Where is the Beast right Now

[_Dave_]

The prophecies concerning the person who becomes the Antichrist can only be in an age when transportation and knowledge and increased. Time of the end. Daniel 12:4-7.

It is one specific person in history. Israel has to be a nation again. And Jerusalem in the hands fo the Jews again.

Not knowing the Day nor Hour applies to the rapture. But since the rapture has not happened yet, it is also end times.

I basically agree with you on most everything you said. I do have a couple of comments:

About the rapture -- Even though the timing of the rapture is unknown, most conservative scholars agree that once the rapture happens the tribulation events will follow fairly soon after. It could be an hour, a week, a month, even years ... but certainly within the generation at that time. I just assumed that as a given.

About Israel -- Of course, God didn't need to wait until 1948 to return His people to the land. It could have happened at any other time in history.

About the transportation and knowledge increase -- I'm one of those who doesn't need to shoehorn every miracle in prophecy into a physical or scientific explanation. If God wants every person on earth to see a singular event before CNN comes on the scene He is certainly capable of providing that.

What did you mean: "But since the rapture has not happened yet, it is also end times."

 

[ewq1938]

Even though the timing of the rapture is unknown

It's hardly unknown. Paul said it followed the second coming and the resurrection of the dead. That is an exact timing we all can know.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

I basically agree with you on most everything you said. I do have a couple of comments:

About the rapture -- Even though the timing of the rapture is unknown, most conservative scholars agree that once the rapture happens the tribulation events will follow fairly soon after. It could be an hour, a week, a month, even years ... but certainly within the generation at that time. I just assumed that as a given.

Well we are living in the generation when the rapture will take place... simply because we are the last generation of the world existing being ruled by human kingdoms. The Kingdom of God will be setup here on earth this generation, to have dominion over all human kingdoms.

All of the prophecies concerning the person who becomes the Antichrist have to take place in the parable of the fig tree generation. Which is tied to Jerusalem being back in the hands of the Jews, as the fig tree represents Jerusalem, since Jesus cursed the fig tree as he and the disciples were entering Jerusalem that last passover week knowing he would be rejected and crucified.

Israel has to be in existence as a nation again for the person to become the Antichrist role, which is the King of Israel - instead of and against the rightful King of Israel, Jesus. "The Antichrist" is the most misused term in eschatology, both inside and outside of Christianity. Should be using "the arch villain of the end times" instead.

About Israel -- Of course, God didn't need to wait until 1948 to return His people to the land. It could have happened at any other time in history.

Everything is prophesied to happen as God knows when things will take place. The end was said by Jesus not to take place until the gospel was spread to the world. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The person who becomes the Antichrist can only be when all of the corresponding pieces to prophecy are in place.

About the transportation and knowledge increase -- I'm one of those who doesn't need to shoehorn every miracle in prophecy into a physical or scientific explanation. If God wants every person on earth to see a singular event before CNN comes on the scene He is certainly capable of providing that.

Daniel 12:4-7 doesn't say anything about what the technology makes possible. It does put a qualifier on the time of the end being when transportation and knowledge are increased. So it can't be any generation.

What did you mean: "But since the rapture has not happened yet, it is also end times."

Since we are the end times parable of the fig tree generation, and because the rapture hasn't happen yet, the rapture has to be end times. The rapture not happening yet, eliminates all past generations, in hindsight.

Luke 21:31-36

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man

Rapture in verse 36 above.

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Matthew 24:1-2 70AD
Matthew 24:3- 14 historic up to Jesus's return.
Matthew 24:15-31 end times, with verse 15 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

Luke 21:6-19 historic up to Jesus's return
Luke 21:20-23 70AD
Luke 21:24 historic to present
Luke 21:25-26 during the great tribulation, end times
Luke 21:27 Jesus's Second coming at the end of the great tribulation
Luke 21:28 end times, right now - the present
Luke 21:29-36 end times, parable of the fig tree, before the Day of the Lord.

Mark 13:1-2 70AD
Mark 13:5-13 historic to present
Mark 13:14-27 end times, with verse 14 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years
Mark 13:28-32 end times, parable of the fig tree, rapture/resurrection event, no one knows the day nor hour.
____________________________________________________________

Different from Christian eschatology, Jews in Judaism believe that the messiah could come in any generation. The Jews reject the new testament, and Jesus being the messiah.

Many Jews believe the messianic age will begin after Gog/Magog, and that the messiah will arrive then. Which their expectations will be met by the person who becomes the Antichrist.

 

[martymonster]

Where he's been since creation....within.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

I think you are taking that verse wrong. The Beast was (free on Earth and Ruler on Earth) and now is Not ..............Yet he will ascend out of the pit and be King again.

Ask yourself this question is the Beast King of the pit or just some lower middle management type stuck in the pit.

Do you really Believe the King of the pit will just bow aside to let this underling be King of the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Ask yourself this question is the Beast King of the pit or just some lower middle management type stuck in the pit.

I don't think he is either one. But the beast in the bottomless pit will ascend out of the pit before Apollyon is released.

It is not stated exactly when the beast in the bottomless pit ascends out of the pit. But what is known is that the star falling to earth in Revelation 9, having the keys to bottomless pit is Satan having been cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9.

Which the war in the second heaven takes place when the 7th trumpet sounds - after the two witnesses battle the beast in Revelation 11. So the person is already possessed by the beast (in the bottomless pit) at that point.... before Apollyon is released.


_______________________________________________________________________________

I think you are taking that verse wrong. The Beast was (free on Earth and Ruler on Earth) and now is Not ..............Yet he will ascend out of the pit and be King again.

The wording "was and is not" implies death, not incarceration.

Similar wording is used regarding Jesus in Revelation 1:4.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

which is - alive forever more.
which was - was crucified and died
which is to come - as Lord of Lords, King of Kings
_____________________________________________________________________________

Where is the bottomless pit? It is likely the great gulf (Luke 16:26)between the righteous and unrighteous in the dimension of departed souls spoken of in the story of the rich man and Lazurus. (Differently, Christians's souls go directly to heaven)

In Isaiah 14:15, hell is said to be "to the sides of the pit". So that is likey when the unclean spirit, called the beast, ascends out to possess the slain revealed man of sin (Ezekiel 28:1-10).

When the person commits the act in 2Thessalonians2:4, he will likely be temporarily possessed by Satan, to carry out the act - as he is called the son of perdition like Judas. Which will end up that God has the person killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10, for his audacious claim.

Followed up by in Isaiah 14 being in hell. It appears in Isaiah 14 to be talking about Satan in part, verses 12-14, but drifts away and seems to be talking about a man in verses 16-20, before his soul is cast out of hell.

So it is likely the beast, the unclean spirit comes out of the bottomless pit at that time and possesses the person's soul as the slain man of sin's body raises up out of the casket (likely to be what will happen since the world sees him come back to life) back to life.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Hello All

Another simple question. So where does Scripture say the Beast is now?

Well, the second beast is in the bottomless pit right now:


The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; And Shall Ascend Out Of The Bottomless Pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
• Revelation 17:8

 

[Not David]

Who cares? There are antichrists right now, even your passions might be one

 

[Douggg]

Who cares? There are antichrists right now, even your passions might be one

Are you speaking to us, or are you speaking to Jesus? He is the one who revealed what was in the book.

Passions cannot be an antichrist. It has to be a person. In 1John2:18, John likened persons in his day to the coming Antichrist - by calling them antichrists because they had departed their belief in Jesus.

If this thread topic doesn't seem important to you, don't participate in it, and find another thread you are interested in, or create a thread of your own.

 

[GingerBeer]

Under the bed!

That's where all the beasties were when I was a child

 

[Artra]

The Beast of the End Days will be like mankind's worst kidney stone that had crystallized from it's indulgence in sin. Because of that I don't believe it or he has been fully formed yet; the world stage is still being set up for the Beast's arrival, though his entrance is close. He or it must also wait to be let loose as 2 Thessalonians 2:7 foretells.

In any case, we should not speculate and go on witch hunts for the identity of this creature. It's my belief that our own hate will contribute to formation of this Beast and because of that we should continue to treat every one of our neighbors with compassion as our Lord commands us to.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

Your answer just defies what Jesus says in plain words Satan is not cast out of Heaven in the Future he is cast out of Heaven when Jesus sends out the Seventy. Jesus says so in plain language.

[17]The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"[18] And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Which matches Revelation 12:

[9] And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world -- he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.[10] And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. [11] And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

Indeed all 70 were eventually put to death for their testimony.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Hello All

Another simple question. So where does Scripture say the Beast is now?

Scripture doesn't say where now but does point to what part of the Earth he will come out of.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Doug

Your answer just defies what Jesus says in plain words Satan is not cast out of Heaven in the Future he is cast out of Heaven when Jesus sends out the Seventy. Jesus says so in plain language.

[17]The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"[18] And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Which matches Revelation 12:

[9] And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world -- he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.[10] And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. [11] And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

Indeed all 70 were eventually put to death for their testimony.

There are three heavens. The third heaven where God's throne is. The second heaven which is the cosmos. The first heaven our atmosphere.

Satan and his angels were kicked out of the third heaven when they first rebelled.

Satan and his angels still have free movement in the cosmos and upon earth. And will not be restricted to earth only, until the 7th trumpet sounds, and the war in the second heaven takes place in Revelation 12:7-9.

When Jesus said he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, He was speaking of Satan having his power on those he was inflicting removed, when the disciples healed them, expressed metaphorically like lightning from heaven. In later places in the New Testament, Satan is still called the prince, the power of the air, Ephesian 2:2.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who cares? There are antichrists right now, even your passions might be one

Under the bed!

That's where all the beasties were when I was a child

Did you make sure you didn't have the 666 mark on your scalp?

.................................

 

[Monk Brendan]

Hello All

Another simple question. So where does Scripture say the Beast is now?

Who said s/he was even born yet?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hello All

Another simple question. So where does Scripture say the Beast is now?

The enemy of God and His Church is some form of "Beast" throughout scripture. Since the Book of Revelation was written to seven churches at that time and they had the potential to calculate the number of the Beast, I would say it was a wicked leader of that time that persecuted Christians. So I image he is dead awaiting perdition.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

[parousia70]

Bear in mind this only works for those who believe the antichrist is a real person who eventually becomes indwelled by Satan and not some allegorical, mythical construct.

Bear in mind this only works when you turn “imminence” Into an allegorical, mythical construct.

 

[_Dave_]

Bear in mind this only works when you turn “imminence” I to an allegorical, mythical construct.

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain further?

 

[Not David]

Are you speaking to us, or are you speaking to Jesus? He is the one who revealed what was in the book.

Passions cannot be an antichrist. It has to be a person. In 1John2:18, John likened persons in his day to the coming Antichrist - by calling them antichrists because they had departed their belief in Jesus.

If this thread topic doesn't seem important to you, don't participate in it, and find another thread you are interested in, or create a thread of your own.

He also said nobody knows the time and the hour, so we should be worried about our present rather than inferring for something you don't even know.