Where did Lucifer's "iniquity" come from?

[now faith]

The main goal of Satan is to destroy us, Gods creation. He seeks to separate us from the knowledge of God. Satans book of tricks is rooted in religion. i honesty think he was responsible for the religious divide in the body of Christ. He took our promise and twisted it in to Carnal doctrine called religion. He absoloutly wants to withhold the truth when it comes to Christian authority and faith in the promises of Gods word. Think for a moment, how many churches today teach that the gifts were not meant for today? How many would freak out if you told them you speak in tongues and are baptized in the Holy Ghost. If that's not deception I don't no what is. According to most religions we are just humble little suffering cross baring people. But in the sweet by and by it will get better. I am the author of my life by and through Christ. I am ordained to come boldly before the throne, I am given authority to rebuke sickness, poverty, and Satan . I belive it is in context to say that satan is the god of mans religion, and a lot of them give him glory every Sunday with the I cants and you donts and suffering is Godly.

 

[toLiJC]

the biblical word "lucifer" indicates two things, the first is the unrighteous clerics, the second is the fallen souls, because all souls were taken in the "darkness" after the end of the previous eternity, that is why so far there have been so many unsaved people that issued in this world, and the lack of complete salvation is due to the iniquity in the faith which the unrighteous clerics/believers have been doing so far counted from the (time of) original sin onwards

Blessings

 

[Rememberme]

The main goal of Satan is to destroy us, Gods creation. He seeks to separate us from the knowledge of God. Satans book of tricks is rooted in religion. i honesty think he was responsible for the religious divide in the body of Christ. He took our promise and twisted it in to Carnal doctrine called religion. He absoloutly wants to withhold the truth when it comes to Christian authority and faith in the promises of Gods word. Think for a moment, how many churches today teach that the gifts were not meant for today? How many would freak out if you told them you speak in tongues and are baptized in the Holy Ghost. If that's not deception I don't no what is. According to most religions we are just humble little suffering cross baring people. But in the sweet by and by it will get better. I am the author of my life by and through Christ. I am ordained to come boldly before the throne, I am given authority to rebuke sickness, poverty, and Satan . I belive it is in context to say that satan is the god of mans religion, and a lot of them give him glory every Sunday with the I cants and you donts and suffering is Godly.

I did not realize how bad the suffering for God theology really was until I came to these forums.Excluding WOF of course.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

the biblical word "lucifer" indicates two things, the first are the unrighteous clerics, the second are the fallen souls, because all souls were taken in the "darkness" after the end of the previous eternity, that is why so far there have been so many unsaved people that issued in this world, and the lack of complete salvation is due to the iniquity in the faith which the unrighteous clerics/believers have been doing so far counted from the (time of) original sin onwards

Blessings

The previous eternity?? What Bible are you reading??

toLiJC: please remember this is a Word/Faith congregrational forum. While the study of Lucifer, his fall (if you believe he is Satan), and other pre-earth/pre-creation topics are subjective, there still is a bible-based desire from Word/Faith. Since I've not heard much of the two "indications" you mention I'm fairly certain that they are not Word/Faith beliefs.

Biblically...

First "Lucifer" appears only once in scripture (Isaiah 14:12). In some translations it doesn't even appear once! (They render it "Morning Star" or "Day Star" (that'll take a bite out of one of your favorite Christian stations, eh?)).

Lucifer comes from the Hebrew word hêylêl (היל&#1500 which literally means "morning star." It derives from hâlal (הל&#1500 meaning a shining light, or shining color. It has connotations to singing, celebration or praise. The word "lucifer" is actually the Latin word used from the 4th century Latin translation of the scripture. The King James translation popularized the name "Lucifer."

We see in Luke 10:18 that Jesus says that He saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven, which many parallel to the story in Isaiah about the morning star, Lucifer. And in Revelation 12 we see (v3-4) the Red Dragon who sweeps away one third of the stars and threw them to earth. Then (v 9, 13) we see the red dragon also thrown down to the earth. His desire at this point is to (1) deceive the whole world (v9) and to stop the male chile (v13), who through this vision can only be Jesus.
In Isaiah we see a story of a prideful Lucifer who tried to be like God, even above God. But he is cast down to the earth.

Next the concept of Lucifer being unrighteous clerics is foreign to scripture. Any such interpretation is extra-biblical at best.

Finally (going extra-biblical, but from a biblical basis) the concept of "previous eternities" or perhaps "previous creations" has been a constant wonderment in the Christian world for a long time now. Such a concept is never directly dealt with in scripture, and again takes much conjecture to use scripture to come to such a conclusion. The most likely would surround Genesis 1:2 --

Genesis 1:1-3
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
​

The term "without form and void" is the Hebrew phrase tôhû bôhû (תהו ובה&#1493. This phrase is used in only two other places in the Bible: Isaiah 34:11 and Jeremiah 4:23. The former talks bout a future judgement for Edom, and this phrase is translated "confusion and emptiness." In the latter it is about a future judgement on Israel (and this verse mentions the earth during creation as being without form and void). There is a good study of this by Derek Prince found here from his book "War in Heaven." Scroll down and click on chapters 3 and 4 for some interesting insight.

We know that everything that God creates is beautiful and perfect. His creation in verse 1 is perfect. By the end of verse 2 it is in chaos.

Some contemplate that this was a period where the dinosaurs roamed; then a catashrophe strikes and life ends, leaving chaos, confusion and emptiness. (Gap creationism; even Old Earth creationism).

Others contemplate a pre-creation civilization (our age being this creation). Another age of "men" that came to an end. This doesn't seem to make sense.

And yet others contemplate that verse 2 is when Lucifer was cast down into the earth. That this was the introduction of chaos and confusion into the earth. If this were true, then Lucifer's "contamination" of the earth came BEFORE the garden of Eden. Some justify this by saying that what is OUTSIDE the borders of the garden are indeed chaotic and confused. It was to be Adam's job to cultivate the garden and expand it, being fruitful and multiply not only people, but also life in general to take over the planet and reclaim it from the chaos and confusion.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Yes but to say in a literal sense Satan is god of earth , I can't buy that.

This part you better buy. It is scripture:

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB)
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
​

He's also called the "prince of the power of the air" --

Ephesians 2:2 (NASB)
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
​

And Jesus Himself called him the "ruler (god) of this world" --

John 12:31 (NASB)
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
​

I would not say Satan had domininion over earth before Christ either, if that was the case he would have killed all of the men of god.

Bad supposition. Look to Job. God built a hedge around Job as he does for all His kids. The garden of Eden is a sort of picture of this, a paradise protected from the harshness of the world outside -- until man takes a free will choice to choose the curse. So while Satan certainly had some rulership in this earth due to Adam bending his knee to him, God is still in control of the whole ball of wax. And God had a plan for Jesus to die on a cross to win our redemption from this system that we placed ourselves under with our willful disobedience.

But don't even think I am going to debate you on anything Bob as I look to you when I get off on a rant to bring me back to earth!

Don't assume that I'm always right! I'm just a man and full of mistakes. So if you have justification biblically for what you believe, then debate (or discuss!) away.

 

[toLiJC]

The previous eternity?? What Bible are you reading??

toLiJC: please remember this is a Word/Faith congregrational forum. While the study of Lucifer, his fall (if you believe he is Satan), and other pre-earth/pre-creation topics are subjective, there still is a bible-based desire from Word/Faith. Since I've not heard much of the two "indications" you mention I'm fairly certain that they are not Word/Faith beliefs.

Biblically...

First "Lucifer" appears only once in scripture (Isaiah 14:12). In some translations it doesn't even appear once! (They render it "Morning Star" or "Day Star" (that'll take a bite out of one of your favorite Christian stations, eh?)).

Lucifer comes from the Hebrew word hêylêl (היל&#1500 which literally means "morning star." It derives from hâlal (הל&#1500 meaning a shining light, or shining color. It has connotations to singing, celebration or praise. The word "lucifer" is actually the Latin word used from the 4th century Latin translation of the scripture. The King James translation popularized the name "Lucifer."

We see in Luke 10:18 that Jesus says that He saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven, which many parallel to the story in Isaiah about the morning star, Lucifer. And in Revelation 12 we see (v3-4) the Red Dragon who sweeps away one third of the stars and threw them to earth. Then (v 9, 13) we see the red dragon also thrown down to the earth. His desire at this point is to (1) deceive the whole world (v9) and to stop the male chile (v13), who through this vision can only be Jesus.
In Isaiah we see a story of a prideful Lucifer who tried to be like God, even above God. But he is cast down to the earth.

Next the concept of Lucifer being unrighteous clerics is foreign to scripture. Any such interpretation is extra-biblical at best.

Finally (going extra-biblical, but from a biblical basis) the concept of "previous eternities" or perhaps "previous creations" has been a constant wonderment in the Christian world for a long time now. Such a concept is never directly dealt with in scripture, and again takes much conjecture to use scripture to come to such a conclusion. The most likely would surround Genesis 1:2 --

Genesis 1:1-3
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
​

The term "without form and void" is the Hebrew phrase tôhû bôhû (תהו ובה&#1493. This phrase is used in only two other places in the Bible: Isaiah 34:11 and Jeremiah 4:23. The former talks bout a future judgement for Edom, and this phrase is translated "confusion and emptiness." In the latter it is about a future judgement on Israel (and this verse mentions the earth during creation as being without form and void). There is a good study of this by Derek Prince found here from his book "War in Heaven." Scroll down and click on chapters 3 and 4 for some interesting insight.

We know that everything that God creates is beautiful and perfect. His creation in verse 1 is perfect. By the end of verse 2 it is in chaos.

Some contemplate that this was a period where the dinosaurs roamed; then a catashrophe strikes and life ends, leaving chaos, confusion and emptiness. (Gap creationism; even Old Earth creationism).

Others contemplate a pre-creation civilization (our age being this creation). Another age of "men" that came to an end. This doesn't seem to make sense.

And yet others contemplate that verse 2 is when Lucifer was cast down into the earth. That this was the introduction of chaos and confusion into the earth. If this were true, then Lucifer's "contamination" of the earth came BEFORE the garden of Eden. Some justify this by saying that what is OUTSIDE the borders of the garden are indeed chaotic and confused. It was to be Adam's job to cultivate the garden and expand it, being fruitful and multiply not only people, but also life in general to take over the planet and reclaim it from the chaos and confusion.

Hi ablessedman,

there is one eternity in the universe which actually is a time period with a beginning and end, so that always after its end occurs, starts its next beginning, because (as we already said above) the eternity is a time cycle with a beginning and end, as it is written:

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 "The thing that hath been(viz. in the previous eternity), it is that which shall be(viz. in the subsequent eternity); and that which is done(viz. in the previous eternity) is that which shall be done(viz. in the subsequent eternity): and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time(viz. in the previous rotations/repeats of the eternity), which was before us(ie before the current eternity). There is no remembrance of former things(viz. there is no remembrance of the things that occurred in the previous eternity); neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after(ie neither shall there be any remembrance of the things which will occur in the subsequent eternity with the souls in the subsequent rotation of their roles/characters).",

Matthew 7:1-12 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge(viz. in the present eternity), ye shall be judged(viz. in the next repeats of the eternity): and with what measure ye mete(viz. in the present eternity), it shall be measured to you again(viz. in the next repeats of the eternity)..... Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.",

Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end(ie the beginning and the end of the eternity), the first and the last."

so, it is written on many places in the Bible that the eternity has a beginning and end which is quite visible even from the first page where is 1st chapter and 1st verse of the book Genesis

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

actually, as it is written in Matthew 7:1-12 which is seen above, all word of God and Christ is based on this particularity

in reference to the biblical word/concept "lucifer", there is no such a God's angel that falls in the "darkness" becoming an angel of the "darkness" (Hebrews 1:7), because God creates only completely good creatures (Genesis 1:31), otherwise He alone would betray Himself or would be unrighteous which of course fortunately is impossible, or else now all we should lie in impenetrable and painful darkness, also, satan is not an animate(ensouled) being i.e. it has no a soul, but it is an inanimate spirit which is the main appearance of the "darkness" which in its turn is the bad side of the divine/divinity, as it is visible in the book Genesis 1st chapter where the "darkness" is presented as something which is not created on the part of God, but which exists from before the beginning of this eternity

Genesis 1:1-5 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness |was| upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that |it was| good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

in this passage of the Bible above is seen how God made the "Light" and that the "darkness" is not made by Him, but that it exists even from before the beginning of the eternity, of course, this does not mean that God cannot control the "darkness" and even to remove all its appearances to the end of this eternity, but He can do it, and namely this is what He will do very soon, as it is written in the book Revelation:

Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings(ie seven times): five are fallen(ie counted from the seventh day onward(-s), five millennia will pass), and one is(ie and the end of the appearance/reign of (the) "darkness" will occur in the sixth millennium), and the other is not yet come(ie and the time during which the "darkness" will reign in the sixth millennium has not yet occurred); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

it is so in each eternity that the "darkness" appears/reigns only during the first 5-6 millennia of (the) entire eternity and after God removes it for all the rest of the time of eternity right to its end

Blessings

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

there is one eternity in the universe which actually is a time period with a beginning and end, so that always after its end occurs, starts its next beginning, because (as we already said above) the eternity is a time cycle with a beginning and end, as it is written:

You are only correct in that there is one eternity. The Bible does not tell us that eternity (or a series of them) are cyclical.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 "The thing that hath been(viz. in the previous eternity), it is that which shall be(viz. in the subsequent eternity); and that which is done(viz. in the previous eternity) is that which shall be done(viz. in the subsequent eternity): and there is no new thing under the sun.

No. You can't take a verse and implant your own ideals. This is not about eternity...it is about what exists under the sun. You know, the sun that was created in Genesis and is put out in Revelation. All repeats are things that occur in this earth, such as "history repeats itself."

Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end(ie the beginning and the end of the eternity), the first and the last."

No, scripture is clear that this supports that Jesus is before all and nothing is after Him, in time and preeminence. He was the first-born into being born anew (Colossians 1:18) and He is not a created being. Nothing is above Him.

so, it is written on many places in the Bible that the eternity has a beginning and end which is quite visible even from the first page where is 1st chapter and 1st verse of the book Genesis

No. Time may have a beginning and an end, but eternity stretches out forever on both ends. For instance, of the baby Jesus in Mary's womb:

Luke 1:31-33
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
​

His kingdom, which is heavenly, will have no end. There is no end to eternity.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

actually, as it is written in Matthew 7:1-12 which is seen above, all word of God and Christ is based on this particularity

Matthew 7 is about not judging your brother and then about seeking after God's good blessing in your life. This goes hand in hand with Mark 11:24-25 where it says that you can have what you ask; and that you should forgive those who have ought against you (don't judge, but forgive).

in reference to the biblical word/concept "lucifer", there is no such a God's angel that falls in the "darkness" becoming an angel of the "darkness" (Hebrews 1:7), because God creates only completely good creatures (Genesis 1:31),

Genesis 1:31 says that God saw that what He created was good. It doesn't say what you say here. Include this in your list of what God creates:

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
​

Quite explicit. The Lord created what you say He didn't. Scripture trumps personal suppositions.

otherwise He alone would betray Himself or would be unrighteous which of course fortunately is impossible, or else now all we should lie in impenetrable and painful darkness, also, satan is not an animate(ensouled) being i.e. it has no a soul, but it is an inanimate spirit which is the main appearance of the "darkness" which in its turn is the bad side of the divine/divinity, as it is visible in the book Genesis 1st chapter where the "darkness" is presented as something which is not created on the part of God, but which exists from before the beginning of this eternity

As for Satan, no he is not an inanimate spirit without soul.

Genesis 1:14
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle...

ref Revelation 12:9; 20:2-3
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
​

Satan is identified in Revelation as the serpent of old, as the Devil, as the dragon. He is a person, onte that is cast out, one that deceives the world, one that can be locked up in a pit.

In Genesis 1:14 the word "cursed" means 'execrated.' This means "made good for nothing." In other words, Satan at this moment was made "unsavable." He blasphemed God by moving the creation into corruption.

Genesis 1:1-5 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness |was| upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that |it was| good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

in this passage of the Bible above is seen how God made the "Light" and that the "darkness" is not made by Him,

The Bible in Isaiah 45:7 disagrees with you. God made darkness. (God made everything! Otherwise there would be something beside or above Him, and there is not -- He is sovereign.)

but that it exists even from before the beginning of the eternity,

How did you get BEFORE eternity? Are you defining "eternity" as time? Eternity as the Bible defines it is outside of time.

of course, this does not mean that God cannot control the "darkness" and even to remove all its appearances to the end of this eternity, but He can do it, and namely this is what He will do very soon, as it is written in the book Revelation:

Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings(ie seven times): five are fallen(ie counted from the seventh day onward(-s), five millennia will pass), and one is(ie and the end of the appearance/reign of (the) "darkness" will occur in the sixth millennium), and the other is not yet come(ie and the time during which the "darkness" will reign in the sixth millennium has not yet occurred); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

it is so in each eternity that the "darkness" appears/reigns only during the first 5-6 millennia of (the) entire eternity and after God removes it for all the rest of the time of eternity right to its end

May I ask what religion/denomination/movement you are in? This is an odd form of millennialism. Where have you learned these beliefs?

 

[now faith]

This part you better buy. It is scripture:

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB)
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
​

He's also called the "prince of the power of the air" --

Ephesians 2:2 (NASB)
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
​

And Jesus Himself called him the "ruler (god) of this world" --

John 12:31 (NASB)
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
​

Bad supposition. Look to Job. God built a hedge around Job as he does for all His kids. The garden of Eden is a sort of picture of this, a paradise protected from the harshness of the world outside -- until man takes a free will choice to choose the curse. So while Satan certainly had some rulership in this earth due to Adam bending his knee to him, God is still in control of the whole ball of wax. And God had a plan for Jesus to die on a cross to win our redemption from this system that we placed ourselves under with our willful disobedience.


Don't assume that I'm always right! I'm just a man and full of mistakes. So if you have justification biblically for what you believe, then debate (or discuss!) away.

I consider the term god as All powerfully knowing and ruling over. With Our God in control as in Job ,this circumstance would downgrade a god of this world. I simply cannot give satan any more credence than other angels,and the termology used is metaphoric in reference to him due to his carnal agenda. It's roots are in how the term world is used, in god of this world this would apply to those lost and living in the (world) we are in this world but not of this world. But in literal sense we are of this world in the physical meaning. We are of this earth due to being born on. The terms refered to about satans rule are spiritual in nature with dominion over the lost.

 

[now faith]

What do you mean by "suffering is godly?"

It is a teaching, that to struggle and suffer in poverty is a Humble act for God. It is a salvation through works theology , and is heresy

 

[now faith]

the biblical word "lucifer" indicates two things, the first are the unrighteous clerics, the second are the fallen souls, because all souls were taken in the "darkness" after the end of the previous eternity, that is why so far there have been so many unsaved people that issued in this world, and the lack of complete salvation is due to the iniquity in the faith which the unrighteous clerics/believers have been doing so far counted from the (time of) original sin onwards

Blessings

Are you speaking in tongues, if so we need someone to interpret.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Are you speaking in tongues, if so we need someone to interpret.

I'm sorry for laughing....but that's funny!!

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I consider the term god as All powerfully knowing and ruling over. With Our God in control as in Job ,this circumstance would downgrade a god of this world. I simply cannot give satan any more credence than other angels,and the termology used is metaphoric in reference to him due to his carnal agenda. It's roots are in how the term world is used, in god of this world this would apply to those lost and living in the (world) we are in this world but not of this world. But in literal sense we are of this world in the physical meaning. We are of this earth due to being born on. The terms refered to about satans rule are spiritual in nature with dominion over the lost.

I do understand and I agree that satan deserves absolutely no credence at all.

But....

Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
​

...and Jesus reiterates the fact here...

John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
​

The term "gods," little 'g' (something many in WoF get in trouble for claiming!), simply means judges or rulers.

And again, look at the verse I quoted to you in my last post...scripture is clear about the terms applied to satan. It is not something to like or dislike; it simply is Truth.

So let me get this straight: God says he is the 'god of this world' and you say "Nope, God. That ain't true." I feel the spirit of slap comin' all over me!

 

[Rememberme]

What is wrong with the theology of suffering for God? I'm not trying to start an argument. I truly am curious because I've never heard an argument against it before.

Hi StrangeLOve,Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

So in a nutshell we do not believe that sickness, poverty,comes from God, there are some that teach if you receive such it may be God teaching you a lesson from it.We do not believe this.What kind of God would do that.Would you throw a child out in the street with traffic to teach him a lesson.No,God is not mean hateful or a tormentor.Yes,you can suffer persecution for the gospels sake but none of these other things are from God.So they are resisted stedfast in the faith through the word of God.It is not the weight that makes you stronger it is the resisting of the weight.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted,I am tempted of God:for God cannot be tempted with evil,neither he tempteth any man.

Hope this helps.

 

[toLiJC]

You are only correct in that there is one eternity. The Bible does not tell us that eternity (or a series of them) are cyclical.

if the eternity is not a cycle/circle, then what do so many human/soul beings under the bondage of the sin for the last 5-6 millennia?!, and why the creation was not built (up) before 5-6 millennia and God had to build it then?!, and if God had to build it, how the eternity has no an end and a beginning when God had to build the creation like for the first time?!

No. You can't take a verse and implant your own ideals. This is not about eternity...it is about what exists under the sun. You know, the sun that was created in Genesis and is put out in Revelation. All repeats are things that occur in this earth, such as "history repeats itself."

and are there e.g. spaceships with people of(built on) this planet traveling to other galaxies?!, or, is there an identical dna in two humans?!, or, are there identical fingerprints of two people?!, or, are there identical destinies of two humans as (a) sequence of events/occurrences considering them throughout?!, and why God to destroy the good things which He created/made?!, because if He had to made the creation 5-6 millennia ago, this means that it was not created before that, and there is no (a) chance God to be a destroyer of His Own Creation, which (in turn) makes it clear that the eternity has a beginning and (an) end, then, there would be no so many people under the bondage of sin if the eternity has no beginning and end

No, scripture is clear that this supports that Jesus is before all and nothing is after Him, in time and preeminence. He was the first-born into being born anew (Colossians 1:18) and He is not a created being. Nothing is above Him.

yes, the true Jesus Christ is the only Lord of all this universe, which thing is presented along the whole Holy Scripture which of course is the biblical, but there is written also that Jesus has been born on the part of God the Father, as it is written:

Hebrews 1:5-6 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

it is true that God first has given birth His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ, and only then started with the making of (the) creation together with Jesus, because before that, the universe was without whatever creation

No. Time may have a beginning and an end, but eternity stretches out forever on both ends. For instance, of the baby Jesus in Mary's womb:

Luke 1:31-33
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
​

His kingdom, which is heavenly, will have no end. There is no end to eternity.

yes, the Kingdom of Lord God has no end, but there is a transition i.e. the creation collapses in the end of each eternity, because then God the Father undergoes something like a reversal from His mature to His seminal form, after which He again grows to His mature form in the next beginning of the eternity, as it is written:

John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word(ie in the beginning was God in His form of (a) seed), and the Word was with God(ie and the Seed was growing), and the Word was God(ie and God grew (up) to His mature form). The same(ie this) was in the beginning with God.",

Mark 4:30-32 "And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom(ie the origin) of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It(ie in the beginning God) is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth(ie when it is in the beginning of (the) eternity), is less than all the seeds that be in the earth(ie is "less" than all beings of the universe): But when it is sown(ie but when the beginning of (the) eternity starts), it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs(ie than all beings of the universe), and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air(ie so that many Holy Angels) may lodge under the shadow of it.",

Matthew 7 is about not judging your brother and then about seeking after God's good blessing in your life. This goes hand in hand with Mark 11:24-25 where it says that you can have what you ask; and that you should forgive those who have ought against you (don't judge, but forgive).

yes, the forgiveness is in the basis of all Holy Writing(-s), but there is not only one meaning in many verses of the Bible - there are many verses with more than one meaning

Genesis 1:31 says that God saw that what He created was good. It doesn't say what you say here. Include this in your list of what God creates:

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
​

Quite explicit. The Lord created what you say He didn't. Scripture trumps personal suppositions.

how?!, if Lord God is a creator or doer of anything evil, then how He will be righteous/sinless/worthy?!, or, is God bad/unrighteous or a sinner?!, in principle each word in the Bible has a special meaning, because the Scripture is a spiritual book about the faith, and therefore all biblical terminology is very special i.e. has very special meaning, for example, let's see the same verse of Isaiah 45 chapter with the right conception in it:

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create(ie and restrict the) darkness: I make peace, and create(ie and reduce the) evil: I the LORD do all these things."

the same which is written in Genesis 1st chapter:

Genesis 1:4-5 "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

as it is visible in the above verse, God separates the evil from the good, and sets restrictions to the evil called "night" in the Bible

As for Satan, no he is not an inanimate spirit without soul.

Genesis 1:14
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle...

ref Revelation 12:9; 20:2-3
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
​

Satan is identified in Revelation as the serpent of old, as the Devil, as the dragon. He is a person, onte that is cast out, one that deceives the world, one that can be locked up in a pit.

In Genesis 1:14 the word "cursed" means 'execrated.' This means "made good for nothing." In other words, Satan at this moment was made "unsavable." He blasphemed God by moving the creation into corruption.

this does not prove that satan is an animate(ensouled) being, actually there are many examples in the Bible in which is visible that there are evil spirits i.e. not souls, but spirits, because the nature/character of the divine/divinity is such that there is possible to exists reasonable spirits which have no souls, but (as we indicated) which have a will and (can) think, decide and act, let us remember how many such evil spirits have been cast out(expelled) on the part of Jesus and His God Father, how is it possible Lord God to be a murderer of any soul?!, when He alone said this:

Luke 9:56 "the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.",

John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.",

"the devil..... He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth(ie in the love/good(-ness)), because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar(ie because it is evil), and the father of it(ie and the "father" of evil(-ness))."

also:

1 John 3:15 "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

is it possible God and Jesus to be evil/murderers in such circumstances, when They alone say that They are not such?!

The Bible in Isaiah 45:7 disagrees with you. God made darkness. (God made everything! Otherwise there would be something beside or above Him, and there is not -- He is sovereign.)

How Lord God can be the creator of something evil?!, when it is expressly written this:

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very(ie completely/absolutely) good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

how is it possible Lord God to be the head of the evil?!, when it is expressly written the following:

James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:"

is Lord God a sinner or unrighteous?!, especially since it is written: "God is not unrighteous"(Hebrews 6:10)

How did you get BEFORE eternity? Are you defining "eternity" as time? Eternity as the Bible defines it is outside of time.

why one of the meanings of the word "age" is "eternity", when the same word means "period"?!, likewise is with the words "aeon/eon", which means "some long period", so, the eternity is a circle which means that it is endless although it has a beginning and an end, because there is a constant cycle

May I ask what religion/denomination/movement you are in? This is an odd form of millennialism. Where have you learned these beliefs?

we are just witnesses of God and Jesus, and when we testify Their Word, we do not judge any human/soul being, because the Purpose of God and Jesus and their Saints is to be provided salvation for eternal life to all people/souls, not they to be judged

Blessings

 

[now faith]

This issue on god of world, I belive is a example of the need for us to rightly divide the Word. The Bible is not in error only our discernment of verses. This is not my element ,but I believe the Greek writing and some of the Greek terms show up in the background of our understanding. The Greeks used the term god of many times, god of war ,god of love etc. The terms used were attached to un intangible nouns . War for example is a thing that exist but is not always in the temporal. It is in past ,future and at times present. Love is a emotion for man with out a physical form, but it's existence is evident by actions it invokes. From the Christian belief we know The Holy Spirit dwells in us and whos power is manifest up on the earth. It is God in spirit on earth. When the body of Christ would be caught up The Holy Spirit would no longer be on earth. While The spirit of God remains on earth, Satan has no power over God the father. So these terms used would imply a god of the world would have authority and power over the body of Christ . This would also entitle him to rule The Holy Spirit that dwells within all people who have accepted Christ. James said resist the devil and he will flee. Doesn't sound like a god to me more like a coward. Most of my friends here know my advice in other post , I always tell others never to give Satan any place whatsoever ,and Bob and I both have stated many times he is a defeated foe.

 

[toLiJC]

namely the Spirit of God and Christ is the one which not only (that) gives life to all living beings i.e. to all souls, but which also holds stably the atoms and molecules and all other constructive elements, if Their Spirit pulls back from the earth, then all this creation will disintegrate together with the life here and all its inhabitants, so that the Heaven and the Earth are one closely interconnected system, as it is shown here:

Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Blessings

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Pride

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Hi toLiJC,

Two things. (1) I think we have a slight language barrier here and we may be defining "eternity" in two different ways; (2) my request of what denomination/church you belong to is important for this discussion. This is a Word/Faith forum for Word/Faith believers. Non-Word/Faith doctrines are not to be taught here. While I appreciate your words and admission that Jesus Christ is Lord and the only Lord of this universe, some concepts of the rest of what you say need to be fleshed out, but on the surface do not seem to be consistent with Word/Faith. As such they can't be expounded on here; although there are other forums on Christian Forums where you could certainly espouse these questions.

I will fully answer your post in my next response/post. As for these two items I'd like say/ask:

a) "eternity" is not the beginning of creation to the end of creation. It is not within the limits of time as we know it. Eternity is endless on both ends, no beginning, no end. It is where God exists and from where God created our worlds and our "time." Thus, if eternity does not end, then it cannot begin again; it cannot be cyclical.

b) could you tell me what church/denomination you belong to? This is important in a congregational forum.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Pride

Where did his pride come from?

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

yes, the true Jesus Christ is the only Lord of all this universe, which thing is presented along the whole Holy Scripture which of course is the biblical, but there is written also that Jesus has been born on the part of God the Father, as it is written:

Hebrews 1:5-6 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

it is true that God first has given birth His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ, and only then started with the making of (the) creation together with Jesus, because before that, the universe was without whatever creation

We may have a possible language barrier here. Let's make sure we agree: Jesus Christ, although scripture uses the terms "firstborn" with him, was not born in the sense that we are. Jesus always existed and we present at the creation of our worlds. Jesus was not created. Jesus is God. The Father, the Son and the Spirit are One God in three persons, the Father, the son and the Spirit. They are One God above all that there is. The Father, the Son and the Spirit are all Equal and are One God. The persons of the Father, the Son and the Spirit are NOT manifestations of God, but rather they ARE three Persons in One God.

yes, the Kingdom of Lord God has no end, but there is a transition i.e. the creation collapses in the end of each eternity, because then God the Father undergoes something like a reversal from His mature to His seminal form, after which He again grows to His mature form in the next beginning of the eternity, as it is written:

John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word(ie in the beginning was God in His form of (a) seed), and the Word was with God(ie and the Seed was growing), and the Word was God(ie and God grew (up) to His mature form). The same(ie this) was in the beginning with God.",

Absolutely not. toLiJC, this is not even basic Christianity. This teaching is heresy and cultic. It is on the same level as Mormanism's man climbing to become a god of his own world and thus "eternity" for that world starts over. Or it is some odd form of reincarnation for God. But God does not partake in reincarnation. God does not have a seed form. God does not have a beginning -- and He certainly does not have many beginnings over and over again. God does not change, thus He does not undergo any sort of reversal. He does not have a mature and seminal form.

What you teach here is herersy.