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When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

HannibalFlavius

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Pentecost is also known as Atzereth, it is the day that concludes Passover.


I have no way of relaying what I believe in Revelation because my belief is so far different than most people's belief.

If I speak of Passover, I speak of Tabernacles because they are the same day, and a part of each other.


The Pentecost was the giving of the spirit because the law was given on that day.

It concludes Passover, an Atzereth.


There is also a day that concludes Tabernacles and is known as Shemini Atzereth.

The law is also given on this day.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Revelation 11:19 Then the Temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in his temple.

This only happens on the 10th of Tishri.


Revelation 8:1 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about an hour and a half.

This only happens on the 10th of Tishri.

The entire nation becomes silent because the high priest is walking and we listen to the pomegranites, hear them?

The famous prayer spoken on Tishri 1.
Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, ''The kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall rule forever and ever.

This only happens on Tishri 1.

Revelation 14 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on mount Zion, and with him, 144,000

This only happens on firstfruits, so we know what the date is.





Revelation 14:18 '' Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the Earth, and threw it into the great winepress of God.''

What is the date of the grape harvest?



Revelation 15:5 After these things I looked, and behold, the Temple of the Tabernacles of Testimony in heaven was opened.

Again, Rosh Hashanah and yom Kippor.



What we are shown is Rosh Hashanah in the seals, in the trumpets, in the bowls.

What we are shown is Yom Kippor in the seals, in the trumpets, in the bowls.

What we are shown is 3 perspectives from 3 different vantage points in what happens when Rosh Hashanah and Yom kippor happen.


From the opening of the first seal to the pouring of the last bowl, we see 3 different perspectives of what takes place on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippor.

But after these 3 have been fulfilled, it is then that we continue the week.

All that time was spent showing the fulfillment of two holy days, and after that, the Holy days continue.
 
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ebedmelech

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Revelation 11:19 Then the Temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in his temple.

This only happens on the 10th of Tishri.


Revelation 8:1 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about an hour and a half.

This only happens on the 10th of Tishri.

The entire nation becomes silent because the high priest is walking and we listen to the pomegranites, hear them?

The famous prayer spoken on Tishri 1.
Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, ''The kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall rule forever and ever.

This only happens on Tishri 1.

Revelation 14 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on mount Zion, and with him, 144,000

This only happens on firstfruits, so we know what the date is.





Revelation 14:18 '' Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the Earth, and threw it into the great winepress of God.''

What is the date of the grape harvest?



Revelation 15:5 After these things I looked, and behold, the Temple of the Tabernacles of Testimony in heaven was opened.

Again, Rosh Hashanah and yom Kippor.



What we are shown is Rosh Hashanah in the seals, in the trumpets, in the bowls.

What we are shown is Yom Kippor in the seals, in the trumpets, in the bowls.

What we are shown is 3 perspectives from 3 different vantage points in what happens when Rosh Hashanah and Yom kippor happen.


From the opening of the first seal to the pouring of the last bowl, we see 3 different perspectives of what takes place on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippor.

But after these 3 have been fulfilled, it is then that we continue the week.

All that time was spent showing the fulfillment of two holy days, and after that, the Holy days continue.
Hannibal...you're in wonderland.

The temple in Heaven opened when Christ ascended...once again what did Jesus say when he whne into the temple and ran out the money changers?

He sad "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up"...:thumbsup:
 
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precepts

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"There's no gap between the Beasts"


Well there is .... and Rome existed in the breach of silence between

The ancient Roman empire and subsequent empires over the centuries simply cannot be found, much less named, with in the scope of the prophets visions

Believe it or not .... the breach is there and can be found in all of the related prophetic visions

Understanding this truth is essential if one is going to interpret the same with accuracy
There's no scripture that can prove that.

Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Care to name these
four kings?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Hannibal...you're in wonderland.

The temple in Heaven opened when Christ ascended...once again what did Jesus say when he whne into the temple and ran out the money changers?

He sad "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up"...:thumbsup:

Just as we are told that those feast days are a shadow of things to come, the things those things shadowed, came.

Revelation 21:6 '' It is done.''

But this does not talk about an event that happened 2000 years ago, it speaks of a future fulfillment of what those words meant when it was once said before.

Revelation 16:17 '' It is done.''


Just as it was when it was said by Jesus,'' It is done,'' there are thunderings and lightnings and an Earthquake because Jesus words only foreshadowed these words being spoken.


Jesus came to die on the Passover, but he was also the Sukkot Bull and the Pentecost sacrifices, he was the Yom Kippor sacrifice also.

That was his first coming in the first rain.


The same type of thing happens in the second rain, only this time, it is a host of believers who have walked the walk of Jesus.

They must also die, but they will be raised 3 and a half days later as Jesus was.


What was a local event, becomes a global event.
 
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ebedmelech

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Just as we are told that those feast days are a shadow of things to come, the things those things shadowed, came.

Revelation 21:6 '' It is done.''

But this does not talk about an event that happened 2000 years ago, it speaks of a future fulfillment of what those words meant when it was once said before.

Revelation 16:17 '' It is done.''


Just as it was when it was said by Jesus,'' It is done,'' there are thunderings and lightnings and an Earthquake because Jesus words only foreshadowed these words being spoken.


Jesus came to die on the Passover, but he was also the Sukkot Bull and the Pentecost sacrifices, he was the Yom Kippor sacrifice also.

That was his first coming in the first rain.


The same type of thing happens in the second rain, only this time, it is a host of believers who have walked the walk of Jesus.

They must also die, but they will be raised 3 and a half days later as Jesus was.


What was a local event, becomes a global event.
Just remember Hannibal...it says "shadow of things to come" because a shadow is a reflection of the REAL THING...now...you think on that! :thumbsup:
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Just remember Hannibal...it says "shadow of things to come" because a shadow is a reflection of the REAL THING...now...you think on that! :thumbsup:

A shadow of things to come is a rehearsal for the real event.



What we see is that Jesus came for the spring rains and when he died on the cross, he said,'' It is done.''


The same thing happens in the fall rains where all those who are among the two witnesses who are the 144,000 are killed, and it will be said,'' It is done.''


And then there will be a great Earthquake.
 
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ebedmelech

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A shadow of things to come is a rehearsal for the real event.



What we see is that Jesus came for the spring rains and when he died on the cross, he said,'' It is done.''


The same thing happens in the fall rains where all those who are among the two witnesses who are the 144,000 are killed, and it will be said,'' It is done.''


And then there will be a great Earthquake.
Nope. The scriptures communicate the WISDOM of God!!! God...who created us ALL know that a shadow is a reflection of you...and all those feasts, are reflecting Christ!!!

Now...in your Jewishness, you can deny all you want...but this is the INFINITE WISDOM OF GOD!!!

So...you better get in line!!! It's about Yeshua Hamashiach!!!

KEEP IT REAL!!! :thumbsup: :amen:
 
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Bible2

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precepts said in post 472:

You've said several times in previous posts that the four beasts in Dan 7 equal kingdoms, but they don't they represent kings:

Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Daniel 7:23 shows that the 4 "kings" in Daniel 7:17 are 4 "kingdoms"/empires, which is similar to Revelation 17:10, where the 7 "kings" are 7 empires, represented by the 7 heads of the beast in Revelation 17:3. It's the 10 horns of this beast which represent 10 individual human kings, who "have received no kingdom as yet" (Revelation 17:12), and who will receive power as kings only when the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, does (Revelation 17:12b).
 
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Interplanner said in post 476:

Elijah has already come and they did to him what they wanted.

Matthew 17:10-13 can be understood as referring to two different comings of Elijah, the first being John the Baptist's coming "in the spirit and power of Elijah" (Luke 1:17, Matthew 17:12-13), and the 2nd being a still-future physical coming-back of Elijah himself, when he will restore all things (Matthew 17:11), in the sense of restoring all true doctrine, i.e. all true interpretation of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16), to the church. This still-future, physical coming-back of Elijah himself could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, when Elijah could come back bodily from heaven as one of the two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-12).

That is, in Revelation 11:3-12 the two witnesses could be Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4. the "two olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues that the two witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues that Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14). Elijah never died, but was taken bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated back to mortal life, like, for example, Lazarus' dead body was resuscitated back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could appear alive and well at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The two witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That's why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the two witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues that they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus, G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).
 
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Bible2

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HannibalFlavius quoted Chumney in post 477:

We cannot go to the Book of Revelation and say that the voice of the seventh angel (Revelation 11:15) is the last trump.

That's right.

Regarding the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), it doesn't refer to any coming of Jesus. Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to the future point in time (Revelation 4:1b) when Jesus will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's 10 kings (Revelation 17:12-13). It won't be until a little later that Jesus will take de facto, physical control of the earth at his 2nd coming and during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

Jesus' 2nd coming won't occur immediately after the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet and the declaration of the legal replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Revelation 11:15). For a "time" (Revelation 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14). (It's like if someone said "It's time to sell this house"; this doesn't mean that it will get sold immediately.) The only part of Revelation 11:18 that will happen immediately after the 7th trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come", for the plagues of the vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

So the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, won't be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52. The latter won't sound until after the entire tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which won't occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the church will be resurrected (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Before the 2nd coming, the tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for 75 days. For the first vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly an android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible 75-day vials-delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California 75 days before he moves there to live in that house.

At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will resurrect and judge only the church (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27), and then he will marry the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12). Then Revelation 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and the rewarding of the church spoken of in Revelation 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth spoken of in Revelation 11:18, could occur 75 days after the 7th trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Revelation 11:18.

Everyone not resurrected and judged at Jesus' 2nd coming won't be resurrected and judged until Revelation 20:11-15, which won't occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the bodily resurrected church have reigned on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Revelation 11:18's "time". For the original Greek word (kairos, G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Corinthians 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people getting saved, which has been going on for thousands of years.

HannibalFlavius quoted Chumney in post 477:

The festivals will, beyond a shadow of a doubt, tell you that the resurrection of the dead precedes the time of Jacob's trouble (also known as the tribulation).

The time of Jacob's trouble which he will be saved out of (Jeremiah 30:7) won't be the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, but only the final pillaging of the Jews in Jerusalem at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns and saves them (Zechariah 14:2-5). The church, including Gentile believers (Revelation 7:9,14), will be in the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6).

HannibalFlavius quoted Chumney in post 477:

First Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that the dead in Messiah will rise first, and that the catching away of the believers will immediately follow

Note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Instead, the Bible makes clear that Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and all the armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

--

The mistaken idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is dangerous because when no pre-tribulation rapture occurs, and pre-trib believers begin to suffer in the tribulation, they could think that God has somehow been defeated by Satan, that Satan by his power has caused a pre-trib rapture not to happen despite God wanting one to. Or they could think that God has cruelly broken his (supposed) promise, that he has pulled the rug out from under them, that he cruelly lied to them and must now be laughing at their surprise and suffering (Proverbs 1:26), so that in their rage they could curse God and commit apostasy during the tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

And even if they instead rightly think, "Okay, we must have just been mistaken in thinking that the rapture was supposed to be pre-trib. Satan hasn't defeated God, and God didn't lie to us", nonetheless, because they had held so strongly to the pre-trib idea for so long, their minds could be completely unprepared to face the long tribulation that lies ahead of them (just as holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of preterism, or historicism, or symbolicism, or spiritualism, could leave some believers less prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation).

The Bible gives those in the church clear warning ahead of time about everything that they're going to have to face during the future tribulation (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), so that they can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that's coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), that is, until death or until Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).
 
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HannibalFlavius said in post 479:

In Joel 2:16, we see the
marriage of the bride (the believers in Yeshua) and the bridegroom
(Yeshua) where the bridegroom is going forth from the chamber and the
bride out of her closet.

In Joel 2:16, the original Hebrew word (qadash, H6942) translated as "sanctify" can simply mean "prepare" (Joel 3:9), and so can be used in Joel in the sense of preparing the people to pray for God's mercy via a fast (Joel 2:15-17, cf. Esther 4:16), including a fast without offerings (Joel 1:13-14).

Joel 2:16's bridegroom and bride going forth referred to the need for even literal newlywed bridegrooms and brides at that ancient time to abandon their honeymoons and join in the public fasting and prayer of Joel 2:15-17.

The greater context of Joel 2:16, the passage of Joel 2:1-27, can refer poetically to a literal locust invasion which destroyed ancient Israel's crops (Joel 2:25) sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the first century AD (Joel 2:28-29, Acts 2:16-18). For the day of the Lord in Joel 2:1-27 can refer to an ancient day of the Lord, like the ancient day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:2,10. Both of these ancient days of the Lord can be different than the future day of the Lord (Joel 2:31) which won't start until sometime after the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12, Joel 2:31) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the future day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Joel 2:1 referring to only Zion, the holy mountain, and the land, can mean that it's referring to only a localized day of the Lord which affected only the ancient Israelites on their land. Joel 2:2 can refer to a huge cloud of literal locusts darkening the skies of Israel. Just as literal ants can be referred to as "a people" (Hebrew: "am", H5971) (Proverbs 30:25), so a huge cloud of devouring locusts can be referred to poetically as "a great people (H5971) and a strong" (Joel 2:2). Joel 2:3b describes the effects of a locust invasion, which can be poetically expressed as being like a devouring fire (Joel 2:3a). Joel 2:4 can describe locusts running along the ground as looking like little horses. Joel 2:5 can poetically describe locusts leaping high, and devouring every plant down even to its stubble. "A strong people set in battle array" (Joel 2:5) brings to mind another poetic description of a locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands", that is, distributed into ranks (Hebrew "chatsats", H2686) (Proverbs 30:27).

Joel 2:6 can poetically describe the immense grief felt by the ancient Israelites as they witnessed all their crops being devoured by the locust swarm. Joel 2:7 can describe locusts running along the ground and climbing up walls. "They shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks" (Joel 2:7) again brings to mind another poetic description of a locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands" (Proverbs 30:27). Joel 2:8 can refer to the locusts in the swarm not attacking each other, and to how useless a sword was in fighting against them. Because locusts are so small and have an exoskeleton, they can just bounce off a swinging sword as they fly along. Joel 2:9 can refer to locusts running along the ground through a city, climbing up onto the walls of buildings and into windows looking for food anywhere they can.

Joel 2:10 can be poetic hyperbole to express how terrible the locust swarm was to the land of Israel, and how the swarm was so vast that it darkened the skies of Israel completely. The original Hebrew word (erets, H0776) translated as "the earth" (Joel 2:10) can refer to only a local area of land (e.g. Genesis 2:11,13), like, for example, our word "earthquake" today can refer to only a local event. Joel 2:11 shows that the literal locust swarm wasn't from Satan, fallen angels, or evil nephilim, but was considered by God to be his own "army", as it were (Joel 2:25). Joel 2:20 can mean that God's literal locust "army" (Joel 2:25) came from the north into the land of Israel, and that the swarm was eventually sent off by God into the barren desert, where the locusts died of starvation and their millions of dead bodies rotted in the sun and sent up a great stench. Joel 2:25 shows that it was literal locusts, and other plant-destroying insects, which God considered to be "my great army which I sent among you".

Joel 2:28-29 shows that the locusts devoured ancient Israel's crops sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the first century AD. For Joel 2:28-29 began to happen sometime "afterward", sometime after the locust invasion of Joel 2:1-27. And Joel 2:28-29 began to happen at the Acts 2 day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-18).

HannibalFlavius said in post 479:

After the honeymoon in heaven,
Yeshua will be returning with His bride to attend the marriage supper
(Revelation 19:7-14).

The 10-virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just like Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the (never fulfilled) tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).

The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:17-21).

Also, regarding the 10-virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6 "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).
 
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Interplanner

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Joel's wedding theme is why the wedding is an analogy to the Gospel's appeal to Israel in the 1st century (Mt 22) and he means the Gospel's events (inc. the coming of the Spirit) in the same prophecy.

You guys are masters at not seeing how the NT uses the OT. B2 says there is either a day of the Lord in the ancient past or off in the Rev but not what the NT says. B2 never uses the authoritative, official, apostolic interp of the OT by the NT.
 
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You say this, but B2 is very knowledgeable of much of scripture, and does use the very thing that you say B2 never uses

I do disagree with B2 on B2's negation of a pre-tribulation "harpazo" and a post tribulation view .... and I do not support the MSOG latter rain teachings

I believe that your idea of a suppressed OT controlled by what you call apostolic interpretation of the same is bogus .... and dangerous .... too much open ended ground for human manipulation

The Lord's Word is one book .... not two with one outclassing the other

Not only that but the Lord's book of Revelation is the capstone of the entire Bible giving a summation of all things and this revelation is highly integrated with the Bible prophets

The division that you make is arbitrary and a mistake in my opinion ... in fact the original manuscripts do not contain chapter headings, numbered verses, and subject definitions

All of this is man made .... can be helpful for the reader, but also very mis-leading for those who choose arbitrary dividings

Also, this posting is about the coming of Elijah ..... the Lord has said the he has already come

This section of the forum is loaded with the trailing off of subject matter .... how could any unbeliever who needs Jesus Christ ever make any sense out of it all

A setting filled with bickering and self serving gamesmanship will never be an effective witness to those who are lost

Almost every posting forces the reader/poster off of the trail .... it would be better to clean this habit up and stick to the subject at hand
 
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precepts

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Daniel 7:23 shows that the 4 "kings" in Daniel 7:17 are 4 "kingdoms"/empires,
Care to name these four kings?






, which is similar to Revelation 17:10, where the 7 "kings" are 7 empires,


Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Is the Beast not a man/king with the seven kings on the seven hills (Rome)? There's nothing here saying they are empires. If you list the 4 kings/beasts in Dan 7, you would understand the 1st Roman Emperor/king Augustus Caesar was the 4th king/beast of the four. He's also the 1st king of the 10 kings in Rev 17:12 because the 10 kings are the first 10 scriptural Roman emperors. The Beast is the 8th king of the ten and seven.

If the 7 heads were 7 kings/empires they would be described in Rev 13's first beast, but their not. Rev 13's first beast is described with the parts of the 4 beasts in Dan 7 because they represent the 4 kings in Dan 7. The 2nd in Rev 13 would then represent a 5th king, the 11th horn. This is why the 4th beast in Dan 7 is just described as having 10 horns, because this is the first 10 scriptural Roman kings/emperors.







represented by the 7 heads of the beast in Revelation 17:3.
You're purposely promote false doctrine, contradicting scripture:


Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
You're purposely promoting false doctrine because this is the third time I've quoted this to you. But I will continue posting the facts so the world can see what's happening on these sites. It should be a violation of these sites to ignore the facts for opinions.







It's the 10 horns of this beast which represent 10 individual human kings, who "have received no kingdom as yet" (Revelation 17:12), and who will receive power as kings only when the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, does (Revelation 17:12b).
The ten horns are the ten kings and the 7 and 8th kings. The 7 heads are mountains, and "there," in describing the Beast, the scriptures says, are 7 kings (on the mountains), five are fallen, etc., the Beast is the 8th. It's just pointing out the pattern and the time of John's vision.

The 7 heads do not represent the 7 kings; they are mountains as mentiond in Rev 17:10. Augustus Caesar, the 1st Roman Emperor, is the 1st horn of the ten, just as Alexander was.

So who are the four kings/beast mentioned in Dan 7?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Ebed.


Do you believe that a Messianic age is coming where the saints will rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years?


If not, then why not?

If you do believe it, then what you believe in is the feast of Tabernacles.


Zechariah 14 is devoted to the Feast of Tabernacles, it is a day peculiar to the Lord when night turns to day as it happens on the feast of Tabernacles.


To wait on an incorruptible body is waiting on the promise of a New Sukkah where there is no more pain, no more suffering, no hunger, no tears, no thirst, but to live in a New Tabernacle created by God.

That's the promise of Sukkot that we wait upon.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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We have discussed the feasts in many ways on this thread, and I say it's extremely hard to relay what I believe about the feasts.

I look at the 3 main feasts as being a part of my being, or rather that I can progress through a stage and come into a time of Sukkot, a state of being as it were. A state that is the time of my joy.


I don't know if I can relay what I think, but a good practice would be to show the feasts in what Jesus says in parables.


The way I read these parables is that Jesus gives us 3 parables that represent our being in 3 ways.

The sower is the barley harvest where Jesus was sown into the ground.
The wheat is the wheat harvest
The mustard seed is Tabernacles.
The parable of the leaven being mixed in these 3 are showing a flawed being with leaven present in Body, in soul, and in spirit.

I look at these things like a ladder of progression that a person can achieve.

So I see Passover in my flesh, and Pentecost in my soul, and Sukkot in my spirit.

Just about every time we see a parable of the kingdom of heaven, that parable is showing what our being is in 3 ways.


The Parable of the Sower


1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side. 2And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; 4And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: 5Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: 6And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: 8But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



The Purpose of Jesus' Parables


10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.



The Parable of the Sower Explained



18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The Parable of the Weeds
(Ezekiel 17:1-10)

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


The Parable of the Mustard Seed


31Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

The Parable of the Leaven


33Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.


I will Open My Mouth in Parables

34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world
 
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HannibalFlavius

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The subject of Elijah carries across many subjects, and learning who and what Elijah is, is to learn who he is in the festivals.


John the Baptist was a picture of part of Jesus sacrifice, and so was Judah.


The head of the sacrifice has to be cut off and put in it's place and viewed, just as the head of John was cut off, and John himself said that he must diminish, and Jesus must become the head.

The intestines of the sacrifice must also be taken out and be seen, just as it was with Judas, Judas could not have possibly been strangled, because a strangled sacrifice is not acceptable.

These 3-Judas-John-Jesus show us 3 people representing body, soul, and spirit.

Or we could look at Elijah, Moses, and Jesus in that picture, a picture of the design of the kingdom of heaven, being that the design shows what our being is in 3 parts.

Just as we can look at Jesus on the cross with two people on either side of him. One is saved, and the other is lost.

Just as we can view the 2 sons of thunder as one on the left, one on the right, and Peter in the middle, looking at the 3 in the transfiguration.

Just as we can look at the 3 main feasts.
Just as we can look at the two kingdoms and the city.
Just as we can look at the 3 sections of the Temple.
Just as we can look at Esau, Jacob, and Israel.
Just as we can look at the 3 sons of Noah.
Just as we can look at Nahor, Abraham, and Harran.
Just as we can look at the 3 sons of Noah.
Just as we can look at Miriam, Aaron, and Moses.
Just as we can look at the 3 sons of Adam.
Just as we can look at the 3 in the garden.


Passover-Pentecost-Tabernacles teaches us what our being is, and the 3 sections of the temple likewise show us what our being is.


We can see what is happening in these 3 things, by viewing them through the seals, the trumpets, and the bowls.

They are showing what is happening in the body, what is happening in the soul, and what is happening in the spirit.


If we are reading things that happens in the trumpets, then it is showing us a perspective from a third part of our being.

Seventh Seal: Prelude to the Seven Trumpets

8 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
First Trumpet: Vegetation Struck

7 The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

Hail-flesh
fire-spirit
blood-soul.

Trees are people who support other people, trees are educated and have become trees. Green grass is the spirit in the majority.

The trees, the grass, the ships, the hail, the fire, the creatures in the sea, none of these things are speaking of the literal things. Each one is symbolic for something else.


If fire and hail mingled with blood falls, it means that a huge number of people have just fallen in spirit.

We see people standing on a sea of glass because they are saved, but what happens when the glass shatters under their feet and they fall?

Then you have Hail{crystal}, fire, and blood falling.


If a third of the ships are destroyed, what do ships represent?

Each person is a ship, one side of the ship is named,'' Issachar,'' and the other side of the ship is named,'' Zebulun.''

These two brothers are merchants upon the seas and they are preachers.

One side of the ship is for making money to support the other side of the ship for study.

It is a picture of our being that we go through this life making money to survive but the goal is to support the scholar within you.

When the scholar has been schooled enough, he then jumps out of the ship and becomes a creature of the sea.

He becomes food for the masses just as Jesus asked 3 times,'' Do you love me?''


''Feed MY People!'', Peter had jumped from the ship, and became the catch.

Jesus asked the question 3 times because he asked in body, in soul, and in spirit. He asked in Isaachar, in Zebulun, and in Judah.




Second Trumpet: The Seas Struck

8 Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
Third Trumpet: The Waters Struck

10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.
Fourth Trumpet: The Heavens Struck

12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.
13 And I looked, and I heard an angel[b] flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, “Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”
 
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Interplanner said in post 493:

Joel's wedding theme is why the wedding is an analogy to the Gospel's appeal to Israel in the 1st century (Mt 22) and he means the Gospel's events (inc. the coming of the Spirit) in the same prophecy.

Note that Matthew 22:1-14 makes no reference to Joel 2:16.

But regarding "the coming of the Spirit", just as when Matthew says "this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias" (Matthew 3:3-4), he means that John the Baptist is the fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3, so when Peter says "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" (Acts 2:16-18), he means that what happened at the Pentecost in Acts 2 began the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32. For just as Joel 2:28-32 prophesied the receiving of the Holy Spirit in the "last days" (Acts 2:16-17), so the disciples had just received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:4). And this happened in the "last days", for they began at Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2). Acts 2:17 continues to be fulfilled today whenever a Christian receives Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Joel 2:30-31 won't be fulfilled until the future tribulation (e.g. Revelation 6:12, Revelation 8:7, Revelation 17:16, Revelation 16:19). And Joel 2:32 won't be ultimately fulfilled until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Zechariah 12:10-14).
 
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Time Watcher said in post 494:

I do disagree with B2 on B2's negation of a pre-tribulation "harpazo" and a post tribulation view .... and I do not support the MSOG latter rain teachings

Note that what has been presented hasn't been based on MSOG teachings (which have never even been looked at), but on the Bible itself.

Also, no claim has been made regarding being one of the 144,000 (the man child).

Also, it hasn't been said that the 144,000 are of any one denomination, but rather that they're one part of the church as a whole. I.e., members of the 144,000 can be spread across all denominations.

The 144,000 will be literal male virgins, never having had intercourse with women (Revelation 14:4), just as, for example, 1 Corinthians 7:25 refers to literal virgins. And literal male virgins can be found in all denominations.

Also, the number 144,000 in Revelation 7:4 and Revelation 14:1,3 will be a literal number of people, which will consist of literally 12 groups with literally 12,000 people in each group (Revelation 7:5-8). And even each group can be spread across all denominations.
 
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