Where Is America Ii - ?

[Hishandmaiden]

Bill,
killing is not all the times wrong. Imagine a scenario.
Will you kill Hitler if you are alone with him in a room, and he revealed to you his crazy plan of exterminating millions of Jews?
Surly, you could not hope to win him over by mere arguments. Which will you choose? The life of one, or the life of millions?
This is the same for Saddam. He might be another Hitler.
Of course, in all wars, innocent blood will be shed. What we can do is to pray that as little innocent blood is shed as possible.
Also, think, if Iraq is conquered, then missionaries can flood to Iraq, aren't we offering the path of freedom to those people in Iraq? Won't we be able to bring more people to Christ and free them of sin? Won't we them be very christian-like, saving millions from the danger of hell? Think, and consider what I say.

 

[Wildfire]

Well his qouting of Revelation and the destruction of Babylon is his own opinion. Him calling (you) a non-christian, I didn't see; I read that he was referring to Americans in general.
I tend to ignore comments like that.
So, let him and whoever else, say what they want; yada, yada, yada, it's only talk. This country (USA) has already begun it's plowing, and we're not finished yet.

 

[billhabing]

That word is posted in many places on the internet, it was not directed to you but to the nation and its leaders, and whoever hears. I don't know the rules about threads and thought this place was cool to post, sorry. Again that is not a personal word for you, it was given to me in a general sense. your friend Bill keep watching!!!!

 

[NoahsRaven]

I think its very dangerous to assume that America is doing the "christian" thing concerning all current events since 9/11. To assume that America acts as a "christian" nation in ANY regard is also an assumption that is not founded in any study of the WORD. Lots of pride here. And we ALL know what pride proceeds....

 

[billhabing]

I would do what my Lord and yours did and said to do Love my enemies and after obeying Jesus I would trust God to do his part. something I don't believe we have tried before. Thank you for the Comments they are helpful Love in Jesus bill Habing.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

I believe that we just had a misunderstanding here folks. I think we were talking about two different things. I was, and am trying to warn of the coming judgment, and Bill was talking about the attitude that the believers should have. I can see where our brother is coming from. Much of the fault is mine. I thought that he was attacking my christianity. He thought my words were too strong. But all the while, we were both talking about two different subjects. I was wondering why the Lord said that I was going to write. I sure could use some lessons, that's for sure. Maybe I didn't make myself very clear. It is very easy to mis-understand someone, especially on the computer. No hard feelings towards anyone, and I'm glad we can work things out. And thanks for the IM Bill.

 

[billhabing]

It is wonderfull when we realize that we are one. Could you imagine if every word that came down the pipe was true. what a mess of contradictions. Latley I am trying to understand that we all have a part of the big picture. I think this is why it is good to get together we can then see more of the pieces as we all bring ours. Thank you for your kindness this is truly a CHristian board.
Thunder you're the man. bill habing

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

I was watching "Praise the Lord" on TBN 3 or 4 nights ago, hosted by Hal Lindsey of all people. So I focused a little better attention of course, and was shocked at something one of his guests said. This man was from Canada. His name was Grant Jeffrey. Has anyone ever heard of him?? Any way, he was talking about his new book, "The War On Terror".

Hal was really praising this mans works, to the tune that no one has studied bible prophecy more than him. So I was listening to him talk about this book. I was shocked because it sounds like the Lord showed him what I have said that the Lord shared with me.

He also believes that the War of Ezekiel 38 will precede the rapture of the church, and also, He said the same thing about Iraq that me and Yauming were talking about a while back. He even has narrowed down who the countries are that invade Iraq. He also expects the War against Iraq to be before the ezekiel 38 War.

Then after he was gone, Hal said that it is very possible that a mini Gog/Magog War could precede the tribulation. That was a shocker in itself, because that is where he and I differed. Because he always said that this war is going to be in the middle of the tribulation. I think it will be both, but the second one will also be called the War of Armageddon. I will have to go get that book.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

oops - shoulda put this one on top

 

[Willis Deal]

Bill,

Jesus acted in the manner he did because he was acting as an individual in society. He had the responsibilities and obligations of a private citizen. As a private citizen we are to turn the other cheek, forgive our enemies. But what does Christ do as a world leader? Read revelation where he destroys his enemies by the sword that proceeds from his mouth. Doesn't Paul say that our leaders wield the sword as a terror to those that do evil? Clearly there is a big difference in a citizen's responsibilities and a leader's responsibilities.

Christ's words 'turn the other cheek, pray for those who use you' are to ME as an INDIVIDUAL and how I relate to those who identify themselves as MY enemy. These words DO NOT teach that I am to stand idly by and watch a thug beat up an elderly woman, or pray that he stops, or forgive him his act of violence while the victim screams for help. Neither does it teach that a government is to forsake its responsibilities to protect its citizens.

 

[Kiwi]

OK, lets get a little perspective here. Up till the state of union address Iran was not considered an enemy of the US, in fact over the last years, under the clinton administration constructive things were happening between the two countries. Iran issued a statement after the 11th september supporting the US. Yes, oil is a big part of the problem in the middle east, that is why the Gulf war was fought, to protect the Wests access to oil in kuwait, it was not for the sake of the Kuwaits themselves. The biggest, most repressive religious regime in the world is in Saudi Arabia. According to 'open doors' ministry for persecuted christians, it is the number one persecuter of christians in the world, yet it is an NATO ally. Iraq along with Libya are the most secular and free countries for christians in the middle east, Iraq even allows christian bookshops. Yet these countries are considered
'public enemy number one' by christians also, who are inflenced by political agendas. A man I know who left iraq told me what keeps Saddam in power is the US sanctions. They do not affect him at all, he can obtain whatever he wants. It is the normal people who suffer, over 50,000 children have died as a result of the santions. Which gives Saddam perfect fodder to blame the West and America and gather the population behind him, which when left to normal devices, would most likely kick him out. Just something to chew over.

 

[billhabing]

Originally posted by Willis Deal
Bill,

Jesus acted in the manner he did because he was acting as an individual in society. He had the responsibilities and obligations of a private citizen.

Actually jesus was acting as the head of anoher world, The Kingdom of God. Christians are not of this world they are in it only. If a man is a christian it does not give him the right to be two different people, he cannot lead if he has to compromise who he is. I don't believe we were ever instructed by Jesus to get involved in the politics of this world. That is becoming world or state leaders we are told to be submisive to the powers of the world that are in authority because the principal of authority is from God

I will say what the Lord has showed me, there is no way you can justify the killing of another human being in a war. The only thing that causes war are the attitude of this world, pride , selfishness, Greed etc.

In love, Bill Habing

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Originally posted by billhabing

Originally posted by Willis Deal
Bill,

Jesus acted in the manner he did because he was acting as an individual in society. He had the responsibilities and obligations of a private citizen.

Actually jesus was acting as the head of anoher world, The Kingdom of God. Christians are not of this world they are in it only. If a man is a christian it does not give him the right to be two different people, he cannot lead if he has to compromise who he is. I don't believe we were ever instructed by Jesus to get involved in the politics of this world. That is becoming world or state leaders we are told to be submisive to the powers of the world that are in authority because the principal of authority is from God

I will say what the Lord has showed me, there is no way you can justify the killing of another human being in a war. The only thing that causes war are the attitude of this world, pride , selfishness, Greed etc.

In love, Bill Habing

hello Bill,
It seems that you are trying to say that God has nothing to do with wars in the world. But in actuality, He has used war in the past and will continue to use it all the way up to the second coming of our Lord. In fact He used war more than once to Judge His beloved Israel. Read the book of Joshua, it is full of such things.

I didn't bring this topic up because I love war, or anything like that brother. And also, I am not encouraging christians to join in this fight, or war. I am (not) referring to the U.S. as American Christians, thus saying this will be a holy war. That is not my idea at all. And also brother, I am not getting excited, or looking forward to any of this. But whether you like it or not, wars are decreed all the way to the end of the age.

But I do get excited that these are the signs that point to the soon coming of our Lord Jesus. Although the times we live in are very evil, it is very exciting to know that Jesus said, "When you see these things begin to happen, look up, your redemption draws near". And soon we will be going home !!

 

[Willis Deal]

Bill,

Human life is precious, and not to be taken lightly. When you take the life of an unjust man you take away for eternity his ability to choose, to repent, and be saved. Quite often the 'enemy' is a scared kid who may not know why he is there and his main concern is to live through the day. War is a horrible thing and not something we should take any pleasure in. On these points I believe we can agree.

But we were born in a world that is torn with war, both physical and spiritual. And as long as there are evil men in power there will always be some who engage in war to satisfy their own ego and lust of the flesh.

Even the angels in heaven are engaged in warfare, and God himself has commanded that people go to war when the circumstances warrant it.

 

[billhabing]

It is my understanding that although I am in the world I am not of the world Jesus is My lord and I can't see him killing anyone, I am governed by the Kingdom of God which is explained in the Gospels, but ulimately the Spirit is our source of truth.

We can agree to disagree and still be Brothers. It takes us all to make up the body of Christ.

Bill

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello Bill,
So are we, not of this world. We are in the Kingdom of God. We are waiting for our King. Israel is still waiting for her King (Messiah), and they are one and the same. We are watching and waiting for Him, just like He commanded us to. I would also point out to you friend, that this is the End times, (Prophecy), News and Current Events Forum. We are discussing prophecy here. Events that are in our near future that have been spoken of by the Lords own prophets. If you don't like prophecy, they also have many other Forums to choose from, like Fellowship for example.

Also brother Bill, you said that the Lord revealed something to you?? What was it?? Maybe you could start your own thread. But if the Lord laid something on your heart, He would probably want you to share it. Remember, we are all one in Him. I would encourage you to share it, it just might bless us. See you around !!

 

[billhabing]

I have no scripture to back it up with so I will not post, and I sorry if I messed up this discussion, I don't know the rules, please excuse me, late

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

I posted this thread 6 hours before President Bush gave his "State of the Union Address", when he enlighten us about the "Axis of Evil". I had a strong hunch that it would be revisited. Has anyone noticed our gas prices skyrocketing lately, DUH?? I just heard on the news that Saddam Hussein is calling for all the Arabs to punish the U.S. with their oil supply, because the U.S. backs Israel.

 

[billhabing]

You are right, God is using your president to straighten out the mess this world is in. There is no point in my saying any more. It is wrong to think that the majority coul be mistaken.

 

[davo]

Well folks, with all the dramas going on around the world and particulary the middle east remember this: "The Bible does not play favorites," and "End the occupation and you end the violence." -pretty simple!

davo