When was Satan "cast out" ?

[BABerean2]

We have seen much argument and confusion on this forum about the "binding" of Satan.

Many have belittled the Amill doctrine, without acknowledging the problems in their own system of interpretation.

Will the one who defeated sin and death at Calvary be conducting funeral services for 1,000 years after His return?

Do we find two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5, with one at verse 24 and another at verses 27-30?

Does Christ judge both the living and the dead at His return, as found in 2 Timothy 4:1?

If the judgment of the living occurs at His return as found in Matthew 25:31-46, how does this effect the Premill doctrine?

Why do we find "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, with reward for some and destruction for others?

Is the Book of Revelation in perfect chronological order, since we find Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19?

.........................................................

In the passage below Christ reveals when the ruler of this world was to be "cast out".

It would be near the time that He spoke these words.

It would be at Calvary, when He would be "lifted up from the earth".

What did Christ mean when He said the ruler of this world would "now" be "cast out"?


Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

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[pat34lee]

We have seen much argument and confusion on this forum about the "binding" of Satan.
Does Christ judge both the living and the dead at His return, as found in 2 Timothy 4:1?

Satan will probably be cast out of heaven at the beginning
of the tribulation, and bound after the tribulation finishes.
Today, he is still the accuser of the brethren at the throne.

He will be held for a thousand years during the millennial
reign and released for a short time for the last battle. Then
the earth and sky will be burned up and a new heaven and
earth will come down.

Then will be the time of the great white throne judgment.

The verse in 2 Timothy is speaking of the one Messiah at two
times in the future. His return and judgment day are a thousand
years apart.[/color]

 

[BABerean2]

Satan will probably be cast out of heaven at the beginning
of the tribulation, and bound after the tribulation finishes.
Today, he is still the accuser of the brethren at the throne.

He will be held for a thousand years during the millennial
reign and released for a short time for the last battle. Then
the earth and sky will be burned up and a new heaven and
earth will come down.

Then will be the time of the great white throne judgment.

The verse in 2 Timothy is speaking of the one Messiah at two
times in the future. His return and judgment day are a thousand
years apart.[/color]

You did not address most of the problems with what you are presenting, that were found in the opening post of this thread, nor did you address the text from John chapter 12 ???

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[rockytopva]

I believe that the big bang was in response to Lucifer's rebellion and probably happened at this time. Before the Big Bang - There dwelt...

1. The God head - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
2. Three groups of angels...
___a. Michael - Strong Angels
___b. Gabriel - Wise Angels
___c. Lucifer - Worshiping angels
3. There may have been others, but the bible does not give the account.

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: - Genesis 3:22

As in the previous scripture good and evil were known before the creation. There are probably long tales that could go along with this that I do not know of.
--------------------------------------------

I believe that the creation of this universe is in response to Lucifer's fall.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:- Isaiah 14:12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6

I believe that Satan messes with mankind with two intents...

1. The longing for the warmth of a body
2. They desire to keep us from their old first estate.
--------------------------------------------

I believe that the creation occurred 15 billion years after the fall of Lucifer. Let me break this one down...

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1

Space and mass - Nothing else

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:2

Space and mass - Nothing else
Waters - The Galactic Center of the Milky Way is obscured by dark clouds. As this center can be observed with infrared light I can only assume this as H2O water. If it were dust particles could it be seen with infrared God may have included dust particles in his definition of waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

As m = E/c2 so the mass dissociates into energy and light flowing out as plasma from a point of origins forming into what elements the Father willed it to.

*** I believe that 15 billion years transpired between Genesis 1:3-4***

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. - Genesis 1:4

Keep in mind that the first day has not occurred yet. By dividing the light from the darkness the earth is put in orbit around the sun, dividing the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:5

Now we are ready for the first day and the seven day creation story... 15 billion years from the time that God said, "Let there be light!" Now for Genesis 1:6-8

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus tells us when Satan fell out from heaven. This is the same event in Rev, Satan was evicted out from heaven, cast to the earth by Michael and his angels. Prior to this Satan could come and go from earth to heaven, recall what it says in Job. Now Satan has no more access to heaven, although he is still a prince of the power of the air as it says in Ephesians. This air is still considered of the earth.

Luke 10:17-19 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Seventy Return with Joy
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

At this time, His disciples received authority to trample-crush satanic power, occurred at this time Satan lost heavenly privilege to God, the accuser of the brethren has been cast down, who accused us to God.

Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

v10 describes the ministry of Christ, the kingdom of God, triumphant over Satan, which is what His disciples were now experiencing as Christ taught in Luke 10.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Perhaps this is more pertinent "cast out" for people living today: (it effects more today than ever before , regardless of when things change in heaven) ...

Matthew 9:35,Matthew 10:1,Matthew 10:7-11,Matthew ... - Bible Gateway
Matthew...10:7...6 - - Bible Gateway...
And Jesus went about all the cities and the villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the [a]gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of disease and all manner of sickness. ... Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received ...

What Is The Great Commission? - Believers.org
www.believers.org/believe/bel150.htm
Go teach disciples, in every people group, (who have all the Godhead backing them), to do what Jesus commanded His first disciples to do. ... That includes healing the sick and raising the dead! ... 17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons;

 

[TribulationSigns]

What I read so far is some people here got the timing of Satan casting out wrong. Wrong heaven. Satan is not a fallen angel as traditional teaching. He is a spirit.

I felt that these are too many subjects to discuss under this one thread alone that it does not make sense to cover everything here.

I have started a new thread about Satan/Fallen angels but I'll be watching this thread, though.

 

[Eloy Craft]

John 12-28
Father, glorify Your name.”Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”

Knowing the Name gives His followers the right to call on the Father ,Son and Holy Spirit who are One with the Name. Jesus say's the voice they heard was for their sake. This sign seems to indicate that He will be with them after His death and fulfill the promise to be with us till the end. The name is glorified also is a gift that has the power to cast out the prince of this world.

John 12-31
Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

The power of judgement casts Satan out. The power given to Christians since they gather in the Name and the Name belongs to them. Judgement comes to the world the prince rules. The world of darkness that is hidden from us is the world Satan will no longer have dominion over man. In the Name, Christians call judgement upon the powers of darkness. Jesus came in the Name of the Lord. The casting out began with Him in the world and continues in time by those who gather in His Name, and finally, when Jesus returns to cast out the evil one completely.

32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
34 The people answered Him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?”
35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.


Christ Crucified and Risen gives those who gather in His Name power to cast out the prince of this world until Jesus returns and casts him out completely.

 

[pat34lee]

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

v10 describes the ministry of Christ, the kingdom of God, triumphant over Satan, which is what His disciples were now experiencing as Christ taught in Luke 10.

If he was thrown down by Yeshua, who accused the brethren after his ascension?
Satan is still there today, calling our sins out in front of Yahweh.

 

[pat34lee]

On John in the OP.

Matthew Henry's Commentary
"(1.) That by the death of Christ Satan should be conquered (John 12:31): Now is the judgment. He speaks with a divine exultation and triumph. “Now the year of my redeemed is come, and the time prefixed for breaking the serpent’s head, and giving a total rent to the powers of darkness; now for that glorious achievement: now, now, that great work is to be done which has been so long thought of in the divine counsels, so long talked of in the written word, which has been so much the hope of saints and the dread of devils.” The matter of the triumph is, [1.] That now is the judgment of the world; krisis, take it as a medical term: “Now is the crisis of this world.” The sick and diseased world is now upon the turning point; this is the critical day upon which the trembling scale will turn for life or death, to all mankind; all that are not recovered by this will be left helpless and hopeless."
Bible Gateway passage: John 12 - King James Version

(You may have to search for the commentary from the link above)

 

[Eloy Craft]

something peculiar going on in this exchange Jesus and this crowd. He is talking about Himself to them. He is the Christ and He is going to be crucified. He tells them.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth,

There must be a reason for Jesus saying "And I, "if I am" He say's "I" twice in an unlike Him way.
He tells them He is going to die on the cross. This isn't what they expected so they ask:

“We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’?

Hey, if you're the Christ you are supposed to remain forever. and they know He calls Himself the Son of Man. So, why do they ask this next question

Who is this Son of Man?”

Why did they have no problem identifying Him as Son of Man, Then ask" who is the Son of Man?

 

[Douggg]

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

BAB2, what that verse means is that because of Jesus's death on the cross, man would no longer be under the penalty of sin - eternal destruction - which Satan could now be prosecuted, without God in equal justice destroy mankind as well.

What Satan did in the garden of Eden was to take out an insurance policy. He got man to become guilty of sin, just as he as the originator of sin is guilty of. Thus, in justice, God would have to destroy man for sin, if He were to destroy Satan for sin.

But when Jesus died on the cross that made it possible for God to destroy Satan without destroying mankind. As we have been justified in Christ.

So the prosecution of Satan and his destruction will begin to be carried out in the seven years, beginning with him being cast down to earth. He will know that he is being prosecuted because he comes down in great wrath, knowing he has but a little time.

Satan and his angels were no longer allowed to freely roam the third heaven when they rebelled, which was some time before man and this current form of the earth was created. It had to have been before the dinosaurs form of the earth, that was destroyed, because Satan and his angels got into altering the life forms back then to create the fearsome dinosaurs, like T-Rex.... purposely going against God.

In Genesis 1, the world was void and without form. i.e. no longer any life, and no topographic features. It existed prior to this current form of the earth, but as a primordial world that had been decimated, because of Satan and his angels trafficking in violence..

 

[BABerean2]

So the prosecution of Satan and his destruction will begin to be carried out in the seven years, beginning with him being cast down to earth.

So you believe that Satan is now in heaven in the presence of God and Christ and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters???


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Nothing wicked can exist in the presence of a Holy God.

The beginning of Revelation chapter 12 is a history lesson including the fall of Satan and the birth and death of Christ.

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[Douggg]

So you believe that Satan is now in heaven in the presence of God and Christ and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters???

I answered that before. None of the rebellious angels were allowed to stay in the third heaven. Satan is not allowed free access to roam heaven as he pleases. He can appear with restricted access before the throne of God, presently.

Nothing wicked can exist in the presence of a Holy God.

I think you need to go back and re-read Job. Satan had restricted access back then.

The beginning of Revelation chapter 12 is a history lesson including the fall of Satan and the birth and death of Christ.

The first five verses of Revelation are historic to identify the woman in the rest of the Chapter as Israel.

Revelation 12 is the foundation chapter in the whole bible to base the end times timeline for the 7 years.

 

[BABerean2]

I think you need to go back and re-read Job. Satan had restricted access back then.

That was before the Son of God walked the face of the earth and before He defeated Satan at the Cross.


Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.



Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


We serve a victorious Savior, who has already triumphed over the enemy in the verse above.

Jesus Christ has already saved our immortal soul from the enemy.
Luke 10:19 says that the enemy cannot hurt us.
This is because we have been sealed.
In this way, Satan has been bound.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus Christ has already saved our immortal soul from the enemy.
Luke 10:19 says that the enemy cannot hurt us.
This is because we have been sealed.
In this way, Satan has been bound.

We are sealed, yes. But that does not mean that Satan has been bound. Because it says were are to put on the whole armor of God to protect against the wilds of the Devil. Who goes about like a roaring lion seeking who he can destroy.

He who is in us, is greater than he is in the world.

 

[BABerean2]

Who goes about like a roaring lion seeking who he can destroy.

This cannot include those who belong to Christ.

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[iamlamad]

We have seen much argument and confusion on this forum about the "binding" of Satan.

Many have belittled the Amill doctrine, without acknowledging the problems in their own system of interpretation.

Will the one who defeated sin and death at Calvary be conducting funeral services for 1,000 years after His return?

Do we find two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5, with one at verse 24 and another at verses 27-30?

Does Christ judge both the living and the dead at His return, as found in 2 Timothy 4:1?

If the judgment of the living occurs at His return as found in Matthew 25:31-46, how does this effect the Premill doctrine?

Why do we find "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, with reward for some and destruction for others?

Is the Book of Revelation in perfect chronological order, since we find Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19?

.........................................................

In the passage below Christ reveals when the ruler of this world was to be "cast out".

It would be near the time that He spoke these words.

It would be at Calvary, when He would be "lifted up from the earth".

What did Christ mean when He said the ruler of this world would "now" be "cast out"?


Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

.

Let's follow ALL scripture. Satan will NOT be cast down from the heavenlies until the exact point in time pinpointed by John in Revelation. And that time will be the 7th trumpet, which will sound at the middle of the FUTURE 70th week.

Of course, if you don't believe in a future 70th week, you are already so mixed up on the end times there is little hope you will ever know the truth until these things begin to happen.

 

[BABerean2]

Let's follow ALL scripture. Satan will NOT be cast down from the heavenlies until the exact point in time pinpointed by John in Revelation. And that time will be the 7th trumpet, which will sound at the middle of the FUTURE 70th week.

Of course, if you don't believe in a future 70th week, you are already so mixed up on the end times there is little hope you will ever know the truth until these things begin to happen.

I am just as mixed up as those that produced the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.
The following comes from that Bible.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.

 

[iamlamad]

I am just as mixed up as those that produced the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.
The following comes from that Bible.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.

"I am just as mixed up as those that produced the 1599 Geneva Bible"

I agree with you.