Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Major1]

There is no [second] rapture; the resurrection is the "rapture" - but that is at the end.


Do you think God is going to scoop us up and remove us from His wrath on those that forsake His commandments and make a mockery of Him? When has God ever removed someone completely from a terrible time? God always pushes us through terrible times if only to be a witness.

Noah saw the literal end of the world, and God didn't swoop him up in one of the chariots in which Enoch went: why is a generation that is more vile than Noah's going to be raptured when the EIGHT people who remained righteous did not get raptured?

This is part of a delusion - and it may even be the One God Himself said He would send on us - so that we would believe a lie. The rapture, and not following commandments of God have become huge problems of false doctrine IMO. Think about what would make people at Judgment Day say to Christ, "I prayed to you and did all this stuff for you Christ," to which He replies, "I never knew you."

#1. NO.

#2. YES.

#3. In fact God did scoop up Noah and his family with a boat and delivered then from God's wrath. That is a "type" of Rapture just as was Enoch which you accepted.

#4. The timing of the Rapture sparks a great debate within Christianity. Does it occur before, during, or after the tribulation period? The tribulation is a seven-year period that immediately precedes the return of Christ and the establishment of His millennial kingdom, which lasts for 1,000 years. The first 3 & 1/2 years of the tribulation will be a time of peace and cooperation, and the second 3 & 1/2 years of the tribulation will be a time of war and catastrophe. At the midpoint of the tribulation, the Antichrist will proclaim himself god and require worship from all people of the world.

Many will bow down and worship the Antichrist, including taking his mark of worldwide registration. Some will refuse to worship the Antichrist and receive his mark, and many will be killed for this act of disobedience. The second half of the tribulation is referred to as the "Great Tribulation." There will be extraordinary catastrophes all over the world during this period. (For scriptural support, see Revelation 3:10, Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 17).

So, the main debate on the Rapture is not what it is, but when it will occur in relation to the tribulation.

In summary, the pre-tribulation view is that the rapture will happen before the tribulation period; the mid-tribulation view is that the rapture will occur half-way through the tribulation period; and the post-tribulation view is that the rapture will occur at the end of the tribulation period.

IMO, the one of those 3 options which make any sense is the pre-tribulation Rapture.

But of course you are free to believe as you wish.

 

[Kaon]

#1. NO.

#2. YES.

#3. In fact God did scoop up Noah and his family with a boat and delivered then from God's wrath. That is a "type" of Rapture just as was Enoch which you accepted.

People believe humans will leave PLANET EARTH, or THIS DIMENSION during the tribulation - that is not true, and a deception. God did not rapture Noah; Noah had to witness the entire end of the world.

Enoch was taken (different word, connotation, denotation, etc.) because he was righteous. That isn't about saving a bunch of unrighteous people from cataclysmic disaster that is deserving.

#4. The timing of the Rapture sparks a great debate within Christianity. Does it occur before, during, or after the tribulation period? The tribulation is a seven-year period that immediately precedes the return of Christ and the establishment of His millennial kingdom, which lasts for 1,000 years. The first 3 & 1/2 years of the tribulation will be a time of peace and cooperation, and the second 3 & 1/2 years of the tribulation will be a time of war and catastrophe. At the midpoint of the tribulation, the Antichrist will proclaim himself god and require worship from all people of the world.

Many will bow down and worship the Antichrist, including taking his mark of worldwide registration. Some will refuse to worship the Antichrist and receive his mark, and many will be killed for this act of disobedience. The second half of the tribulation is referred to as the "Great Tribulation." There will be extraordinary catastrophes all over the world during this period. (For scriptural support, see Revelation 3:10, Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 17).

So, the main debate on the Rapture is not what it is, but when it will occur in relation to the tribulation.

In summary, the pre-tribulation view is that the rapture will happen before the tribulation period; the mid-tribulation view is that the rapture will occur half-way through the tribulation period; and the post-tribulation view is that the rapture will occur at the end of the tribulation period.

IMO, the one of those 3 options which make any sense is the pre-tribulation Rapture.

But of course you are free to believe as you wish.

I was entertaining the nomenclature when I said the rapture would happen at the end. In fact, there is no such thing as a "rapture" as we know it. It is a delusion; God is not going to save us from witnessing His judgments. He never has in the history of His people. God, rather, guides His people through the calamity for the purposes of witnessing and repentance.


Do you think we deserve to be taken? No human deserves anything God does, and His Grace is certainly sufficient enough - especially when coupled with the sacrifice of Christ.


That doesn't mean you stop following His commandments He set up - that His Perfect Son followed. Are we too good to do the same thing Christ did?

 

[precepts]

True. But I knew nothing about your background, ao supplied LITTLE bit of information about origin of the word "Rapture."

You're welcome!

You're missing the point. My question was where in "Revelation" is the rapture mentioned, not about the origin of the word in the scriptures.

 

[seventysevens]

Truly funny , of course you have an opinion - but no true understanding of what scripture actually says for if you did you would not say such a thing

People believe humans will leave PLANET EARTH, or THIS DIMENSION during the tribulation - that is not true, and a deception. God did not rapture Noah; Noah had to witness the entire end of the world.

Enoch was taken (different word, connotation, denotation, etc.) because he was righteous. That isn't about saving a bunch of unrighteous people from cataclysmic disaster that is deserving.




I was entertaining the nomenclature when I said the rapture would happen at the end. In fact, there is no such thing as a "rapture" as we know it. It is a delusion; God is not going to save us from witnessing His judgments. He never has in the history of His people. God, rather, guides His people through the calamity for the purposes of witnessing and repentance.


Do you think we deserve to be taken? No human deserves anything God does, and His Grace is certainly sufficient enough - especially when coupled with the sacrifice of Christ.


That doesn't mean you stop following His commandments He set up - that His Perfect Son followed. Are we too good to do the same thing Christ did?

 

[Kaon]

Truly funny , of course you have an opinion - but no true understanding of what scripture actually says for if you did you would not say such a thing

Ok.

 

[keras]

Ok.

Ask Seventysevens to post his 'rapture to heaven' scripture.
True understanding comes from the actual Words of scripture, not from assumptions, inferences and flat out misapplication of the prophesies, as the 'rapture' believers have to do to make their fanciful theory work.

 

[Douggg]

You're missing the point. My question was where in "Revelation" is the rapture mentioned, not about the origin of the word in the scriptures.

The Rapture is represented by John being called "come up hither'' in Revelation 4:1 sounding like a trumpet before being shown what takes place during the seven years. The same terminology is used in Revelation 11 for the two witnesses.

In the 1Thessalonians4:13-18 resurrection/rapture, John represents the living, and the two witnesses represent the resurrection of the dead both hearing the "come up hither".

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Jesus said "Lazarus, come forth".

 

[BABerean2]

The Rapture is represented by John being called "come up hither'' in Revelation 4:1 sounding like a trumpet before being shown what takes place during the seven years. The same terminology is used in Revelation 11 for the two witnesses.

In the 1Thessalonians4:13-18 resurrection/rapture, John represents the living, and the two witnesses represent the resurrection of the dead both hearing the "come up hither".

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Jesus said "Lazarus, come forth".

There is a big difference between Revelation 4 and Revelation 11.

"And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud..." is found in Revelation 11, but not in chapter 4.

There are some verses in the Book of Revelation where John sees scenes in heaven and other scenes where John sees scenes on earth.

Who would suggest that John is going back and forth between heaven and earth like a yo-yo in the Book of Revelation?


.

 

[seventysevens]

I was entertaining the nomenclature when I said the rapture would happen at the end. In fact, there is no such thing as a "rapture" as we know it. It is a delusion; God is not going to save us from witnessing His judgments.

Harpazo is the original Greek word in scripture which was translated into Latin as raperium , rapiemur . rapio and then translated into English as rapture , they all mean the same thing referring to the sudden unexpected snatching away, catching away ,caught away suddenly by force and taken to another location

Strong’s Concordance
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo)
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.
HELPS Word-studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).

You believe as you desire as you have a freewill to do so , but you lack wisdom in understanding what scripture teaches .
Scripture does not teach how to grow wheat , barley or grapes but it uses these as analogies to teach Gods harvests of saints because that is how the people could understand the teaching as nothing like that had ever been spoken - so the Lord chose to use a harvest practice the people were already aware of of understood of how it works

There are those who feel a degree of machismo that all must go through the GT , but God gives his detail in the Jewish harvests , but if you follow the folly of those like keras you will get your wish to go through the GT as the Lord is only protecting those who believe His word and when you don't well that is on you. Numerous times God said stand still and watch Him do the work , even when the saints come from heaven with the angels and Jesus at Jesus 2nd coming it is only Jesus who puts an end the the calamity that is happening on earth as the saints and angels are watching Jesus handle it by himself
There are 3 harvests , 1 prior to the GT , 1 after it begins and 1 after it happens as it is a gathering of all collectively to one place on earth .
But you can believe whatever you desire

these links may not be the best but will provide enough info to study more deeply - IF you actually want to learn - but as been shown by those mentioned they have a hardened heart with much pride and arrogance that they refuse to learn as their pride and arrogance does not allow it
THE HARVEST CYCLE AND THE HOLIDAYS OF PESACH, SHAVUOTH AND SUCCOTH
The 3-Fold Harvest

 

[precepts]

The Rapture is represented by John being called "come up hither'' in Revelation 4:1 sounding like a trumpet before being shown what takes place during the seven years. The same terminology is used in Revelation 11 for the two witnesses.

In the 1Thessalonians4:13-18 resurrection/rapture, John represents the living, and the two witnesses represent the resurrection of the dead both hearing the "come up hither".

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Jesus said "Lazarus, come forth".

Give me a break! You're embellishing the facts speculating, which is the spirit of antichrist:

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jo 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[Major1]

People believe humans will leave PLANET EARTH, or THIS DIMENSION during the tribulation - that is not true, and a deception. God did not rapture Noah; Noah had to witness the entire end of the world.

Enoch was taken (different word, connotation, denotation, etc.) because he was righteous. That isn't about saving a bunch of unrighteous people from cataclysmic disaster that is deserving.




I was entertaining the nomenclature when I said the rapture would happen at the end. In fact, there is no such thing as a "rapture" as we know it. It is a delusion; God is not going to save us from witnessing His judgments. He never has in the history of His people. God, rather, guides His people through the calamity for the purposes of witnessing and repentance.


Do you think we deserve to be taken? No human deserves anything God does, and His Grace is certainly sufficient enough - especially when coupled with the sacrifice of Christ.


That doesn't mean you stop following His commandments He set up - that His Perfect Son followed. Are we too good to do the same thing Christ did?

There is no way that I or anyone else could ever sway your opinion. YOU see what YOU want to see because of a preconceived theology that you have learned.

I will however say to you that the Biblical fact is that the pre-tribulation Rapture
is the only teaching which can be validated and supported by the literal understanding of the Bible. I would also say to you the argument over the timing of the event is not based in logic or Scripture but instead on "emotionalism".

However, when we read and study the context of all the Scriptures in reference to the Ark that God told Noah to make, it is clear that it is a powerful picture of the saving grace and protection of the Lord Jesus.

Hebrews 1:1 says......
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets."

The Ark is a type of Jesus Christ as all who chose who enter the Ark would be saved just as all who enter Christ will be saved. Its final fulfillment is the Rapture of the Bride of Jesus Christ just before the Tribulation.

John 5:39..........
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

2 Corinthians 3:14-16..........
"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord,the vail shall be taken away."

Then just to seal the deal so to speak, before Jesus spoke of the conditions of the world in Noah's day and how they parallel His day and he says in Matthew 24:36........
"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no,not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

YES, Enoch was TAKEN. YES Elijah was TAKEN and both are a picture/type of Rapture.
Many Bible scholars believe that they will be the TWO witnesses in Rev. 11:3-12 and they were removed in preparation of that role. There is no direct evidence of that being the case though I for one believe it is possible as the Bible says in Hebrews that "we all have an appointment with death".

Now do we DESERVE to be removed before all hell breaks loose on the earth?
...NO! .....Did you deserve to be saved?

Why do some then deny the Rapture? The reality is that the Grace of God is beyond the ability of our guilt-laden minds to comprehend, and for many, it’s too much to even hope for. When our dreams exceed the limits of our imaginations, we’re more likely to fear the consequences of failure than to anticipate the rewards of success. A post-trib rapture, or even none at all, becomes the safer alternative.
The Holy Spirit And The Rapture – Grace thru faith

 

[Major1]

Give me a break! You're embellishing the facts speculating which is the spirit of antichrist:

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jo 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Since YOU deny the Rapture and it is certainly your choice to do so and I respect your choice, however I am curious how YOU would explain these Scriptures in 1 Thess. 4:13-18..........
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the LORD shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Can you explain your position BIBLICALLY: and so shall we ever be with the LORD. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Now Revelation 20:5-6 tells us that .........
"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years".

So we see if there is a FIRST Resurrection then there will be a SECOND Resurrection which is the SECOND DEATH.

Can you explain your position BIBLICALLY??

 

[Major1]

There is a big difference between Revelation 4 and Revelation 11.

"And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud..." is found in Revelation 11, but not in chapter 4.

There are some verses in the Book of Revelation where John sees scenes in heaven and other scenes where John sees scenes on earth.

Who would suggest that John is going back and forth between heaven and earth like a yo-yo in the Book of Revelation?


.

Yes sir.....they are 3 & 1/2 years apart fore one thing.

A second thing is that chapter 4 is about a LOT of people. Chapter 5 is a continuation of the heavenly throne room scene and in Rev. 5:9 we clearly see.............
And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation".

The only ones who could be redeemed would be the CHURCH and it appears that they are in heaven.

Chapter 11 only concerns TWO people.

 

[Postvieww]

Yes sir.....they are 3 & 1/2 years apart fore one thing.

A second thing is that chapter 4 is about a LOT of people. Chapter 5 is a continuation of the heavenly throne room scene and in Rev. 5:9 we clearly see.............
And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation".

The only ones who could be redeemed would be the CHURCH and it appears that they are in heaven.

Chapter 11 only concerns TWO people.

Revelation 5:9 is a declaration of what Christ accomplished, it is not showing of a group of raptured saints in heaven!

The first mention of “souls in heaven” is in Revelation 6:9 and they are not raptured saints!


ASV Revelation 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

10 and madest THEMto be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and THEY reign upon the earth.

 

[Postvieww]

I will however say to you that the Biblical fact is that the pre-tribulation Rapture
is the only teaching which can be validated and supported by the literal understanding of the Bible. I would also say to you the argument over the timing of the event is not based in logic or Scripture but instead on "emotionalism".

Shall we understand these passages literal?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[Major1]

Ask Seventysevens to post his 'rapture to heaven' scripture.
True understanding comes from the actual Words of scripture, not from assumptions, inferences and flat out misapplication of the prophesies, as the 'rapture' believers have to do to make their fanciful theory work.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 ......
“Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.”

 

[Douggg]

Give me a break! You're embellishing the facts speculating which is the spirit of antichrist:

I quoted directly from the bible and you have a problem with it? I didn't add any words to the verses I quoted.

Jesus said come forth, Lazarus. Therefore, is it not reasonable to think the person saying come up hither for John, representing the living, and the two witnesses representing the dead in Christ, is Jesus's voice?

btw, you need to go back and review what John was referring to regarding the spirit of antichrist. The spirit of antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Douggg]

.

 

[precepts]

Since YOU deny the Rapture and it is certainly your choice to do so and I respect your choice, however I am curious how YOU would explain these Scriptures in 1 Thess. 4:13-18..........
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the LORD shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Can you explain your position BIBLICALLY: and so shall we ever be with the LORD. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Now Revelation 20:5-6 tells us that .........
"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years".

So we see if there is a FIRST Resurrection then there will be a SECOND Resurrection which is the SECOND DEATH.

Can you explain your position BIBLICALLY??

Let me put it this way. There is no verse in the scriptures that speaks of anybody being left behind, period.

First Thess. 4 does not say only the righteous are risen and taken. Plus the context of the book of Revelation's 1st resurrection is heaven: God's throne set in the temple that is in heaven; Souls found under the altar of the temple that's in heaven; A priest takes incense/prayers from the altar of incense, of the temple that's in heaven; etc.

And the clincher is 2 Pet 3, proving Christ only returns on the day of judgement when the new heavenly heaven and heavenly earth occurs, when those that where standing there taste death when they witness the kingdom of Christ coming, the new Yah-ru-Shalem coming down from the heavens of heaven and replacing the old heavenly city where the temple in heaven was.

 

[Major1]

Shall we understand these passages literal?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I Do! Why wouldn't anyone?????

Was the Garden of Eden literal or symbolic?
Was the parting of the Red sea literal or symbolic?
Was the Lord speaking out of a burning bush literal or symbolic?
Was Jonah's fish literal or symbolic?

IMO, when the LITERAL meaning makes the most sense then that is what I accept.
The Bible will tell you when something is symbolic or a metaphor.

Isaiah 13:9-10............
"Behold, the Day of the Lord, is coming, cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make the land a desolation; and He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light. The sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shed its light."

Is that symbolic?????

Zeph. 1:14-15.............
"The great Day of the Lord, is near and coming very quickly. Listen, theDay of the Lord.! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A Day of wrath is that Day, A Day of trouble and distress, A Day of destruction and desolation, A Day of darkness and gloom, A DayDay of clouds and thick darkness".