• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Where Is America Ii - ?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by rollinTHUNDER, Jan 29, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +9
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Hello davo,
    I never said or implied that the world would ever end. But I do believe it will be renewed, or remodelled if you will. This current world is passing away, and needs to be re-charged. There will be NO short shelf life, that's only in YOUR mind. This sinful world is approaching it's end, and Jesus is about to come and take the reigns for a thousand years, and THEN will the new heavens and earth come, after the 1000 yr reign. You gotta have faith.
     
  2. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    Rev. 21:1
    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    Ro 3:4
    God forbid *: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
     
  3. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +9
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Hello RKF,
    parousia, ManifestationA.D.70, GW and davo believe that we are already living in the new earth, and that all prophecy has been fulfilled already in 70 A.D.

    But there goes that theory, as we can see, the land is only 1/3 of the earth, and 2/3 sea's.
     
  4. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    G'day RFK -this is a little off topic from the thread, but pertinent to the scriptures you raised.


    The idea of "no more sea" primarily carries the thought of "no more separation." There a few instances -in Rev 1:9 John experiences exile (separation -surrounded by sea) on Patmos, yet in the "new creation" (Rev 21) there is no such separation -the sea is gone. That is, if you can see the new heavens and new earth being the "new creation" i.e., the "new birth" -"if anyone 'be in Christ' they are a NEW CREATION" 2Cor 5:17. Also, "the sea" scripturally speaking can be seen as a reference to the "Gentile nations" -those separated from God. The proclamation against gentile Syria in Isaiah is a case in point:

    Isa 17:12 (NKJV) Woe to the multitude of many people, Who make a noise like the roar of the seas, And to the rushing of nations that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!

    or

    Isa 57:20 (NKJV) But the wicked are like the troubled sea, When it cannot rest, Whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

    So, Isaiah describes the wicked/gentiles as "the sea/waters." Returning now to Revelation 17 we find this:

    Rev 17:15 (NKJV) Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

    Rev 13:1 can also be seen in this light.

    Those outside of covenant with God are like the wild roaring seas –tossed to-and-fro. The passage of Eph 2:11-17 (read it) speaks of this whole "separation" that is done away with through the power of the Cross, which is the gospel of Christ.

    John is describing in Rev 21 the new life of the new covenant. The Greek word “new” here is “kainos” which means ‘new in quality’ not physicality.

    RFK, being a student of the Word as you must be, it may help to try and view the Revelation through the eyes of the Gospel, instead of current world circumstances.

    Blessings.

    davo
     
  5. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    GW, Boy are you going to be surprized in a couple of years!! When exactly did the heavens and earth burn up with a ferverent heat? Never mind don't bother answering that, because you apparently have no grasp on the scriptures. There is one flaw in your plan Revelations was written after most if not all the apostles were dead.
     
  6. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +9
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    This is a perfect example of learning the scriptures without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. John is not trying to describe his separation, and he is not giving a testimony about himself. This has nothing to do with John. It is about the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, and it was sent by an angel to John, one of Christ's servants.
     
  7. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    And to add to RT's post, if the sea is symbolic then we must rely upon the scripture to interpret the symbolism: sea = peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

    So, if sea is symbolic and prophecy is fulfilled then there are no peoples, multitudes, nations, or tongues. If prophecy is fulfilled and sea is not symbolic then how do we explain all the water? either way, davo, you just shot yourself in the foot.
     
  8. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    With all due respect rollin', I think you are 'missing the woods for the trees.' There is little value in sprouting your opinion (which is your right) without Scriptural backup for what you say. Besides which, I'm responding to Ron who hopefully will dig into the Scriptures, unlike yourself. It's not my job to convince him or anyone else for that matter; however this is a forum for sharing ideas etc, obviously I believe what I do (and you likewise) so there must be a means of explaining where we're at scripturally -does that make sense?

    davo
     
  9. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    Not really Willis, the separation is to do with the "Gentiles" and a gentile was anyone not in covenant relationship with Yahweh -hense separated from Him. In the New Creation (of which Ron was relating re Rev 21) there is now NO SEPARATION in Christ, so covenantally speaking "no more Gentiles" i.e., separated ones.

    Again, this "creation" language is best understood through the Gospel i.e., the rebirth -"if any man be in Christ he is a new creation". Always go with what Scripture does say, instead of what it doesn't say.

    Eph 2:11-22 (NKJV) 11Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

    Eph 3:5-6 (NKJV) 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

    davo
     
  10. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    Davo are you a preterest? If so that would explain your views
     
  11. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    Yes Ron, you could describe me as a Preterist, Transmillennialist, Pantelist or just someone who believes in "Fulfilled Prophecy" -aren't labels a pain :wave:

    davo
     
  12. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    End the occupation thing......That's so far from the truth.
    These two would fight over anything they hate each other!!
     
  13. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0

    How can you beleive that the prophecies are fulfilled when the world that we live in is changing toward what the Bible describes?
     
  14. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    That's true Ron, but it's the one thing Israel hasn't tried.
    It all comes down to sibling rivalry, they're brothers you know -both have Abraham as their father.
     
  15. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    G'day Ron.

    The Bible (NT) actually describes the world of 1st century Judaism/Christianity. Of course we learn from and apply the principles and truths of that which was written specifically to them then (just as we learn lessons from the OT as well), as "truths" are timeless -however prophecy is complete and we live in the benefits of that today.

    1 Corinthians 10:11 (NKJV) 11Now all these things happened to them (OT saints) as examples, and they were written for our admonition (NT saints), upon whom the ends of the ages have come. (emphasis mine) -notice Paul writes in the "present" tense, not "will come" but "have come."

    As Rev 14:13 says:
    "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."

    When Jesus returned things changed.

    davo
     
  16. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Wow. That's some fine allegorical work. Amazing spiritualizing going on.

    America is quite simply not anywhere in scripture. All attempts to force it in there are allegorical, de-contextual, and anachronistic. The prophets would be shocked to see how their writings are being abused by various generations of the past few hundred years. LOL.

    God bless.
     
  17. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    It is you that will be very surprised when a couple years brings about nothing. In fact, you will live out your entire lifetime and go to your predestined grave and nothing even remotely related to the endtimes will take place. That's because the APOSTLES lived in the last days generation and they taught this as absolute truth (Heb 1:1-2; 1 Cor 10:11; 1 Peter 1:20; Acts 2:15-17; Heb 9:26; James 5:3).

    Next, Jesus said that even the very least of the commands of the Law of Moses were to be kept and obeyed until Heaven and Earth passed away (Matt 5:17-19). Well, in AD 70 not any of even the very greatest of the commands given in the Law of Moses were capable of being obeyed -- therefore we KNOW Heaven and Earth has passed away. As Charles Spurgeon also wrote:


    C.H. Spurgeon
    "Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).


    Finally, the evidence is OVERWHELMING that Revelation was written during Caesar Nero's reign which ended in AD 68. Kenneth Gentry's "Before Jerusalem Fell" is the definitive book that addresses the dating of the book and has proven that the early-date view is the correct one.
     
  18. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    So this coming one world government is what, fiction?
    Jesus coming back, again Fiction? or happened already?
    Armageddion, I suppose this has happened too?
     
  19. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    Ron, here's something to consider about espousing wonderous schemes and theories etc:

    Isaiah 8:12 (NIV) "Do not call conspiracy everything that these people call conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it." -advise that some here could do well to follow.

    If you're wandering what the Bible actual says about the "New Age" the "One World Government" the "New World Order" then check out this:

    Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    (7)Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Jesus Rules!! :clap:

    davo
     
  20. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    I have read many of your beliefs RKF, and, yes, they are fiction -- just like the Left Behind series.

    I strongly recommend that people read a book that is NOT fiction, but is a biblical analysis of the Left Behind Theology. The following book shows the Left Behind Theology to be a whole system of myths spun together in tabloid fashion based on newspaper headlines and forcing those headlines into scripture.

    Endtimes Fiction: A Biblical Consideration of the Left Behind Theology
    by Gary DeMar [Thomas Nelson Publishers]
    CLICK HERE
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...