Where did Lucifer's "iniquity" come from?

[ChowdersMom]

We all know where OUR iniquity came from, but there was no satan in Heaven. No sin. Lucifer was made perfect. How is it that iniquity was found in him?

Up until satan showed up, man had no desire to sin. He chose it only after being presented with an alternative to obedience and even then, he was tricked.

Does it have something to do with the fact that angels and men are two entirely different species of creation? If so, how?

But even if that is the case, it seems to me that angels would have had even MORE knowledge of the things of God than man.

How could this happen? How did Lucifer get the idea that he could possibly be ABOVE God? It seems beyond stupid.

If I think about this too long, my head wants to explode.

Then I think, "If this could happen in a perfect Heaven by a perfect creature who knew way more about God than man does and wasn't deceived by anybody/anything else like man was, then what prevents it from happening to us a couple of billion years into eternity?

Are there any books about this?

 

[Christina M]

If I think about this too long, my head wants to explode.

I remember being a kid, late at night, lying in bed thinking about eternity, God, angels and all of it made my brain feel like it was going to explode!

Your questions are good ones. (Ones that many people are afraid to even voice silently, let alone aloud!) Looking forward to hearing some opinions here.

 

[iafic]

Then I think, "If this could happen in a perfect Heaven by a perfect creature who knew way more about God than man does and wasn't deceived by anybody/anything else like man was, then what prevents it from happening to us a couple of billion years into eternity?

OH MAN have I asked this question for years!!!! I remember pondering on that when I was a little kid.

The only thing I have come up with is this...WE as humans, since we have been here on earth...we made our decision. I think that once we surrendered to God here on earth, that locked us in. We made our eternal choice.

Now angels, they didn't get their earthly chance. So I don't know. Maybe there will always be times of battle in eternity...but we would always be on God's side and always win.

Some who believe demons come from the pre-Adamic era...well, they were on earth and made their decision for the devil, and are eternally locked into death.

I have no clue how sin could be "found" in Satan. Where did it come from? Ya got me.

I have zero answers for your questions, these are just my "maybes." All I know is that the Bible says "...after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise..."

As long as I can't sin and God can't sin, I don't think we will have anything to worry about in eternity.

I am anxious for some others to post some light to these questions.

 

[OnlyByHisGrace]

I think about stuff like this too, so this is only my opinion ... The Bible says numerous times that God is a jealous God. Assuming Lucifer had the same trait, it wouldn't take much to allow that jealousy to turn to envy, and coveting God's postition. Lucifer might not have had the self control to keep the jealousy in check, if that makes sense. It does in my head anyways. lol.

God is a jealous God, but then he put in the 10 commandments about not coveting, which is an extension of jealousy left unchecked. That's my theory. If it makes sense.

 

[PastorMike]

We all know where OUR iniquity came from, but there was no satan in Heaven. No sin. Lucifer was made perfect. How is it that iniquity was found in him?

Up until satan showed up, man had no desire to sin. He chose it only after being presented with an alternative to obedience and even then, he was tricked.

Does it have something to do with the fact that angels and men are two entirely different species of creation? If so, how?

But even if that is the case, it seems to me that angels would have had even MORE knowledge of the things of God than man.

How could this happen? How did Lucifer get the idea that he could possibly be ABOVE God? It seems beyond stupid.

If I think about this too long, my head wants to explode.

Then I think, "If this could happen in a perfect Heaven by a perfect creature who knew way more about God than man does and wasn't deceived by anybody/anything else like man was, then what prevents it from happening to us a couple of billion years into eternity?

Are there any books about this?

I have a teaching series on the authority of the believer and it covers what you are talking about, the notes and the mp3's are on my website if you are interested... God bless, Mike.

 

[ChowdersMom]

Yes, I'm very interested, PreacherMike. Is there a particular subtopic that addresses this question, or is it in all 8? Thanks.

I have a teaching series on the authority of the believer and it covers what you are talking about, the notes and the mp3's are on my website if you are interested... God bless, Mike.

 

[Optimax]

Lucifer was ruler of the earth. There was nations, cities, commerce and trade. Lucifer began looking at "all he had" forgetting the source. Seems like we do that at times also.

All of this caused pride to rise up and he begain thinking "I will be like the most high". He deceived himself, convincing himself that he could defeat God. He rebelled against God with a third of the Angels and was cast like lightning to the earth.

Judgement came, darkness covered the earth and stayed that way unti Gen. 2:1. Satan stayed on the earth in darkness until then also.

When he saw that God created man he waited for his chance. You know the rest of the story.

 

[PastorMike]

Yes, I'm very interested, PreacherMike. Is there a particular subtopic that addresses this question, or is it in all 8? Thanks.

Lessons 2 and 3 deal with this subject but you should probably listen to lesson 1 also to get the setting, look at the notes and you will see what is being discussed in each lesson, as alway the written notes do not do justice to the lesson... God bless, Mike.

 

[kooolfriend]

Agree with bstow!
Lucifer was beautiful, was ruler of many kingdom, perfect and like all creation of God had free will. He start to compare his beauty, his power with God...he start to like the idea that he is greater than God, that he didn't need God, thus pride and arrogance were birth in his heart...then he did what he did.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Lucifer wasn't the ruler of many nations, he was the chief angel. Also, it says that his iniquity came for his abundance of trading. In my humble opinion, a euphemisim for religion.

Ezek 28:16-18
16 "By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18 "You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
NKJV

 

[Optimax]

Lucifer was ruler of the earth. There was nations, cities, commerce and trade. Lucifer began looking at "all he had" forgetting the source. Seems like we do that at times also.

All of this caused pride to rise up and he begain thinking "I will be like the most high". He deceived himself, convincing himself that he could defeat God. He rebelled against God with a third of the Angels and was cast like lightning to the earth.

Judgement came, darkness covered the earth and stayed that way unti Gen. 2:1. Satan stayed on the earth in darkness until then also.

When he saw that God created man he waited for his chance. You know the rest of the story.

Should have added that satan has the same system of commerce set up in the earth today as then. In Revelation it is the Babylonian system, chapter 18:11-

 

[God_Owned]

Lucifer was ruler of the earth.

I agree.

There was nations, cities, commerce and trade. Lucifer began looking at "all he had" forgetting the source. Seems like we do that at times also.


Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

I don't understand how you used Rev 18:11 to extrapolate your view of Lucifer's domain on the Earth, merchants, commerce, etc.?

All of this caused pride to rise up and he begain thinking "I will be like the most high". He deceived himself, convincing himself that he could defeat God. He rebelled against God with a third of the Angels and was cast like lightning to the earth.

Judgement came, darkness covered the earth and stayed that way unti Gen. 2:1. Satan stayed on the earth in darkness until then also.

I pretty much agree. I also think that Satan hit the Earth like a gazillion megaton explosion, kicking up enough dust into the atmosphere to completely blocked out the sun, killing everything on earth. Then I think that water collapsed in on the earth. The Earth was a giant mud ball suspended in water. This is why the fossil record is so messed up. Everything was just being sloshed around for who knows how long.


http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/clandonnachaidh/photos/view/3899?b=1

 

[Optimax]

I don't understand how you used Rev 18:11 to extrapolate your view of Lucifer's domain on the Earth, merchants, commerce, etc.?

Perhaps I did not say clearly what I ment to say.
This comment was the situation when Lucifer ruled earth before he was booted out.
There was nations, cities, commerce and trade. Lucifer began looking at "all he had" forgetting the source. Seems like we do that at times also.

The comment regarding Rev. 18:11-18(verse 18 or so) is the same commerce system satan set up on earth before being booted out. This system is the Babylonian system that will be destroyed and that destruction is described in these verses.

Hope that is clearer.

 

[God_Owned]

Perhaps I did not say clearly what I ment to say.
This comment was the situation when Lucifer ruled earth before he was booted out.
There was nations, cities, commerce and trade. Lucifer began looking at "all he had" forgetting the source. Seems like we do that at times also.

The comment regarding Rev. 18:11-18(verse 18 or so) is the same commerce system satan set up on earth before being booted out. This system is the Babylonian system that will be destroyed and that destruction is described in these verses.

Hope that is clearer.

I understand what you're saying, but I still don't understand, from the scripture you cited, how you conclud that the Lucifer's pre-Adamite commence system was the same as the system in place today.

 

[Optimax]

I understand what you're saying, but I still don't understand, from the scripture you cited, how you conclud that the Lucifer's pre-Adamite commence system was the same as the system in place today.

2 cor. 4:4 calls satan the god(ruler) of this world.

The days before he fell were his glory days so he tries to imitate what god gave him then. Only now it is preverted as all satan does is taking what God has already done and preverting it.

The commerce system operating in the world today is not of God. The system says compete with one another. God says love one another.

 

[now faith]

2 cor. 4:4 calls satan the god(ruler) of this world.

The days before he fell were his glory days so he tries to imitate what god gave him then. Only now it is preverted as all satan does is taking what God has already done and preverting it.

The commerce system operating in the world today is not of God. The system says compete with one another. God says love one another.

I would not consider him ruler of this world, the context would be the world as in sin and fleshly things. God gave man dominion over the earth from the beginning. And through The body and blood of Christ , man has dominion over heaven and earth as joint heirs in Christ.Paul stated we will judge Angels. Satan is nothing more than a fallen angel. He was a ark angel that could come before God . His role was to praise God. To the original question I would assume angels were given freewill the same as man. So Satan made his choice to want to be equal with God. It was only by Gods mercy that Satan and the others were allowed to exist.Christ had the power to destroy the demons Legion when he cast them out .This was there fear ,and is why they begged to be cast into the swine. Christ knew them before this world was formed , when they were angels. It like one of us who has a child that is a criminal. We would cast him from our house and family, and not condone their actions, but our love would remain.God is love which surpasses our understanding.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Welllllll...Adam was given dominion. When he sinned Satan gained dominion until Jesus came and took it back and gave us authority. The term "god of this world" does mean ruler, as in Psalm 82:6 where God calls men 'gods.' The Hebrew word there means ruler or judge.

Man was given dominion over the earth. We are never given dominion over heaven -- even in our imputed righteousness, we do not gain dominion over heaven.

I would agree with you that angels must have had free will, for Lucifer certainly made a free choice. And other than that I have no disagreement with the rest of what you say.

 

[now faith]

Welllllll...Adam was given dominion. When he sinned Satan gained dominion until Jesus came and took it back and gave us authority. The term "god of this world" does mean ruler, as in Psalm 82:6 where God calls men 'gods.' The Hebrew word there means ruler or judge.

Man was given dominion over the earth. We are never given dominion over heaven -- even in our imputed righteousness, we do not gain dominion over heaven.

I would agree with you that angels must have had free will, for Lucifer certainly made a free choice. And other than that I have no disagreement with the rest of what you say.

Yes but to say in a literal sense Satan is god of earth , I can't buy that. I would not say Satan had domininion over earth before Christ either, if that was the case he would have killed all of the men of god. The best he could do was to battle as in the word brought to Daniel. He contended with the angel of God.after Christ he simply can not be God or ruler of this world. I base my assumption on Christ putting all things named in heaven and earth under his feet, by way of the cross we are joint heirs with Christ. The term ye will judge angels, and I can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens me, gives me the conclusion of our dominion by way of Christ. Back to the OT does it say anywhere after the fall Satan was to rule man or the earth. It is the same term used for John 3;16 so loved the world. This would refer to physical world, the people in it. God of this world refers to things of this world , fleshly things carnal.same as our flesh on our body and the flesh in our mind. Christs authority is in the temporal realm and spiritual as well. It is the true meaning of Hebrews 11. But don't even think I am going to debate you on anything Bob as I look to you when I get off on a rant to bring me back to earth!

 

[Optimax]

I've always understood that there is no free will in heaven, and therefore we cannot sin against God. However, you have to give Lucifer credit for his courage to stand against what he believed to be a tyrant.

This thread originated in 2006.

Strangelove resurrected it in order to glorify the devil and call God a tyrant.

 

[now faith]

This thread originated in 2006.

Strangelove resurrected it in order to glorify the devil and call God a tyrant.

I would consider that statement ,Satan worship.