOF we also find the same beast being cast into in Rev 19 not to mention that this same beast has the little horn come up after it and that's well acknowledged as the AC.

    Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
    Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
    Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
    Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
    Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
    Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
     
  15. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The Beast out of the Sea has to be born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. He's the Rev. 13 Beast. He is probably living in Greece as we speak.

    The Beast of Rev. 12 is Satan, he has access to earth and the Heavens at this point in time.

    The Beast of Rev. 17 is Apollyon, he is in the Bottomless Pit at this moment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  16. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Read Revelation 19 carefully...then read Revelation 20. See if you can note the difference.

    Follow up by reading Daniel 7:19-28.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  17. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Not so the rapture was in verses 36-42.
    Symbolic. Sun moon and stars in prophecy refer to human leaders, They all fell at the end of the tribulation of the Roman war AD 70.
    The rapture as you call it occurs in verses 36-42. after the tribulation.
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It would be helpful if you quote a Scripture with the word, "Beast" to answer your specific question.
     
  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not surprised by the many responses made here. Many come with the interpretations that the beast was fulfilled in 70AD while others are looking for some certain man who someday shall rule the whole world forcing everyone to take a physical mark. Yet no ONE did the researching on what is God's definition of the beast in Scripture.

    The Beast is a symbol representing Satan's kingdom where he is ruling over carnal of fleshly man, who is "AS" the beasts of the field rather than those conformed the image or likeness of God to not act as NATURAL man does. "Beastly!" The times when the beast is spoken of as rising up out of the sea (representing unsaved people of the world), it signifies God permitting Satan to prosper, and consequently the rise of this nefarious carnal nature in man. Actually, the symbolism of the beast itself has been around since the beginning, as "natural man" who is carnal, has corrupted the image in which he was created, and is thus made himself "as" the beasts of the field. For example, people without reason, without knowledge, and without virtue. In other words, natural man doing his own will or doing things instinctively as whatever feels good or what sounds good, as a beast does. These people are the body of Satan, as a beast!

    Acts 10:28

    • "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."
    Ecclesiastes 3:18
    • "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts."
    1 Corinthians 15:32
    • "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."
    Titus 1:12
    • "One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
    2 Peter 2:12
    • "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
    In Revelation 13 the first beast (the one with seven heads) is when Christ went to the cross, thus wounding it's head (authority or rule). However, the second beast (two horns like a lamb) is imagery specifically dealing with the time of the end when the Church will be made apostate by the body of false prophets and christs - men who professed to have the power of Christ but spoke like a dragon.

    Therefore, many people are fooled to believe that we need to look for some nation(s), empire or one man to be qualified as the beast in their doctrines, not knowing that they are being deceived by false prophets and christs like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Todd Bentley, Jack Van Impe, Joseph Prince, etc. - people make up the body of the beast today.

    So where is the beast, he is right among you.
     
  20. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Only verse 31 shows the rapture.


    It was the next verse that says they will see Jesus coming that was important because the second coming happens immediately after the trib and Jesus' second coming was not in Ad70.

    That merely avoids commenting on the obvious error I have pointed out in your exegesis.
     
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