When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

[Jon Anon]

3 so elijah can restore all things...john never restored all things

 

[ViaCrucis]

3 so elijah can restore all things...john never restored all things

Jesus said the Elijah who was to restore all things already came. That's in the text, rather explicitly.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jon Anon]

Ah, you're right, Jesus does say the following, "He answered, 'Elijah does come, and he will restore all things.'" (Matthew 17:11).

One problem though:

"But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands." (Matthew 17:12)

So how many layers again?

-CryptoLutheran

3 layers the final elijah restores all things....john never restored all things

 

[ViaCrucis]

3 layers the final elijah restores all things....john never restored all things

So you keep insisting, in spite of what Jesus Himself said. Perhaps the problem isn't with Matthew 17:12, but rather with your understanding of the mission to restore all things.

Here's a hint: What was John doing out there in the wilderness? If you guessed that he was preparing the Way of the Lord, then you're right on the money.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jon Anon]

So you keep insisting, in spite of what Jesus Himself said. Perhaps the problem isn't with Matthew 17:12, but rather with your understanding of the mission to restore all things.

Here's a hint: What was John doing out there in the wilderness? If you guessed that he was preparing the Way of the Lord, then you're right on the money.

-CryptoLutheran

Do you not notice malachi states I will send elijah before "the great" and "terrible" day of the lord....john fulfilled coming before the "great" day of the lord (salvation)and the final elijah will come before the "terrible" (judgement)day of the lord.....two comings of Jesus and two arrivals of elijah....you are set in your way of thinking and I dont see you being open to other than what you have been trained to think....God Bless

 

[Brian45]

John 1:19 - Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”
He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”
And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?”
He said, “I am not.”
“Are you the Prophet?”
And he answered, “No.”
Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”
He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Make straight the way of the Lord,” as the prophet Isaiah said.”


I think it is worth noting here that John when asked if he was Elijah answers by saying that he is not Elijah , and then says that Isaiah spoke of him.

He doe's "not" say that he is Elijah and that Malachi spoke of him to restore all things because that is yet future.

Like to talk more but wife is pushing me to do some work around the house...

 

[bibletruth469]

To Jon : Daniel 9:24-27 lays out the time frame allocated for the Jews . God has declared 70 weeks. Each week stands for 1 biblical year. Notice that the 70 weeks are not continuous , but are broken up in the passage . It is consisted of 7, 62 weeks and 1 week. The 7 weeks (49 ) and the 62(434) has already passed . What's left is a total of 1 week. I believe that this is the tribulation period that lasts a total of 7 years according to this passage in Daniel .

However , it is interesting what you mentioned about the 10 days of awe and how it may represent 10 years. I still do not see how it relates to the tribulation period . Maybe you could elaborate further on this. Thanks

 

[Jon Anon]

To Jon : Daniel 9:24-27 lays out the time frame allocated for the Jews . God has declared 70 weeks. Each week stands for 1 biblical year. Notice that the 70 weeks are not continuous , but are broken up in the passage . It is consisted of 7, 62 weeks and 1 week. The 7 weeks (49 ) and the 62(434) has already passed . What's left is a total of 1 week. I believe that this is the tribulation period that lasts a total of 7 years according to this passage in Daniel .

However , it is interesting what you mentioned about the 10 days of awe and how it may represent 10 years. I still do not see how it relates to the tribulation period . Maybe you could elaborate further on this. Thanks

There are 7 years from when satan is described as being cast down in Rev. 12 but it is not until 42 months of jacobs trouble(separate from 7 year tribulation) are finished.

Rev 2:10 again shows 10 days of tribulation and we know it will not be 10 days the more likely time period is 10 years each day representing a year just as daniel speaks of the 'week' actually being 7 years

Rev 2:10
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(years): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
(if the tribulation is only 10 days wouldn't that be nice...maybe I will lose 10 pounds and can you even get that many people into prison in 10 days of course not.....it means 10 years)

 

[bibletruth469]

There are 7 years from when satan is described as being cast down in Rev. 12 but it is not until 42 months of jacobs trouble(separate from 7 year tribulation) are finished.

Rev 2:10 again shows 10 days of tribulation and we know it will not be 10 days the more likely time period is 10 years each day representing a year just as daniel speaks of the 'week' actually being 7 years

Rev 2:10
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(years): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
(if the tribulation is only 10 days wouldn't that be nice...maybe I will lose 10 pounds and can you even get that many people into prison in 10 days of course not.....it means 10 years)

According to rev 11, the two witnesses( I believe to be Elijah and Moses) will proohesy in the holy city for 42 months. I think this will occur at the 2nd 1/2 of the trib, after the antichrist declares himself to be god in the temple . After this time, they are killed and then raised up after 3 1/2 days. How can extra years, 3 in your opinion be added to the tribulation period which I still think is a total of 7 years according to Daniel and also revelation ?

 

[ViaCrucis]

John 1:19 - Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”
He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”
And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?”
He said, “I am not.”
“Are you the Prophet?”
And he answered, “No.”
Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”
He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Make straight the way of the Lord,” as the prophet Isaiah said.”


I think it is worth noting here that John when asked if he was Elijah answers by saying that he is not Elijah , and then says that Isaiah spoke of him.

He doe's "not" say that he is Elijah and that Malachi spoke of him to restore all things because that is yet future.

Like to talk more but wife is pushing me to do some work around the house...

I'm not sure why people always bring this passage up as though it negates what the Son of God Himself had to say.

I'm wholly comfortable with St. John the Baptist being wrong, I'm not so comfortable saying the Lord Himself is wrong. If I have to choose between Jesus or John the Baptist as to who has the better inside information on the subject, it's an easy choice to be made.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[intojoy]

Do you not notice malachi states I will send elijah before "the great" and "terrible" day of the lord....john fulfilled coming before the "great" day of the lord (salvation)and the final elijah will come before the "terrible" (judgement)day of the lord.....two comings of Jesus and two arrivals of elijah....you are set in your way of thinking and I dont see you being open to other than what you have been trained to think....God Bless

Dr Crypt doesn't believe in a Day of The Lord

 

[Brian45]

I'm not sure why people always bring this passage up as though it negates what the Son of God Himself had to say.

I'm wholly comfortable with St. John the Baptist being wrong, I'm not so comfortable saying the Lord Himself is wrong. If I have to choose between Jesus or John the Baptist as to who has the better inside information on the subject, it's an easy choice to be made.

-CryptoLutheran

Yeah I don't think either of them were wrong , some posters here have already posted this but I'll do it again.

And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things.

When Jesus said that , John was already dead.

 

[intojoy]

Clearly predicted to occur before the Tribulation is the return of Elijah in Malachi 4:5-6: Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. V erse 5 pinpoints the return of Elijah as coming before the Day of Jehovah, namely before the Tribulation. V erse 6 goes on to describe the nature of Elijah's ministry when he returns: that of a Jewish family reunion program. The Jewish family unit, strong for so many centuries, has in these last days begun to break down and, according to the prophetic word, it will continue to break down. The ministry of Elijah is to restore this unity in preparation for the Second Coming of the Messiah.

There is a great deal of confusion concerning the relationship of Elijah to John the Baptist. It should be kept in mind that Elijah was never promised before the First Coming of the Messiah. Elijah was only promised to come before the Second Coming of the Messiah and before the Tribulation itself. However, a forerunner was predicted before the First Coming of the Messiah in Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3-5. This was fulfilled by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:1-6; 11:7-10; and John 1:23. But while John the Baptist fulfilled those prophecies concerning the forerunner before the First Coming of the Messiah, he was not Elijah who was promised before the Second Coming. This becomes clear when all of the relevant passages are taken into account.

One important passage bearing on this question is found in John 1:19-23: And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent unto him from Jerusalem priests and Levites to ask him, Who are you? And he confessed and denied not; and he confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he said, I am not. Are you the prophet? And he answered, No. They said therefore unto him, Who are you? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What say you of yourself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet. In this passage, John the Baptist makes it clear that he is not Elijah. He never claimed to be Elijah, and when asked, he denied it. He only claimed to be the fulfillment of the Isaiah prophecy.

The next passage is found in Matthew 17:9-13: And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen from the dead. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come? And he answered and said, Elijah indeed comes, and shall restore all things: but I say unto you, that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they would. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them. Then understood the disciples that he spoke unto them of John the Baptist. In answer to the disciples' question regarding the coming of Elijah, the Messiah first states, using the future tense, that Elijah will indeed come to restore all things, which is a strong allusion to his ministry mentioned in Malachi 4:6. But this was a promise in relation to the Second Coming, not the First Coming. Hence, Elijah is yet to come to do the ministry of restoration. The disciples' confusion at this stage was due to the fact that they did not yet understand the twofold coming of the Messiah and were still expecting the Kingdom to be set up at that time. The parallel passage in Mark 9:9-13 adds the point that if Elijah had come before the First Coming and restored all things, then all the prophecies of the sufferings of the First Coming would remain unfulfilled. Elijah will indeed come first but first before the Second Coming, not before the First Coming. John the Baptist did not accomplish the Elijah's ministry of restoration.

The Messiah then adds that in one sense John the Baptist was Elijah. But in what sense? Two other passages answer that. The first is in Matthew 11:11-14: Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and men of violence take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye are willing to receive it, this is Elijah, that is to come. To understand what is being said, it should be noted that the Messiah is preaching the good news of the Kingdom in verses 11-12. If Israel had received the Kingdom, then John the Baptist would have fulfilled the function of Elijah and would have accomplished the ministry of restoration. But the Kingdom was rejected and hence, John the Baptist did not fulfill the function of Elijah; thus Elijah is yet to come to accomplish the work of restoration.

The second passage answering the question as to what way John the Baptist was Elijah is in Luke 1:13-17: But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: because your supplication is heard, and your wife Elisabeth shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you shall have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and he shall drink no wine not strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall be turn unto the Lord their God. And he shall go before his face in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to walk in the wisdom of the just; to make ready for the Lord a people prepared for him. In announcing the coming birth of John the Baptist, the angel declares that he will come in the spirit and power of Elijah.

Consolidating what these verses are saying, some time before the Tribulation Elijah the Prophet will return to do his work of restoration. Thus, Elijah will serve as a forerunner of the Messiah's Second Coming in the same way as John the Baptist was the forerunner of the Messiah's First Coming. John was a type of Elijah in that he came in the spirit and power of Elijah. If Israel had accepted the message, then John the Baptist would have accomplished the function of Elijah, which was the work of restoration. However, John the Baptist and the Messiah were both rejected, and so Elijah is yet to come to perform the work of restoration before the Tribulation.

As with the first blackout, it is not possible to pinpoint at this time exactly when Elijah will come before the Tribulation. Therefore, it is impossible to place his coming in any chronological sequence of events.

http://www.ariel.org/mbsnit.htm

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yeah I don't think either of them were wrong , some posters here have already posted this but I'll do it again.

And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things.

When Jesus said that , John was already dead.

Yes, and if you keep reading, Jesus said, "Elijah has already come".

"As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." - Matthew 17:9-13

I've done nothing in this thread except to point directly to the explicit word of Scripture, which has been rejected because it doesn't fit into certain people's eschatological timetables.

Jesus said the Elijah who was to come, to restore all things, was John the Baptist.

That's what Jesus said, that is the plain, ordinary, explicit statement here. What perplexes me is why so many keep pretending like it's not there.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Brian45]

Yes, and if you keep reading, Jesus said, "Elijah has already come".

"As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." - Matthew 17:9-13

I've done nothing in this thread except to point directly to the explicit word of Scripture, which has been rejected because it doesn't fit into certain people's eschatological timetables.

Jesus said the Elijah who was to come, to restore all things, was John the Baptist.

That's what Jesus said, that is the plain, ordinary, explicit statement here. What perplexes me is why so many keep pretending like it's not there.

-CryptoLutheran

There isn't anything that I could tell you that hasn't already been said in post 53 by intojoy. It's a good read and i'm surprised that you missed it.

 

[Serpentslayer]

John the Baptist came in the Power and Spirit of Elijah to restore all things in preparing the way for the Christ.

John the Baptist was called the MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT, because there is only ONE COVENANT as far as God the Father is concerned.

Now to understand John the Baptist ministry we need to consolidate it with Old Testament prophetic word.

Zechariah 10:4
From Judah will come the cornerstone, from him the tent peg, from him the battle bow, from him every ruler.

Cornerstone = Christ shows the way

Tent Peg or Holy Temple builder = God the Holy Spirit (Pentecost) starts work on the founding cornerstone to build up the body of Christ, the church.

Finally

Battle Bow = God the Father (Ancient of Days) on the Great Day of Battle / Days of Slaughter to make an end of things

Malachi 4:6
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

It is clear that the LAST ELIJAH DOES NOT DECLARE THE COMING OF THE SON BUT IN FACT ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE DECLARES THE COMING JUDGEMENTS OF THE HOLY HEAVENLY FATHER.

Well lets read scripture according to Zechariah 10:4 verse above of who comes when. Now the triune function of the Godhead is complete after the Father makes an end of all things by destroying the earth and its inhabitants.

Now the versus below speak of the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD that began when the Old Covenant tombs were opened in fulfilment to Ezekiel 37:11-14.

These Old covenant saints are the first fruits, so the sequence of the resurrection of the dead is as follows:

1) Christ as our forerunner
2) Firstfruits = Old Covenant Saints
3) Every New Covenant Saint when they die individually to receive their inheritance to eternal life already laid up for them by Christ. The Lord's coming is when the thief (death) comes knocking on our house's door (earthly body) to destroy it (kill it) in a day and hour we least expect it and that is when we die.

Finally

4) God the Father comes to make an end of things by putting everything as ash under the feet of the Son as his footstool. The Father's job is to annihilate man, beast and earth as the context of Malachi 4:11“Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.

1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

So John the Baptist came to proclaim the Kingdom of Christ on earth through Christ's body of believers, his church that the temple builder God the Holy Spirit was assigned to build on top of the founding cornerstone Jesus Christ.

The last Elijah is proclaiming the ULTIMATUM of ACCEPTING CHRIST BY FAITH or ELSE accept the unquenched wrath of GOD THE FATHER.

So the last Elijah is trying to reconcile as many as are willing to God the Father through the gospel of the reconciliatory Son Christ Jesus before the END COMES SUDDENLY UPON THEM like the Days of Noah.

That end day generation will no doubt see spectacular cosmic events impacting on their lives and so the End Time Elijah will be like JONAH WHO WENT TO THE MEN OF NINEVEH to warn them BEFORE THEY WOULD BE TOTALLY ANNIHILATED.

If there are people who believe that the Elijah is coming before Christ's second coming, think again because this then becomes:

DOUBLE DUTCH

Why?

Because the DAILY DOUBLE IS THE COUNTERFEIT ARTIST THE DEVIL who will be received by many who are given the STRONG DELUSION, so that they will end up being executed by God the Father.

 

[Interplanner]

The "first" Elijah did those same things. He is the only Elijah "if you can accept it" says Mt 16.

What do you, Serpent..., propose is the "double delusion"?

Why do you think Elijah and Moses were talking about the Gospel in the Transfiguration scene, and not something else?

Editing: Try to use normal font when you write. It gets confusing otherwise.

Also reread yourself before you post. For ex., "Cornerstone = Christ shows the way." Really? Is that what a cornerstone is? Is that what cornerstones do?

 

[Serpentslayer]

I recently made a post regarding the Lord's appearing, WHERE ALL EYES SHALL SEE HIM, including the wicked.

Did you know that happens when a person dies, that was explained by Jesus as the thief (death) coming in a day and hour to destroy (kill) your earthly house (body).

Remember when Jesus told the chief priest that he shall see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power, coming with the angelic white cloud, how is that possible when he is long dead.

This happened when the chief priest died.

So all eyes will see him the good (sheep) and the wicked (goats/tares) is when a person is destined to die, then immediately the Lord's appearing and then judgement.

That is why Saint Stephen witnessed by saying I see the heavens opened and the Son of man sitting in the right hand of God meaning that the Son is the judge sitting as God on the heavenly throne.

So how is the whole world going to see him?

When they die!

Strong delusion is in believing the lie. The lie encompasses the list below:

1) Christ will appear in person in the earthly realm
2) Resurrection of the dead happens when he appears in the earthly realm
3) Christ has not yet received his Kingdom and is not sitting on the throne of David
4) Christ left us no inheritance
5) Our salvation is incomplete until Christ appears again in the earthly realm

So that when Satan manifests as the Abomination that maketh desolate, then those that hold onto the above lies will sure enough receive Satan as the false messiah.

This basic rule cannot be broken.

The world will only embrace the king of this earthly realm world satan.

Christ came once and completed everyone's migration visas when they depart to be reunited with him as angels in the heavenly dwelling place that is separate from the earthly realm.

 

[Serpentslayer]

Are you staying or are you going?

Let us not deceive one another, everyone is going to leave their earthly house. The question is do they have a heavenly house to go to?

 

[intojoy]

Thx Brian 45, I learned that from Dr Fruchtenbaum in his book Footsteps of the Messiah. It's a shame that every time eschatology gets posted that amillennialists
Jump in and try and force their corrections on us. It's doubly shameful because they're wrong. Via xs, interplanetary and others don't realize that everything written in Revelation was already recorded by the OT Prophets. The only new revelation in Revelation is the final two chapters speaking on the eternal order. Dr Fruchtenbaum's doctrinal dissertation at NYU is 1200 pages that was published as the book Isrealology the Missing Link in Systematic Theology. In that book the arguments made by Covenant Theologians gets torched into oblivion by the Word of God. One has to skip the first 700 pages to get to the doctrinal Isrealology. The first 600 plus pages is a verse by verse annihilation of the faulty views of eschatology espoused by the allegorical camp.