• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Where do we find the incarnation addressed in the Qur'an?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by GeorgeTwo, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    Highly unlikely Jesus pbuh said these words. If God had given Jesus pbuh authority over "ALL" people then you would have expected him to have at least been accepted by the very people he was sent to, the Israelites, yet he preached for a mere 1 - 3.5 years and was rejected by the vast majority of them.

    Notice too John believed Jesus pbuh was sent by the ONLY true God, and prayed to his God that people might accept he was sent by Him. Pours cold water on the notion of God being incarnate.
     
  2. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    You say Mohammed was given authority by God yet, he was never accepted in his own city until he conquered it with an army some 10 years after his first supposed revelation. Jesus was given full authority by God, yet obviously arrogance and the whispers of Satan get the better of mankind. Jesus was sent by the only true God, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the true God. Jesus was God the Son incarnate and since their is a heirarchy in the trinity of which the Father is supreme in authority, we get that he sent God the Son to be incarnated as a man. So on the contrary the water being poured is more then warm.
     
  3. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    “They call us Hetaeriasts, or Associators, because, they say, we introduce an associate with God by declaring Christ to the Son of God and God. We say to them in rejoinder: “The Prophets and the Scriptures have delivered this to us, and you, as you persistently maintain, accept the Prophets. So, if we wrongly declare Christ to be the Son of God, it is they who taught this and handed it on to us.” But some of them say that it is by misinterpretation that we have represented the Prophets as saying such things, while others say that the Hebrews hated us and deceived us by writing in the name of the Prophets so that we might be lost. And again we say to them: “As long as you say that Christ is the Word of God and Spirit, why do you accuse us of being Hetaeriasts? For the word, and the spirit, is inseparable from that in which it naturally has existence. Therefore, if the Word of God is in God, then it is obvious that He is God. If, however, He is outside of God, then, according to you, God is without word and without spirit. Consequently, by avoiding the introduction of an associate with God you have mutilated Him. It would be far better for you to say that He has an associate than to mutilate Him, as if you were dealing with a stone or a piece of wood or some other inanimate object. Thus, you speak untruly when you call us Hetaeriasts; we retort by calling you Mutilators of God.”

    —St John of Damascus, On Heresies
     
  4. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

    994
    +275
    Muslim
    Married
    You wonder why I quote Darrel Pack.

    There are members of this Forum who are convinced that Muslims a) either don’t know their own Book, or b) will lie in order to misrepresent certain of its teachings (or both!). :eek:

    It may be that certain of these folk are reading our correspondence. If they won’t trust the word of a Muslim, maybe they will trust one of their own!
     
  5. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    I’m sure most Muslims know their book just not it’s history or how your actually supposed to interpret it. Many people on these forums due to bad impressions of Muslims, as most people including me have seen Muslims repeatedly manipulate Biblical verses to fit their point or even changed the meaning of Quranic or Hadith passages to fit their point. So many of us here (not including me) view Muslims with untrustworthiness
     
  6. GeorgeTwo

    GeorgeTwo Member

    +115
    Methodist
    Private
    Jesus was accepted by many Jews. YHWH is the only true God as opposed to idols.



    2 Chronicles 15:



    3 For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach and without the law. 4 But in their distress they turned to the LORD, the God of Israel, and sought him, and he was found by them. (Israel was worshiping idols then.)



    The true God vs idols.



    Jeremiah
    10 But the LORD is the true God;
    he is the living God, the eternal King.
    When he is angry, the earth trembles;
    the nations cannot endure his wrath.

    11 "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.' "





    The true God vs idols.



    1 Thessalonians 1:9
    9for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,



    The true God vs idols


    1 John 5:20-21
    20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.


    True God vs idols


    John 17:3


    John 17:3 (New International Version)
    3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


    True God vs false gods/idols



    Jesus is saying there is only one God/Creator -- YHWH. He is not saying that YHWH's Word and YHWH's Spirit are not God.
     
  7. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    I was talking about Jesus pbuh.

    He gave himself authority?

    I'm confused. According to your belief, Jesus pbuh created mankind and Satan, then wishes he would give himself authority to be accepted by his creation?

    So do you mean Gods as in believe there are 3 gods?

    The confusion is growing, I agree.
     
  8. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    In the NT Jesus pbuh never referred to the letters YHWH. On the cross he called out to ALLAHA.
     
  9. GeorgeTwo

    GeorgeTwo Member

    +115
    Methodist
    Private
    Jesus called YHWH Father.

    Are you referring to My God, My God, why hast thou fosaken Me?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  10. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    Jesus was given authority from God the Father, each person of the Trinity is not the other person. God created mankind, one of the persons of God, the Son who is Jesus became a normal man thus had to be regimen divine authority from the Father. So according to our belief one of the persons of God lowered himself to the place of his own creations thus needed divine authority from the Father. I mean Persons of one God, each divine person co eternally making one God in which the Father is supreme in authority. The confusion is only in your erroneous understanding of Christian beliefs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  11. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    Allaha or Elohim means god as you remember Satan aswell as false gods are called Elohim in the Bible. Elohim is a term for God since Jews are not allowed to say the Tetragrammaton in prayer or in daily life and speech. Furthermore if your trying to say he was calling out to the Islamic Allah. I’d like you to define to me the meaning of Allah, as it’s not a name, but a title which can be used for any deity and literally means The God.
     
  12. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    What you are explaining here makes no logical sense whatsoever. Given that GOD is not the author of confusion, it looks like you are worshipping 3 separate gods with ONE Supreme God above the over 2. Don't get me wrong, you can believe what you like, but this is not Monothesism as taught by Prophets like Abraham, Moses, Isaac, Ishmael, Jesus or Muhammad, peace be upon them all.

    You can argue this is not the Christian belief, but anyone looking in can plainly see, you are fooling no one but yourselves and deep down you must know this.
     
  13. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    When you speak to any Arabic speaking person, be it Jew, Christian or Muslim they know ALLAH is clearly referring to The ONE and Only True GOD, if they were talking about Satan and any other false idol/god of this world, they would say 'ilah'. Can you show me where Jesus pbuh called Satan ALLAHA using the Aramaic NT?
     
  14. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    Yes
     
  15. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    That’s a big claim because your speaking to an Arabic speaking Christian. Jews and Christians use it to mean the Abrahamic God it doesn’t necessarily have to be sued for the Abrahamic God as it’s real definition just means The God. 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul describes Satan as the god of this word, using the word Theos, the Greek equivalent of Elohim. In Deuteronomy 6:14 God says to not follow other gods (Elohim). Linguistically Allah means The God, a title used for the Abrahamic or Islamic God, or in pre Islamic times for the supreme pagan god of Arabia.

    https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/4-4.htm


    https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/6-14.htm
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  16. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    If I’m worshipping more then one God each would have had a seperate nature, rather the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are inseparable by nature. This is Christian belief, the Trinity and trinitarian Baptism formula is mentioned by the early Church, the Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:3. Monotheism as taught by the prophets is the worship of one God. The trinity doesn’t advocate the worship of more then one deity, rather what it teaches is monotheism with three persons co eternally one God. So far in my time, you Muslims and Jehovah’s Witness are the only ones who accuse us of worshipping more then one God yet you can’t prove the Trinity to be the worship of more then One God. Since the Trinity is pretty clear when it says there are three distinct persons who co eternally are one God, not three gods. That’s called Tritheism a heretical Polytheistic view of the trinity which is condemned by the Church.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  17. GeorgeTwo

    GeorgeTwo Member

    +115
    Methodist
    Private
    Jesus was quoting Psalm 22. He was speaking Aramaic, not Arabic.
     
  18. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    And when you mention The GOD, in Arabic it always referes to ALLAH. If you said that you worshipped a ilah, then people would ask which ilah?

    Does the Aramaic term ALAHA mean The GOD, a God or something else?

    The Supreme GOD of Arabia as worshipped by Abraham and Ishmael pbut before Muhammad pbuh started preaching was called ALLAH.
     
  19. Yi-man

    Yi-man Member

    150
    +22
    United Kingdom
    Muslim
    Married
    GOD tells us He alone is immortal, there is nothing equal to Him, nothing like Him. He further tells us He is not a man. He posesses ALL Power, Knowledge and Wisdom. Jesus pbuh according to you was not immortal, he dies on the cross, had limited knowledge and by himself could do NOTHING. Please prove Jesus pbuh and the Holy Spirit for that matter are co equal with GOD. Remember you can't spilt Jesus pbuh into 2 natures, because the Church also tells YOU Jesus pbuh is 100% man and 100% divine ALL of the time.
     
  20. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,986
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    We reffer to God as Allah in Arabic as a title, while we know he revealed his real name as the four letters of YHWH. Allaha is also used by heretical offshoots of the Abrahamic faiths like Yazidism, would you say they are worshipping the God of Abraham? The Aramaic term Allaha means deity or god, it corresponds to the Greek word Theos in the New Testament. The Supreme God of Arabia was equated by ancient Arabs like the Nabateans to the Greek Zeus, as we can see the Nabateans try to portray their supreme diets like Zeus in Petra. There’s no evidence Abraham ever went to Arabia and if Ishmael went to Arabia in his lifetime he continued to worship the God of his father Abraham until his later descendants forsook this worship to worship the Arabian pagan gods and made their own pagan practices like Hajj which still continue in Islam today.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
Loading...